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Is it time to "sell the future"?????

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Old
02-15-2007, 09:54 PM
  #1
Dr_oil
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Is it time to "sell the future"?????

All the media, Lowe, Mctavish, most people on here all say "we can't sell the future" for a defenceman or to fill any holes we have.

I think maybe we need to sell it to an extent. By not over paying we still have no defenceman and we're going to miss the playoffs. I fail to see how this is going to get us anywhere. It is a very long shot and many years away before any of our kids turn into that passing strong D man we need so bad.

Should we continue to miss the playoffs just so that we don't "sell the future"????? What future are we holding onto so tight???? We haven't wanted to "sell the future" for quite some time now and we have been a borderline team the entire time. When does "the future" arrive?

Last year we gave up some future in Berwer and 2 kids with some potential for that big D man we needed and look what we got, a run to the cup final.

If selling the future means Hemsky, then I would probably agree not to do it. But other than that who is really NOT replaceable on this team? Smytty is amazing in so many ways but could we replace him in other ways??? Other teams survive without Ryan Smyth, couldn't we if it meant getting enough that we're a better team?

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02-15-2007, 10:00 PM
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No, this team is more than 1 or 2 pieces away from being a legit contender. Our core (Hemsky, Stoll, Horcoff, Smyth, and Torres) are all young enough to be solid contributors again next season.

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02-15-2007, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
No, this team is more than 1 or 2 pieces away from being a legit contender. Our core (Hemsky, Stoll, Horcoff, Smyth, and Torres) are all young enough to be solid contributors again next season.
asuming he signs

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02-15-2007, 10:08 PM
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Bryanbryoil
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Originally Posted by Q038 View Post
asuming he signs
If not, I believe that we'd get draft pick compensation, if not, that's $5 million to get 2 solid players, or 1 really good one.

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02-15-2007, 10:09 PM
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Teams probably want Hemsky for a defenseman. Last season, teams wanted Hemsky for a goalie. I believe Jason Gregor mentioned that the 'Yotes wanted Hemsky plus for Cujo.

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02-15-2007, 10:22 PM
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Dr_oil
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
No, this team is more than 1 or 2 pieces away from being a legit contender. Our core (Hemsky, Stoll, Horcoff, Smyth, and Torres) are all young enough to be solid contributors again next season.
Out of hthat list I would trade all but Hemsky and Stoll if it meant we got the peices we need to be good for years. If we had a true number one center coming up the system or coming via trade then Horcoff is also tradeable.

Look at the Lindros / Nordiquies / Flyers situation. The Nordiques were going nowhere fast until that trade. They got a lot of pieces to the puzzle that made them powerhouse for years. All attributed from one trade. Yes they were forced - not the point, yes we don' have a Lindros - again not the point. The point is we are mediacre and have been for years.

ITS TIME THAT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!! GET IT DONE!!!! Time for some risk finally.

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02-15-2007, 10:42 PM
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I think we trade a non roster player and the picks from anaheim, and we try adn get a guy who isn't a UFA and thus a peice of the future. In other words K lowe just needs to see what he can do, he is in a tough situations, I think the one thing people miss is the big massive X factor. THe fans, Oilers fans won't take rebuilding, they love to go for it, and I am not talking about you or me, I am talking about most fans. So K lowe has to think about revenue. To me no matter what he can't sell, I mean unless we lose every game untill the deadline he just can't admit we don't ahve a chance, oil fans won't accept that, and well then you lose season tickets. that is not acceptable. On the other hand if you get some one and make a run, but miss the playoffs by a few points, the season ticket holders stay. So even if we arn't going to make it, it can make sense to go for it any way, to ensure revenue for next year.

Any way, I would love to see like MAB for some one like Mara, and the first from anaheim for say brew, then we really dont' give up much.

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02-15-2007, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smyth2Hemsky View Post
Teams probably want Hemsky for a defenseman. Last season, teams wanted Hemsky for a goalie. I believe Jason Gregor mentioned that the 'Yotes wanted Hemsky plus for Cujo.
Schremp plus.

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02-15-2007, 11:03 PM
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No its all about growing some patience. Buffalo was and built up a solid young core with their picks and thats what its all about Im not about selling the future and destroying our franchise for years to come. People have to realize trading #25 really ****ed things up for Lowe and company also and it could take us or any other teams in the situation to rebound from that.

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02-15-2007, 11:04 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_oil View Post
All the media, Lowe, Mctavish, most people on here all say "we can't sell the future" for a defenceman or to fill any holes we have.

I think maybe we need to sell it to an extent. By not over paying we still have no defenceman and we're going to miss the playoffs. I fail to see how this is going to get us anywhere. It is a very long shot and many years away before any of our kids turn into that passing strong D man we need so bad.

Should we continue to miss the playoffs just so that we don't "sell the future"????? What future are we holding onto so tight???? We haven't wanted to "sell the future" for quite some time now and we have been a borderline team the entire time. When does "the future" arrive?

Last year we gave up some future in Berwer and 2 kids with some potential for that big D man we needed and look what we got, a run to the cup final.

If selling the future means Hemsky, then I would probably agree not to do it. But other than that who is really NOT replaceable on this team? Smytty is amazing in so many ways but could we replace him in other ways??? Other teams survive without Ryan Smyth, couldn't we if it meant getting enough that we're a better team?
Would you like to sell the future for the 8th playoff spot in the west again, or maybe even to come up one point short?

The Oilers have been on that cycle for too long now, drafting 12th-15th for the last 5 years in a row.

Some people think it's shameful to trade away veterans at this time of year when we're still in the playoff race but I disagree entirely. The Oilers brass assembled a team that had a chance, they gave the fans full value for their money over the first 60 games and if we dump some high-priced vets now we can see some of the prospects a bit more and the Oilers can get a higher spot in the draft than they've had in years. This isn't like the Pens and Caps teams of a few years ago that didn't even fake any interest at all in winning any games.

Just creeping into the playoffs year after year is starting to look like a wasted effort. Let's look fwd to the draft at least, and then a brighter future.

The Oilers have the Ducks' 1st rounder this year, right now it's looking like 24th or 25th, if the Oil drop to 25th overall we could have 3 picks in the top 35.

3 years from now we could have two of them playing their second season while we still have Torres, Hemsky, Cogs?, Schremp?, Chorney?, Greene, Smid, Stoll...


Last edited by Oi'll say!: 02-15-2007 at 11:09 PM.
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Old
02-16-2007, 12:25 PM
  #11
Dr_oil
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I didn't mean that we should finally trade assets to sneak into the playoffs this year. I mean trade what it takes to get the pieces we need to be good for years to come. All the good teams have that one player that stands out above the rest. Be it a goalie or someone in the top of the scoring race. We have neither. We had that elite player in pronger and look what we did. We are now back to where we have been for years without the elite player and we're back to fighting for the playoffs AGAIN.

What happened last year shows we're very close. I know some say Hemsky is THAT elite player we need. He may become it but he's not there yet.

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:33 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
No, this team is more than 1 or 2 pieces away from being a legit contender. Our core (Hemsky, Stoll, Horcoff, Smyth, and Torres) are all young enough to be solid contributors again next season.
Maybe a Pronger and Spacek type away but these players are extremely hard to get. I would say we are about 4-5 very good players away.

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:51 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Boozers View Post
No its all about growing some patience. Buffalo was and built up a solid young core with their picks and thats what its all about Im not about selling the future and destroying our franchise for years to come. People have to realize trading #25 really ****ed things up for Lowe and company also and it could take us or any other teams in the situation to rebound from that.

One possible factor is that this team was criticised for a long time on their drafting record - and rightfully so. I think that Lowe and company are a bit hard-headed about that, and are therefore a little more reluctant than most to trade away their picks from the last 4-5 years.

Also, Lowe is patient, and I don't really have a problem with that. Oilers fans are still remembering the great run last postseason, but with the changes that this team has undergone, people have to realize that missing the playoffs for one year is not the end of the world. Lowe probably could have upgraded the defence this year if he'd been willing to give up Hemsky, Stoll, Greene, 1st round picks, and assets like that. I for one am glad he didn't overpay. Missing the playoffs, having a good draft and adding an offensive d-man in the summer (to this team that has a great young core) will make this team better next year.

People throw around names like Torres and Lupul in trade talks all the time, but these guys are still young enough so that their best years are likely right around the corner. The Oilers offence didn't live up to the billing this year... that doesn't mean that we start over. It means we tweak here and there, address our weaknesses (puck-moving d-man, PP QB) and come out flying next year.

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02-16-2007, 01:04 PM
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if our future means.. Torres, Lupul, Greene, Gilbert, Schremp, JFJ,Chorney,Young, Thoresen then go ahead and sell it for present. by present i dont mean UFAs but guys that can help us out next year.

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02-16-2007, 01:04 PM
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One sells the future to win the Stanley Cup. (a la Nashville and Forsberg).

One doesn't sell the future in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs.

The Oilers aren't a bad team. They were a team with an extremely young and inexperienced defense, and a team that lost Ethan Moreau, their most consistent and physical forward to injury.

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02-16-2007, 01:36 PM
  #16
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Man, I can't believe we are in this position. We have made the second round or better 3 times in like 15 years and we are still talking rebuilding. I am trying to be postitive but it is becoming very difficult. It is good that many of you are going that route but how long have we heard the terms "rebuilding" and "building through the draft"? As far back as Glen Sather. If I was to put up those kind of numbers after 10 years at my company I would have been gone along time ago. I am not saying firing anyone because I do think Lowe is smart and Mac T while he may be making some questionable is an OK coach. The problem I have is that obviously someone is not doing their job properly in order to have a horrible track record like the Oilers. I know the Flames/Oilers all went through the tough times as a small market team but look at the flames now. One superstar forward, a franchise goal tender, an all star defenceman, and one of the best supporting casts in hockey. Where are the Oilers?One year of success after scraping into the playoffs then back to hearing the words "rebuild"? Am I just slow or is there something not quite right here? I am sorry about the pessimism here guys, I truley am. I love the Oilers to death and I am too passionate of a fan to just sit around waiting all the time. How can you make the SCF and the next year you are 3 or 4 players away from even making a second round appearance? Man, I am not a GM,scout or coach obviously but the excuses are starting to wear thin. Not making the playoffs just makes me sick to think about. There is no better feeling in the world than Oilers hockey in April and it is unnacceptable to be in this position after all these years. Let's go boys!! Minny 5 more times. Let's try our best to get in!! Later everyone.

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02-16-2007, 01:58 PM
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Calgary is an interesting team to look at. SC Finalists in 04, first-round fodder in 06, looking strong in '07.

Now, I hear a lot of people saying the Calgary is going to be in trouble in a couple of years because their big guns (Iggy, RR and Kipper + ) will all be UFA at the same time and Phaneuf will be a RFA who could likely garner an offer sheet. But I don't buy it - I just don't see Sutter in panic mode. I think he "gets" that under this CBA he is going to at least have the opportunity to sign 27-year old UFA's if he has to replace those guys. Despite having an unimpressive stable of prospects, Calgary is still going to have the opportunity to compete.

In today's NHL, with the UFA age being so low and the salary cap on the rise, finding and signing the right UFA's (as well as signing your key players into their UFA years a la Hemsky) might well have become more important than a team's drafting ability.

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02-17-2007, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyP View Post
One sells the future to win the Stanley Cup. (a la Nashville and Forsberg).

One doesn't sell the future in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs.

The Oilers aren't a bad team. They were a team with an extremely young and inexperienced defense, and a team that lost Ethan Moreau, their most consistent and physical forward to injury.
Good call.

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Old
02-17-2007, 10:40 AM
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Calgary is an interesting team to look at. SC Finalists in 04, first-round fodder in 06, looking strong in '07.

Now, I hear a lot of people saying the Calgary is going to be in trouble in a couple of years because their big guns (Iggy, RR and Kipper + ) will all be UFA at the same time and Phaneuf will be a RFA who could likely garner an offer sheet. But I don't buy it - I just don't see Sutter in panic mode. I think he "gets" that under this CBA he is going to at least have the opportunity to sign 27-year old UFA's if he has to replace those guys. Despite having an unimpressive stable of prospects, Calgary is still going to have the opportunity to compete.

In today's NHL, with the UFA age being so low and the salary cap on the rise, finding and signing the right UFA's (as well as signing your key players into their UFA years a la Hemsky) might well have become more important than a team's drafting ability.
See, I think Sutter gets it, which is why he's taking his shot now.

The only problem with building a team from 27 year old UFA's is the new CBA. UFA players (particularly the 27-30 year old variety) tend to command much higher salaries than RFA players. From a cap management perspective, teams need to keep a constant supply of young, talented players playing above their salary to help manage the cap.

Can you build an entire team from 27 year old UFA's? Probably. Can you fit them under the cap, where another team can offer more salary due to having younger RFA players actively contributing on the roster?

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Old
02-17-2007, 10:46 AM
  #20
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If I was GM, I would build my team around these players.

Torres
Lupul
Stoll
Hemsky
Greene
Smid
Gilbert
Chorney
Cogliano
Thoresen
Moreau

Everyone else I would put on the market and see what comes the Oilers way for return.

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Old
02-17-2007, 02:32 PM
  #21
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I'll say it again, I'd rather do nothing than trade any of our legit prospects or young talent for a rental. If its a youngster for a solid, signed vet... possibly depending on the players involved.

Doing a deal like the Flames did is a HUGE mistake. I really think it hurt thier chemistry, besides the fact that the 07-08 Flames are a less deep team for it. At least the Flames can say they're going for it this year. For the Oilers to say the same thing would be lunacy.

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02-17-2007, 03:01 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by jcoldwell View Post
If I was GM, I would build my team around these players.

Torres
Lupul
Stoll
Hemsky
Greene
Smid
Gilbert
Chorney
Cogliano
Thoresen
Moreau

Everyone else I would put on the market and see what comes the Oilers way for return.
I wouldn't go to war with Torres or Lupul. I wouldn't want any young player coming up and watching them play and think that they exemplify Oiler hockey. My list go something like:

Hemsky
Horcoff
Stoll
Pisani
Moreau
Greene
Smid
Pouliot

And the quality of our prospects isn't such that I would slot any of them into "franchise building" roles just yet.

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Old
02-17-2007, 04:41 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
If not, I believe that we'd get draft pick compensation, if not, that's $5 million to get 2 solid players, or 1 really good one.
There is no draft pick compensation for UFA's in the new CBA agreement.

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02-17-2007, 05:43 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Russian Rocket View Post
There is no draft pick compensation for UFA's in the new CBA agreement.

correct

and it is not time to sell the future

oilers still need to get a few more pieces together

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Old
02-17-2007, 07:13 PM
  #25
Tyrolean
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
I wouldn't go to war with Torres or Lupul. I wouldn't want any young player coming up and watching them play and think that they exemplify Oiler hockey. My list go something like:

Hemsky
Horcoff
Stoll
Pisani
Moreau
Greene
Smid
Pouliot

And the quality of our prospects isn't such that I would slot any of them into "franchise building" roles just yet.
I was going to say the same think in a way. I really do not like Lupul and Torres. We can get better complete players if we trade these 2.

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