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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Rank the top 8.

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Old
02-26-2014, 01:27 AM
  #101
Esko6
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Team Canada with a few injuries to the top guys is like Team USA in basketball losing a couple of players, they still win on paper every time.

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02-26-2014, 03:49 AM
  #102
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The question is, what exactly are we ranking here? If we are looking at the strength of the best national team that each country can currently ice, we needn't look any further than the final standings of the Olympic men's tournament:

1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. Finland
4. United States
5. Russia
6. Czech Republic
7. Slovenia
8. Latvia


An analysis of each national team's depth and performance since the last Olympics? Canadians will quibble, but I think that the IIHF world rankings are pretty fair in that regard:

1. Sweden
2. Finland
3. Canada
4. Russia
5. Czech Republic
6. United States
7. Switzerland
8. Slovakia


A more long-term ranking of the relative strength of the teams that each country has been able assemble for best-on-best tournaments? Well, let's take a look at how the teams did at the Olympics since the NHL started participating (I'm sorry, I personally don't consider the World Cups that have been played to date as fair, legitimate tournaments... but if you do, please feel free to include them in your rankings):

1. Canada (3 golds)
2. Sweden (1 gold, 1 silver)
3. Finland (1 silver, 3 bronze)
4. Czech Republic (1 gold, 1 bronze)
5. USA (2 silver)
6. Russia (1 silver, 1 bronze)
7. Slovakia
8. Switzerland

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02-26-2014, 04:46 AM
  #103
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As far as WJC performance, it's not necessarily worthwhile to draw any serious conclusions about the state of hockey in each country based on these results... but just for fun, a ranking of the performance over the past 5 years and 10 years:

5 years:
1. Sweden (1 gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze)
2. USA (2 gold, 1 bronze)
3. Russia (1 gold, 1 silver, 2 bronze)
4. Canada (2 silver, 1 bronze)
5. Finland (1 gold)
6. Switzerland (4 quarterfinals, 1 semifinal)
7. Czech Republic (3 quarterfinals)
8. Slovakia (2 quarterfinals)

10 years:
1. Canada (5 gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze)
2. Russia (1 gold, 4 silver, 4 bronze)
3. Sweden (1 gold, 4 silver, 1 bronze)
4. USA (2 gold, 2 bronze)
5. Finland (1 gold, 1 bronze)
6. Czech Republic (1 bronze)
7. Switzerland (4 quarterfinals, 1 semifinal)
8. Slovakia (3 quarterfinals, 1 semifinal)

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02-26-2014, 07:27 AM
  #104
daver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slitty View Post
An analysis of each national team's depth and performance since the last Olympics? Canadians will quibble, but I think that the IIHF world rankings are pretty fair in that regard:

1. Sweden
2. Finland
3. Canada
4. Russia
5. Czech Republic
6. United States
7. Switzerland
8. Slovakia
So we are told that Canada's depth is the only reason why we won this year so handily in a weak best-on-best but yet it's still not good enough in your depth rankings. Interesting.

I like the WHC's for what they are but as long they used to rank countries, be prepared for the usual ridicule.

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02-26-2014, 12:40 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Cilisi View Post
This is an okay list, but I'm not so sure about your summary for Team Sweden. I should think it was obvious that we're trending upwards; the whole "going to lose alot of high end players in the coming years" has been true for... well... as long as we've played hockey. As has it been true for any hockey nation with any talented players, ever. The only way that statement can suggest a downwards trend is if it's followed by "...and there is insufficient/no new talent coming up through the system."

However, I am pleased to say that we've got a junior program actually worth the name nowadays, so it's not like we're just losing and not gaining. At this point I feel we're replenishing our ranks with talented young players at a faster rate than we're losing veterans. Or at the very least we're gaining and losing at an even pace. It might be more fair to say that Sweden isn't really trending at all, in that case.
Fair enough. Just seeing Zetterberg, Franzen and the Sedins all in their mid-30's makes me think they are trending downwards. Its not that young players aren't coming up the ranks but there is no denying, well at least I find, that Sweds takes longer to reach their full potential. So their may be a period where the next wave isnt quite there yet... that being said Karlsson, OEL, and Landeskog are all great players already...

Sweden will always be in the conversation as top-2 in the world so I have no doubt they will continue to develop elite level players.

Question: Not that Henrik is old but are their any goaltenders on the way that could ever attempt to reach the hieghts of the King?

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02-26-2014, 01:13 PM
  #106
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Really so many ways to do it. Based on both recent- and most consistent accomplishment- it probably makes sense to place Sweden and Finland ahead of the United States (and Russia).

That said- I went to high school and played hockey in Canada and talk to several Canadian hockey fans on a weekly basis. I honestly think Canadians fear (and yes, respect) Team USA the most and consider them their biggest threat. The reality is that Team USA is the only team to beat Canada (on Canadian ice no less) during this back-to-back Olympic Gold Medal run that they're on. Additionally- the two Canadian victories over the USA have been 1 goal affairs- including an OT insta-classic in the 2010 GMG. Lastly- there is a kind of American goaltender "bug-a-boo" of sorts at work in the rivalry with guys like Richter, Miller and now Quick all elevating their play to potentially game-stealing levels against Canada going back to World Cup '96. That definitely colors how Canadians view potential match-ups with the Americans IMHO. Anyway, add it all together- and I can see a reasonable case for USA being #2 in many people's minds- even if they lack the consistency and results that Sweden and Finland have displayed.

No problem with anybody ranking Sweden and Finland higher though. I get it. I just think it's a case that- rightly or wrongly- Team USA (and Russia for that matter) are more feared when they have their act together...

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02-26-2014, 01:19 PM
  #107
McGuillicuddy
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Originally Posted by Slitty View Post
As far as WJC performance, it's not necessarily worthwhile to draw any serious conclusions about the state of hockey in each country based on these results.
My observation on HFBoards is that this is only true when Canada is winning the WJHCs. If Canada is not winning then the WJC is a very important metric of hockey supremacy.


Last edited by McGuillicuddy: 02-26-2014 at 01:26 PM.
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Old
02-26-2014, 02:06 PM
  #108
HajdukSplit
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1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. Finland
4. USA
5. Russia
6. Czech Republic
7. Switzerland
8. Slovakia (considered keeping them off but can't really make an argument for Latvia/Belarus at the moment)

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Old
02-26-2014, 02:22 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuillicuddy View Post
My observation on HFBoards is that this is only true when Canada is winning the WJHCs. If Canada is not winning then the WJC is a very important metric of hockey supremacy.
Haha...very true.

In my opinion the juniors tournaments should not matter at all (and since Finland is the current champ, I would have a good reason to claim it does). It only represents a crop of guys from each country born in the same 2+ years time span. It's not very indicative of anything else. Great for scouts etc of course, and always great to see international tournaments even if it is kids.

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Old
02-26-2014, 02:31 PM
  #110
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1. Canada (no arguments needed)
2. Sweden (Great individuals+recent results)
3. Finland (Not the greatest individuals but maybe the best TEAM)
4. USA (Great individuals and decent results lately)
5. Russia (Huge potential but "never" gets it together as a TEAM)
6. Czech Republic (Not as great anymore as it used to be)
7. Slovakia (Still some good individuals)
8. Switzerland (Good goaltending and they do well with their gameplan)

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02-26-2014, 02:53 PM
  #111
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Canada

Sweden
USA
Russia
Finland

Czech Republic
Slovakia
Switzerland

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02-26-2014, 05:59 PM
  #112
hudson bay rules
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Canada
USA
Sweden
Finland
Russia
dogs breakfast

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02-26-2014, 06:00 PM
  #113
hudson bay rules
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Any Fins ranking Finland higher or lower than 3rd?

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03-03-2014, 05:02 AM
  #114
Exarz
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1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. Finland
4. Russia
5. USA
6. Czech Republic
7. Switzerland
8. Slovakia

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03-05-2014, 07:24 PM
  #115
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1. Canada (No doubt, no argument)
2. Sweden(pretty good depth, always seems to be in the final of any tournament)
3. Finland (the Perpetual third place team, not a lot of great individuals, but a great TEAM)
4. USA (always a contender, but rarely wins)
5. Russia (they win many World Championships, but can't get it done best on best)
6. Czech Republic (their best are aging, but they can still get it done, not what they used to be)
7. Switzerland (defence and goaltending is good enough to beat anyone, but their offence is not)
8. Slovakia (have aged like their Czech brothers, but their lack of depth makes the aging of their stars that much worse)

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03-05-2014, 08:10 PM
  #116
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If I look at the history of the sport in the country, individual players talent, numbers of players, numbers of ice-rinks, level of "national" leagues, interest of the sport, number of medals in many different tournaments etc. and adds it all together I would come up with this conclusion.

1. Canada
2. USA
3/4. Russia
4/3. Sweden
5. Finland
6. Czech. Republic
7/8. Switzerland
8/7. Slovakia

And after Switzerland and Slovakia we have teams like Germany, Belarus, Norway, Denmark, Ukraine and France that fights for the 9th to 14th spot in my mind. With history and all in mind I'd put Belarus as 9th and then perhaps Ukraine at 10th. Germany, Denmark and Norway I'd say are very equal. But since both Belarus and Ukraine is performing so poorly for a long time now, I think that perhaps Germany, Denmark and Norway are ahead of them already. And judging by the most recent years I'd say perhaps 9th is Norway, 10th is Germany and 11th is Denmark. Followed by Belarus and Ukraine or France.

After the top 8th I think it gets more difficult to determine who's the better one, and I think the IIHF rankings here is a better measurement compared to the 8th best teams.

Hopefully that made some sense.

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Old
03-05-2014, 08:33 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuillicuddy View Post
My observation on HFBoards is that this is only true when Canada is winning the WJHCs. If Canada is not winning then the WJC is a very important metric of hockey supremacy.
Yeah, I've seen that, too. Funny thing is, most Canadian hockey fans (the real ones) are quite prepared to tip their cap to the other leading nations. I've never had a problem stating my admiration for the great soviet teams of the late 1970s and early 1980s. Leaving aside the occasional spitting and kicking (and spearing) incident, they played hockey the way I think it should be played (though I obviously still love our Canadian game). However, I have a real problem with the anti-Canadian bias on these boards. When Canada loses, it's a cause for celebration. When Canada wins, it's terrible for the game. That sort of attitude permeates right to the top of the EIHF (er, IIHF), too. Always has.

And that's the cause of the schism between North America (Canada) and the rest of the hockey world.

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03-05-2014, 08:40 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Tonelli View Post
Really so many ways to do it. Based on both recent- and most consistent accomplishment- it probably makes sense to place Sweden and Finland ahead of the United States (and Russia).

That said- I went to high school and played hockey in Canada and talk to several Canadian hockey fans on a weekly basis. I honestly think Canadians fear (and yes, respect) Team USA the most and consider them their biggest threat. The reality is that Team USA is the only team to beat Canada (on Canadian ice no less) during this back-to-back Olympic Gold Medal run that they're on. Additionally- the two Canadian victories over the USA have been 1 goal affairs- including an OT insta-classic in the 2010 GMG. Lastly- there is a kind of American goaltender "bug-a-boo" of sorts at work in the rivalry with guys like Richter, Miller and now Quick all elevating their play to potentially game-stealing levels against Canada going back to World Cup '96. That definitely colors how Canadians view potential match-ups with the Americans IMHO. Anyway, add it all together- and I can see a reasonable case for USA being #2 in many people's minds- even if they lack the consistency and results that Sweden and Finland have displayed.

No problem with anybody ranking Sweden and Finland higher though. I get it. I just think it's a case that- rightly or wrongly- Team USA (and Russia for that matter) are more feared when they have their act together...
The Russians have an idiosyncratic and unpredictable nature to their game, some terrific top-end talent, and always get "up" for Canada. They've had better teams than Canada in recent WJHCs.

But the Americans, because of their wealth, because of the strong support of the NHL, because of the USNTDP (and all the money it gets from the NHL), and because of their population base, are probably the country Canada looks to as the most likely big rival moving forward.

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Old
03-05-2014, 09:03 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Tonelli View Post
Really so many ways to do it. Based on both recent- and most consistent accomplishment- it probably makes sense to place Sweden and Finland ahead of the United States (and Russia).

That said- I went to high school and played hockey in Canada and talk to several Canadian hockey fans on a weekly basis. I honestly think Canadians fear (and yes, respect) Team USA the most and consider them their biggest threat. The reality is that Team USA is the only team to beat Canada (on Canadian ice no less) during this back-to-back Olympic Gold Medal run that they're on. Additionally- the two Canadian victories over the USA have been 1 goal affairs- including an OT insta-classic in the 2010 GMG. Lastly- there is a kind of American goaltender "bug-a-boo" of sorts at work in the rivalry with guys like Richter, Miller and now Quick all elevating their play to potentially game-stealing levels against Canada going back to World Cup '96. That definitely colors how Canadians view potential match-ups with the Americans IMHO. Anyway, add it all together- and I can see a reasonable case for USA being #2 in many people's minds- even if they lack the consistency and results that Sweden and Finland have displayed.

No problem with anybody ranking Sweden and Finland higher though. I get it. I just think it's a case that- rightly or wrongly- Team USA (and Russia for that matter) are more feared when they have their act together...
The American USNTDP is very strong and HC would do well to emulate it.

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03-09-2014, 10:36 PM
  #120
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1. Canada
2. USA
3. Sweden
4. Finland
5. Russia
6. Czech Republic
7. Switzerland
8. Slovakia
9. Kopitar
10. Norway

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Old
04-21-2014, 12:38 PM
  #121
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1. Canada - filthy rich with depth in all positions (goalie probably ranked lowest, but that could change in 5-10years)
2.Russia - you may think why I'm choosing Russia second but overall but in international (other team being Sweden) are consistent in being in the top 3 or 4 in a tournament
3.Sweden - once a dark horse, always a dark house! Sweden sometimes is under estimated and that is probably a wrong thing to think , have really great players
4.Finland - with Selanne and other older players that play on the NT soon to retire the future seems bright for the young Finnish stars Barkov,Mikael Granlund,Ristolainen, etc. are probably going to be the core
5.USA - Besides winning the wjc in 2010 and 2013, USA usually disappoint or come so close to gold but just don't win it, but do have good depth like the Canadians
6.Czech Rep. - Have lots of old players, but I hope young guns like Palat,Hertl,Mrazek,Voracek(he is 24 or 23 which is not that old) take the bull by the horns and steer this ship in The right direction
7.Switzerland - have a good mix of young and old, very skilled forwards, usually play an underdog role and excel at it , came close to winning the whc in 2013, let's hope they can do something shocking again
8.Lots of old players and seem to be on the decline of being a good team but there's hope with Tatar who is a beast and will be a force to be reckoned with at future international tourneys
I based my ranking on the 3 major international tournaments I know of (Olympics,wjc,whc)

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04-21-2014, 12:50 PM
  #122
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1. Canada
2. Sweden
3,4 Finland / Usa
5,6 Russia / Czech Republic
7. Switzerland / Slovakia

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04-21-2014, 03:50 PM
  #123
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Sweden
Canada
Finland
U.S.
Russia
Czech Republic
Switzerland
Slovakia
Austria? Slovenia?

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Old
04-22-2014, 01:19 AM
  #124
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Canada
Sweden
Finland
Russia
Usa
Czech
Slovakia
Swiss

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04-22-2014, 12:41 PM
  #125
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1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. Finland
4. USA
5. Russia
6. Czech Rep
7. Switzerland
8. Slovakia

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