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Coots: Sean Couturier

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Old
03-06-2014, 09:58 AM
  #926
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If Couts finishes with over 40 points I can see him top 10 in Selke voting this year.

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03-06-2014, 10:10 AM
  #927
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Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
If Couts finishes with over 40 points I can see him top 10 in Selke voting this year.
I don't really know how they measure Selke finalists.

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Old
03-06-2014, 10:13 AM
  #928
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I don't really know how they measure Selke finalists.
Popularity contest based off reputation mostly. Voting is mostly done by people who do very little research.

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Old
03-06-2014, 10:25 AM
  #929
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Points seem to have a lot to do with the award. Datsyuk has deserved it in the past though.

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03-06-2014, 10:33 AM
  #930
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I mean Bergeron has to be up for it every year, right?

I look at him this year, dude has 22 goals and 39 pts, Its not a far cry from Couts 32, but their +/- isn't even close.

I have to think the guys in the running every year are Bergeron/Kesler/Datsyuk/Staal?

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Old
03-16-2014, 08:27 AM
  #931
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=7...d=nhl:topheads

Nice article on Couts from nhl.com

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Old
03-16-2014, 09:50 AM
  #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
I mean Bergeron has to be up for it every year, right?

I look at him this year, dude has 22 goals and 39 pts, Its not a far cry from Couts 32, but their +/- isn't even close.

I have to think the guys in the running every year are Bergeron/Kesler/Datsyuk/Staal?
Toews.

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Old
03-16-2014, 09:25 PM
  #933
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I don't really know how they measure Selke finalists.
Those awards don't come in orange and black

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Old
03-17-2014, 01:08 AM
  #934
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I don't really know how they measure Selke finalists.
It's definitely different in today's game than it was in the past; historically the trophy has truly gone to the best defensive forward.

Some time in the last generation it morphed into more of a "best two-way player" trophy, though the winners certainly are top tier defensive forwards.

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Old
03-17-2014, 05:47 AM
  #935
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This was posted on the Main Board. I would like to see a Top5-10 list based on these stats.


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Old
03-17-2014, 07:16 AM
  #936
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Well if Toews is in the conversation, the trophy is already decided.

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Old
03-17-2014, 09:34 AM
  #937
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Couturier better get some votes, but he won't get near winning it with Toews scoring at close to a PPG again.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=24962

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Old
03-17-2014, 09:40 AM
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Well if Toews is in the conversation, the trophy is already decided.
True

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Old
03-17-2014, 02:08 PM
  #939
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IMO this years Selke so far would be:

Bergeron
Kopitar

Hossa
Steen
Toews
Plekanec
Staal
Couturier
Kulemin
Backes
Vermette
Fisher
Turris
Cogliano
Kesler
Fisher
Read
Johansen
Little
O'Reilly

Though Marleau, Couture, Richards, Legwand, Landeskog could easily be in this group as well. Very hard to choose.

that would be my top 20... the only order being 1 and 2! Bergeron or Kopitar should win. The rest are kind of interchangeable depending on what you look at... ofc some guys are going to be nearer 5 than 20... but the distinctions are not as big IMO after the top 2.

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03-17-2014, 03:19 PM
  #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
IMO this years Selke so far would be:

Bergeron
Kopitar

Hossa
Steen
Toews
Plekanec
Staal
Couturier
Kulemin
Backes
Vermette
Fisher
Turris
Cogliano
Kesler
Fisher
Read
Johansen
Little
O'Reilly

Though Marleau, Couture, Richards, Legwand, Landeskog could easily be in this group as well. Very hard to choose.

that would be my top 20... the only order being 1 and 2! Bergeron or Kopitar should win. The rest are kind of interchangeable depending on what you look at... ofc some guys are going to be nearer 5 than 20... but the distinctions are not as big IMO after the top 2.
Very good list, I'd agree with most of it I think. But just out of curiosity, are you basing this off of pure defensive ability, or combined offense + defense?

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Old
03-17-2014, 03:21 PM
  #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf View Post
Very good list, I'd agree with most of it I think. But just out of curiosity, are you basing this off of pure defensive ability, or combined offense + defense?
A bit of both... hence why guys like Boyd Gordon are not in... though he would be if it was pure D. Though not as much O bias as the Selke voters will have.

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:30 PM
  #942
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Ok. So on Hockey Reference, I found that you can split out stats.

Crosby's Career Pts vs the Flyers is 74
Malkin's Career Pts vs the Flyers is 58

Couturier's First season with the Flyers was '11-'12

Crosby's PPG before Couturier was: 1.7
Malkins PPG before Couturier was: 1.4

Crosby's PPG after Couturier is: 1.09
Malkins PPG after Couturier is: 1.15

I could've done this completely wrong, but I think Appleyard could confirm or correct.

Sorry, but this is obviously vs the Flyers.

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:40 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Ok. So on Hockey Reference, I found that you can split out stats.

Crosby's Career Pts vs the Flyers is 74
Malkin's Career Pts vs the Flyers is 58

Couturier's First season with the Flyers was '11-'12

Crosby's PPG before Couturier was: 1.7
Malkins PPG before Couturier was: 1.4

Crosby's PPG after Couturier is: 1.09
Malkins PPG after Couturier is: 1.15

I could've done this completely wrong, but I think Appleyard could confirm or correct.

Sorry, but this is obviously vs the Flyers.
This might be a little loaded - I seem to remember Crosby really beating the hell out of us in '06-'07, which might be skewing the numbers.

Not to take away from what you're trying to show - Couturier has had a major impact in Pens vs Flyers games. In fact I think he's done better than the stats you're using here suggest. I don't know where to look for it, but their numbers, when Couts is on the ice at even strength, were very surprising when I last saw it.

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:43 PM
  #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
IMO this years Selke so far would be:

Bergeron
Kopitar

Hossa
Steen
Toews
Plekanec
Staal
Couturier
Kulemin
Backes
Vermette
Fisher
Turris
Cogliano
Kesler
Fisher
Read
Johansen
Little
O'Reilly

Though Marleau, Couture, Richards, Legwand, Landeskog could easily be in this group as well. Very hard to choose.

that would be my top 20... the only order being 1 and 2! Bergeron or Kopitar should win. The rest are kind of interchangeable depending on what you look at... ofc some guys are going to be nearer 5 than 20... but the distinctions are not as big IMO after the top 2.
on a list THAT long, you could have included one Tyler Bozak maybe

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:47 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Funf View Post
This might be a little loaded - I seem to remember Crosby really beating the hell out of us in '06-'07, which might be skewing the numbers.

Not to take away from what you're trying to show - Couturier has had a major impact in Pens vs Flyers games. In fact I think he's done better than the stats you're using here suggest. I don't know where to look for it, but their numbers, when Couts is on the ice at even strength, were very surprising when I last saw it.
Points scored by years for both (to help):

Crosby:
14
16
7
9
10
6

Malkin:
9
15
7
8
4


I did PPG because of Crosby's injuries.

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:58 PM
  #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Points scored by years for both (to help):

Crosby:
14
16
7
9
10
6

Malkin:
9
15
7
8
4


I did PPG because of Crosby's injuries.
Ah, gotcha. And ouch, '06-'07 WAS as ugly as I remembered...

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Old
03-18-2014, 09:56 PM
  #947
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on a list THAT long, you could have included one Tyler Bozak maybe
If Appleyard didn't include him he doesn't belong.

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Old
03-19-2014, 07:43 AM
  #948
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Holy crap has this kid turned into something special.

I'm not a big corsi guy, but head to head against Toews he was 14/7. The 21 year old, doubled up the 2 time cup champ + reigning Selke winner.

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Old
03-19-2014, 08:38 AM
  #949
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Holy crap has this kid turned into something special.

I'm not a big corsi guy, but head to head against Toews he was 14/7. The 21 year old, doubled up the 2 time cup champ + reigning Selke winner.
To me, he's the absolute crystal clear second best player on the team at this stage. It's unbelievable how noticeable he is over the last couple of months at both ends of the ice.

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Old
03-19-2014, 09:04 AM
  #950
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To me, he's the absolute crystal clear second best player on the team at this stage. It's unbelievable how noticeable he is over the last couple of months at both ends of the ice.
If he can continue to add good weight to his frame, and incrementally improve his foot speed, he can be an elite player in this league for a decade or so.

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