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Old
03-06-2014, 05:27 PM
  #151
dulzhok
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Originally Posted by jwhouk View Post
bingo.
Nobody said jarnkrok is going back to Sweden. There apparently are some founded rumors he was considering it if he didn't a shot.

I just hope Poile has done his homework to really get a pulse for this player. While Zidlicky worked out, there are other examples where we didn't get a good read a player with question marks-- Karalahti and Radulov come to mind.

But yes, if he bolts the board will be in outrage. I'm more concerned with how he will play. Half a point in the AHL as a 22 year old is MEH. Let's hope there's more than meets the stats. If we got a good young player for Legwand, that's more than anyone could hope for. But it's going to take a while to sort out that "IF".

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03-06-2014, 05:29 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Hartnell, Santorelli, Peverly, Legwand, Radulov
Hartnell averaged over 20 goals per season in his last three seasons as a Pred (including one season where he only played 59 games). Santorelli had one good season after leaving the Preds but quickly returned to the same level of performance. Peverley had a season and a half of good offensive numbers on a Thrasher squad that sucked, then returned to similar PPG levels that he delivered as a Pred. Leggy is the median for 2nd forwards selected ... averaged over 17 goals per season from 05-06 through 12-13 (lockout shortened season) ... Radulov's one full season as a Pred saw him score 26 goals after 18 goals in 64 games in his rookie campaign.

So much for Trotz sucking the offense out of them. Empirical evidence does not support your position.

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03-06-2014, 06:38 PM
  #153
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I want to see what he can do with Forsberg on his wing. I'd love to see the two of them starring in the AHL playoffs together. Hopefully the Admirals will be able to secure a spot and we'll see the two of them tear it up.
I believe that the Admirals will have them together for Friday. They ate dinner together earlier in the season with some other Swedish players from their AHL teams.

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03-06-2014, 07:18 PM
  #154
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Wings fan coming in peace. You got a very good prospect in Jarnkrok. I think you're going to like this deal. And Eaves is a real character guy too. He's had a tough time with injuries but I'm really pulling for him to get it together and thought a move might be just the ticket for him.

I'm happy to get Legwand but I believe this trade works better for you guys

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03-06-2014, 07:33 PM
  #155
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I think the part I find the most amusing about this is the use of the word "when". Not "if" this backfires, "when" this backfires. As though it's a foregone conclusion and there's no point in believing any different.
I actually changed it from "if" to "when" to make a point. When Trotz grinds all the talent out of this kid he will run back to Sweden.

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03-06-2014, 09:38 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Hartnell averaged over 20 goals per season in his last three seasons as a Pred (including one season where he only played 59 games). Santorelli had one good season after leaving the Preds but quickly returned to the same level of performance. Peverley had a season and a half of good offensive numbers on a Thrasher squad that sucked, then returned to similar PPG levels that he delivered as a Pred. Leggy is the median for 2nd forwards selected ... averaged over 17 goals per season from 05-06 through 12-13 (lockout shortened season) ... Radulov's one full season as a Pred saw him score 26 goals after 18 goals in 64 games in his rookie campaign.

So much for Trotz sucking the offense out of them. Empirical evidence does not support your position.
This just isn't a fair representation of the facts IMO.... Aside from the obvious Radulov portion. Hartnell's career high goals in nashville was 25, followed by 22, and 18. He has hit 37, 30, 24, 24 since being in philadelphia all while averaging more assists every year then he did as a career high in Nashville. Hart's has had 1 year where he scored only 14 goals but is on pace for well over 20 again this year and was on pace for around 22-24 goals in the lockout shortened season. Peverly had 20 points in 73 games over 3 seasons in Nashville. He then posted 3.5 straight seasons of very solid top 6 production. He absolutely received no chance here. Santorelli is in the same position and has played quite well in two different places now. He played in 32 games as a predator and had 4 points. We gave him away for what, a conditional 5th or 6th round pick? He immediately has a 20 goal season. To be fair, he sucked the next year/lockout year, but was doing exceedingly well for the Canucks this year.

Poile himself said this system likely held Legwand back offensively. Wake up and smell the coffee man.

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03-06-2014, 09:50 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
This just isn't a fair representation of the facts IMO.... Aside from the obvious Radulov portion. Hartnell's career high goals in nashville was 25, followed by 22, and 18. He has hit 37, 30, 24, 24 since being in philadelphia all while averaging more assists every year then he did as a career high in Nashville. Hart's has had 1 year where he scored only 14 goals but is on pace for well over 20 again this year and was on pace for around 22-24 goals in the lockout shortened season. Peverly had 20 points in 73 games over 3 seasons in Nashville. He then posted 3.5 straight seasons of very solid top 6 production. He absolutely received no chance here. Santorelli is in the same position and has played quite well in two different places now. He played in 32 games as a predator and had 4 points. We gave him away for what, a conditional 5th or 6th round pick? He immediately has a 20 goal season. To be fair, he sucked the next year/lockout year, but was doing exceedingly well for the Canucks this year.

Poile himself said this system likely held Legwand back offensively. Wake up and smell the coffee man.
So you're saying a first line of Santerelli-Peverly-Hartnell would be good? Is this the dream that Trotz killed? Ya right!

Hartnell is only one of significance. He did just fine here playing behind Kariya, Sullivan, others.

Coffee smells just fine.

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03-06-2014, 09:57 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
So you're saying a first line of Santerelli-Peverly-Hartnell would be good? Is this the dream that Trotz killed? Ya right!

Hartnell is only one of significance. He did just fine here playing behind Kariya, Sullivan, others.

Coffee smells just fine.
Heck no. That is a very mediocre line. I am simply saying those guys have done better than he is representing, Hartnell much more.

I know what you are selling that this is on Poile and not Trotz, but I disagree. This is a tag-team problem. They are of like mind when it comes to forwards, and it shows. These were Poile and Trotz's hand picked acquisitions this year, and the offense is abysmal.

That said, I do agree with you, the buck stops with Poile. He has to build the offense better, and he never really has.

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03-06-2014, 10:00 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
This just isn't a fair representation of the facts IMO.... Aside from the obvious Radulov portion. Hartnell's career high goals in nashville was 25, followed by 22, and 18. He has hit 37, 30, 24, 24 since being in philadelphia all while averaging more assists every year then he did as a career high in Nashville. Hart's has had 1 year where he scored only 14 goals but is on pace for well over 20 again this year and was on pace for around 22-24 goals in the lockout shortened season. Peverly had 20 points in 73 games over 3 seasons in Nashville. He then posted 3.5 straight seasons of very solid top 6 production. He absolutely received no chance here. Santorelli is in the same position and has played quite well in two different places now. He played in 32 games as a predator and had 4 points. We gave him away for what, a conditional 5th or 6th round pick? He immediately has a 20 goal season. To be fair, he sucked the next year/lockout year, but was doing exceedingly well for the Canucks this year.

Poile himself said this system likely held Legwand back offensively. Wake up and smell the coffee man.
Hartnell has definitely had his best goal scoring and point scoring seasons in Philadelphia, but his numbers, on the whole, aren't that much better than when he left the Preds.

With Preds (Full):
.21 gpg
.48 ppg

Though these included his first few seasons in the league, which naturally would be lower than what you would expect him to normalize at.

With Preds (last 3 seasons):
.319 gpg
.588 ppg

With Flyers
.305 gpg
.629 ppg

Factoring that level of production over an 82 game season, he would have averaged about 48.216 points with the Preds, and 51.578 points with the Flyers. Statistically, that is not a significant difference, and one could argue that simply his continued development as a player would have given him an increase of 3 points a season with the Preds. That's not to mention playing alongside the likes of Giroux, Richards, Carter, Jagr, and Briere, among others.

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Old
03-06-2014, 10:03 PM
  #160
jwhouk
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Maybe he needs Scottie Stevens to go over and tell him, "Hey, all those years ago you coulda kept me if you would have signed a 30-goal scorer."

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03-06-2014, 10:05 PM
  #161
dulzhok
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Heck no. That is a very mediocre line. I am simply saying those guys have done better than he is representing, Hartnell much more.
Hartnell has not done much better in Philly. He had a couple of better seasons playing with Jagr and Giroux, he also had dud seasons, including 11 points in 32 games last year when he was playing with lesser talent. As a whole, it's on par with his last 3 season here.

He's a 25g 50 point player in most situations. Hartnell's last season here he was on a 30g pace playing behind Kariya, Sullivan others. Put him with two of the best players in the world and give him tons of ice time he'll do more.

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03-07-2014, 07:21 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Hartnell has definitely had his best goal scoring and point scoring seasons in Philadelphia, but his numbers, on the whole, aren't that much better than when he left the Preds.

With Preds (Full):
.21 gpg
.48 ppg

Though these included his first few seasons in the league, which naturally would be lower than what you would expect him to normalize at.

With Preds (last 3 seasons):
.319 gpg
.588 ppg

With Flyers
.305 gpg
.629 ppg

Factoring that level of production over an 82 game season, he would have averaged about 48.216 points with the Preds, and 51.578 points with the Flyers. Statistically, that is not a significant difference, and one could argue that simply his continued development as a player would have given him an increase of 3 points a season with the Preds. That's not to mention playing alongside the likes of Giroux, Richards, Carter, Jagr, and Briere, among others.
Fair post. Hart's last 3 seasons were easily his best 3 in Nashville, with his shortened season pulling his numbers up significantly. To counter point, I think if you take out Hart's 14 goal season/down swing, then his numbers will shift even more one way in philly. I think it is fair to throw out 1 season out of what 5-6, especially given it was around the time the mike richards situation and his wife took place.

Be that as it may, anyone who watches Hartnell knows his game took a dramatic shift in Philadelphia vs in Nashville. He is a much more effective player in Philly than he was in Nashville. He was a caged animal here. He was released in Philadelphia.

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03-07-2014, 09:22 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Fair post. Hart's last 3 seasons were easily his best 3 in Nashville, with his shortened season pulling his numbers up significantly. To counter point, I think if you take out Hart's 14 goal season/down swing, then his numbers will shift even more one way in philly. I think it is fair to throw out 1 season out of what 5-6, especially given it was around the time the mike richards situation and his wife took place.

Be that as it may, anyone who watches Hartnell knows his game took a dramatic shift in Philadelphia vs in Nashville. He is a much more effective player in Philly than he was in Nashville. He was a caged animal here. He was released in Philadelphia.
I would say a big part of his somewhat improved performance is that he's grown up and matured. He was a spoiled brat when he was here. Not many on his side in the locker room.

Bottom line to all this is that to say Trotz sucks out the offense of a player is really a lame excuse. Players can't be offensive powers without help. How many teams has Trotz had that had the players to make a true offensive system. The couple of years he had that team they were near the top of the league in goal scoring and points.

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03-07-2014, 09:36 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Hartnell's career high goals in nashville was 25, followed by 22, and 18. He has hit 37, 30, 24, 24 since being in philadelphia all while averaging more assists every year then he did as a career high in Nashville. .
which simply show that Hartnell was a kid, we developed him in Nash, and did a darned-good job because he continued to improve.

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03-07-2014, 09:51 AM
  #165
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Again fair counter points. Harts was immature here. He has matured in Philly.

The counter of course is that his game was allowed to mature in Philly as it wasn't here in Nashville.

Trotzs system is rigidly defensive. Hartnell bucked at that to some degree. This cost him ice time and opportunity. He got more leeway and took his game up a notch on the flyers IMO.

I never claimed that Trotz sucked the offensive talent out of people, just disagreed with one post. I do think there is a lot of truth to our system squelching offensive creativity, but I think most would agre with that statement.

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03-07-2014, 11:36 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Again fair counter points. Harts was immature here. He has matured in Philly.

The counter of course is that his game was allowed to mature in Philly as it wasn't here in Nashville.

Trotzs system is rigidly defensive. Hartnell bucked at that to some degree. This cost him ice time and opportunity. He got more leeway and took his game up a notch on the flyers IMO.
Philly fans complain all the time of Hartnell's stupid penalties. Not to mention is probably falls down more than any player in the league.

He get plenty of opportunity here and was on pace for 30 his last season here. Could we really justify playing him over Kariya? We we were at least top 10 in every scoring category back then.

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03-07-2014, 11:40 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Philly fans complain all the time of Hartnell's stupid penalties. Not to mention is probably falls down more than any player in the league.

He get plenty of opportunity here and was on pace for 30 his last season here. Could we really justify playing him over Kariya? We we were at least top 10 in every scoring category back then.
Yes, he was younger and didn't have a history of getting KTFO repeatedly

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03-07-2014, 11:45 AM
  #168
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Yes, he was younger and didn't have a history of getting KTFO repeatedly
Kariya played all 82 games for us, both seasons. He scored a PPG pace.... Hartnell hasn't come close to...even playing with Jagr and Giroux all season season long on first PP unit. No, there is no justification of playing him over Kariya.

Oh and back then when we had decent foward talent (but not great), we were top 10 in every scoring category. More mythbusting that Trotz kills offensive talent.

Can kill a deer if there are no deer to kill.

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03-07-2014, 11:46 AM
  #169
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*Cant kill...*

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03-07-2014, 02:21 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Kariya played all 82 games for us, both seasons. He scored a PPG pace.... Hartnell hasn't come close to...even playing with Jagr and Giroux all season season long on first PP unit. No, there is no justification of playing him over Kariya.

Oh and back then when we had decent foward talent (but not great), we were top 10 in every scoring category. More mythbusting that Trotz kills offensive talent.

Can kill a deer if there are no deer to kill.
And even with all that depth and talent, we were one and done in the playoffs.

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03-07-2014, 04:07 PM
  #171
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http://section303.com/jarnkrok-puts-...o-sweden-52339

Jarnkrok dismisses the possibility of returning to Sweden, seems pretty excited for the opportunity.

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03-07-2014, 04:12 PM
  #172
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http://section303.com/jarnkrok-puts-...o-sweden-52339

Jarnkrok dismisses the possibility of returning to Sweden, seems pretty excited for the opportunity.
Nice!

Quote:
Jarnkrok has six points in his last three games but that was as a member of the Grand Rapids Griffins. Tonight, he’ll play his first game as a member of the Milwaukee Admirals and he’ll do so alongside fellow talented forward Filip Forsberg.

“We’re going to play him with Forsberg, for sure,” Milwaukee Head Coach Dean Evason said. “They’re both Swedes and they know each other. And then, after that, we’ll see.”
If any Ads fans can give us some updates on the game, it'd be much appreciated.

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03-07-2014, 04:23 PM
  #173
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I'm going to be watching the game, I'll check in if anything stands out.

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03-07-2014, 04:35 PM
  #174
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And even with all that depth and talent, we were one and done in the playoffs.
You referring to the year Vokoun went down before the playoffs?

While we had some talent, so did everyone else of note. And the contenders had more.

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03-07-2014, 04:36 PM
  #175
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Yes, any updates will be appreciated.

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