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How do we get better moving forward? No pun intended

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Old
02-28-2014, 04:26 PM
  #301
Drake744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Instead of trading Weber, what about trading Seth Jones for a young forward such as RNH?
Poile had Jones at #1 on our draft board. If he had Jones ranked ahead of Mackinnon and Barkov, I'd assume he'd also have him above RNH.

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02-28-2014, 07:07 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Instead of trading Weber, what about trading Seth Jones for a young forward such as RNH?
McDavid + top 4 defenseman/ best defense prospect would probably be the only logical thing Poile trades Jones for. Kid's going to be great.

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02-28-2014, 11:17 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Soundgarden View Post
McDavid + top 4 defenseman/ best defense prospect would probably be the only logical thing Poile trades Jones for. Kid's going to be great.
I would do it for McDavid straight up.

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03-07-2014, 02:30 AM
  #304
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I set and watch this team play and I think we have no top notch offensive talent. We have noone who can finish. I am about ready to pull my hair out. Scoring 1 goal a game is not going to cut it. I sure hope Weber and Rinne are patient, because this looks like a total rebuild to me. Moser scores the only goal in the last game so what do we do send him back to Milwaukee. I want to see Moser,Sissons,Forsberg,Jarnkrok playing here not Bourque,Eaves, Gaustad, and Clune. I want to see what we have. Could it be any worse losing 2-1 or 3-1 or 6-3 it is still a loss.

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03-07-2014, 03:36 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
I set and watch this team play and I think we have no top notch offensive talent. We have noone who can finish. I am about ready to pull my hair out. Scoring 1 goal a game is not going to cut it. I sure hope Weber and Rinne are patient, because this looks like a total rebuild to me. Moser scores the only goal in the last game so what do we do send him back to Milwaukee. I want to see Moser,Sissons,Forsberg,Jarnkrok playing here not Bourque,Eaves, Gaustad, and Clune. I want to see what we have. Could it be any worse losing 2-1 or 3-1 or 6-3 it is still a loss.

Eaves, Gaustad, and Clune are not the problem. These guys are not relied on night in and night out to score and provide the offensive punch for the team. The issue now is which 4th liners to keep. At this point there no one deserving to play top 6, Trotz has been blamed to no end but the reality is nobody can finish.

It is crucial right now to find out the guys that could be here next year with the emphasis on Jarnkrok, Watson and Beck these three due to age and years in development need to be looked at and quick. Otherwise we go to camp with question marks that can't be answered in preseason anymore. Preseason is mostly players trying to make a roster playing other players trying to make a roster. The timeframe on Watson is becoming more and more narrow hes now 22 and should be tearing up the AHL. Hes not and is likely not ready to make the jump. Jarnkrok will get a call-up pretty quick, he will get a game or two under his belt then should be here for a hard look. Do not expect to see him play more than 9 games for the big team since he has another year on his ELC.

The coaching staff needs to make a decision now about the abilities of the young guys if there ready or still need time. DP then must make some moves to bridge the team and fill the holes that are going to be created. Mosier,Sissons,Forsberg really should finish the year in the AHL it does no good to bring them here and crush there confidence because there not ready.

The offense is just a mess, if there is to be a coaching change it would be in the next 10 days IMO to allow the new coach to make his evaluations before the end of the year so he could recommend direction to the GM. So if Trotz is here two weeks from now the fire Trotz banter should slow because he will be here on opening day next season.

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03-07-2014, 05:57 AM
  #306
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I'm pretty much of the belief that Trotz isn't going anywhere until Poile is either fired by ownership or he retires. Frankly I don't see him being fired so you will see Trotz again next year.

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03-07-2014, 07:01 AM
  #307
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I can't believe that Del Zotto isn't seeing PP time. The combo of Ellis and Jones is not working.

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03-07-2014, 08:14 AM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Eaves, Gaustad, and Clune are not the problem. These guys are not relied on night in and night out to score and provide the offensive punch for the team. The issue now is which 4th liners to keep. At this point there no one deserving to play top 6, Trotz has been blamed to no end but the reality is nobody can finish.

It is crucial right now to find out the guys that could be here next year with the emphasis on Jarnkrok, Watson and Beck these three due to age and years in development need to be looked at and quick. Otherwise we go to camp with question marks that can't be answered in preseason anymore. Preseason is mostly players trying to make a roster playing other players trying to make a roster. The timeframe on Watson is becoming more and more narrow hes now 22 and should be tearing up the AHL. Hes not and is likely not ready to make the jump. Jarnkrok will get a call-up pretty quick, he will get a game or two under his belt then should be here for a hard look. Do not expect to see him play more than 9 games for the big team since he has another year on his ELC.

The coaching staff needs to make a decision now about the abilities of the young guys if there ready or still need time. DP then must make some moves to bridge the team and fill the holes that are going to be created. Mosier,Sissons,Forsberg really should finish the year in the AHL it does no good to bring them here and crush there confidence because there not ready.

The offense is just a mess, if there is to be a coaching change it would be in the next 10 days IMO to allow the new coach to make his evaluations before the end of the year so he could recommend direction to the GM. So if Trotz is here two weeks from now the fire Trotz banter should slow because he will be here on opening day next season.
I know it is not our fourth lines fault, I am just tired of this. Sorry.
I really do not see a fix that will not take 3-5 years unless something comes out of left field.

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03-07-2014, 08:55 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
I know it is not our fourth lines fault, I am just tired of this. Sorry.
I really do not see a fix that will not take 3-5 years unless something comes out of left field.
It is unfortunate but I agree. Turning this around is going to be a lengthy process. They rolled the dice on the young guys this year and it has been a disaster both the defense and the offense. The D could have used a little veteran help one only has to look at goals allowed and the PK to realize the D while very talented will have a few growning pains.

I have not been surprised at all by the offense before the season I was critized for being Debbie Downer because I offered that the offense had little chance of being competitive. Its not all that difficult take a look at the offense career numbers of each player if you add the goals up and come up short you have to think that each player is going to need to exceed there career highs to be competitive. They did not and have not been.

The brightest spot is Rinne seems to have no ill effects of the infection and has lost no mobility thank goodness for him and the team.

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Old
03-07-2014, 11:55 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
They rolled the dice on the young guys this year and it has been a disaster both the defense and the offense.
We mainly rolled the dice on expensive over-the-hill grinders. Or throwing 15 mil at a guy who was scratched in the playoffs.

Young guys like Smith who have been given more of chance this year have done well. Wilson is down. He's got to find consistency in his game, but with the trading of Legwand it looks like he's going to be given his chance to sink or swim.

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03-07-2014, 12:39 PM
  #311
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If I can remember right I'm not sure anyone thought this team was going to be anything awesome offensively ( well on the Preds boards). We all hoped that it wouldn't be bad but we knew there was a chance that would happen.

I think the thought at the start was that we would need Smith and Wilson to step up, Stalberg to basically replace what Erat was doing, and then hope Legwand, Fischer, and Horny did their thing or maybe just a bit more to even make it to the playoffs. Then we needed a healthy Rinne and the D corp to play well.

We end up with no Rinne, and pretty much Smith doing what we needed him to do. Looks like the thoughts were about right.

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03-07-2014, 01:02 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
If I can remember right I'm not sure anyone thought this team was going to be anything awesome offensively ( well on the Preds boards). We all hoped that it wouldn't be bad but we knew there was a chance that would happen.

I think the thought at the start was that we would need Smith and Wilson to step up, Stalberg to basically replace what Erat was doing, and then hope Legwand, Fischer, and Horny did their thing or maybe just a bit more to even make it to the playoffs. Then we needed a healthy Rinne and the D corp to play well.

We end up with no Rinne, and pretty much Smith doing what we needed him to do. Looks like the thoughts were about right.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1507265&page=2

This is just one thread not the one I was referring to nut there was some unrealistic expectations.

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03-07-2014, 02:13 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1507265&page=2

This is just one thread not the one I was referring to nut there was some unrealistic expectations.
from me in that thread.
Quote:
Hornqvist is our leading scorer.
Another defenseman in the East wins the Norris
Stalberg's season is a disappointment, as injuries stack against him.
Hendricks also struggles.
Smith does well and Spaling gets a passing grade.
Ellis gets the Blum treatment and is up and down before being traded for a 4th round pick.
Overall though, we're a good team and finish 8th or 9th.
Jones is legit and Josi takes another step to greatness.
Nystrom goes from whipping boy to crowd favorite.
Clune makes us forget about Tootoo.
I missed the Ellis progress, the rest isn't far off.

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03-07-2014, 02:23 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
from me in that thread.

I missed the Ellis progress, the rest isn't far off.
For the most part...not bad.

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03-07-2014, 03:37 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Eaves, Gaustad, and Clune are not the problem. These guys are not relied on night in and night out to score and provide the offensive punch for the team. The issue now is which 4th liners to keep. At this point there no one deserving to play top 6, Trotz has been blamed to no end but the reality is nobody can finish.

It is crucial right now to find out the guys that could be here next year with the emphasis on Jarnkrok, Watson and Beck these three due to age and years in development need to be looked at and quick. Otherwise we go to camp with question marks that can't be answered in preseason anymore. Preseason is mostly players trying to make a roster playing other players trying to make a roster. The timeframe on Watson is becoming more and more narrow hes now 22 and should be tearing up the AHL. Hes not and is likely not ready to make the jump. Jarnkrok will get a call-up pretty quick, he will get a game or two under his belt then should be here for a hard look. Do not expect to see him play more than 9 games for the big team since he has another year on his ELC.

The coaching staff needs to make a decision now about the abilities of the young guys if there ready or still need time. DP then must make some moves to bridge the team and fill the holes that are going to be created. Mosier,Sissons,Forsberg really should finish the year in the AHL it does no good to bring them here and crush there confidence because there not ready.

The offense is just a mess, if there is to be a coaching change it would be in the next 10 days IMO to allow the new coach to make his evaluations before the end of the year so he could recommend direction to the GM. So if Trotz is here two weeks from now the fire Trotz banter should slow because he will be here on opening day next season.
If Trotz is fired it will be in the offseason. They are not going to fire the only coach the franchise has ever seen in season. They will give him that respect.

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03-07-2014, 04:42 PM
  #316
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Outsider coming in peace... the Klein trade puzzled me... not because it was not good value... but because it was not any thing you really needed and Kleiner was your one non essential defender who could return a similar level of forward... sure there is the possibility Del Zotto gets flipped at the Draft for a winger/center but then the team who acquires him only has a short time to get him signed and his camp could use that as leverage (even as an RFA)

In any event that is where Poile needs to start... either sign a UFA puck mover for the second pair or trust that one of the kids can jump up and grab the role... and move MDZ for a forward

Suggestion- MDZ to PHI for Matt Read

Next step... more offense lol... now you may have to take on the odd unearned contract if you are looking for a younger offensive contributor... I am of course thinking Sam Gagner

Suggestion- Stalberg and Jarvinen for Gagner

Without having touched core players you have added two second line caliber forwards... not a bad start

Now for the big adds... Preds still a big trade chip... the 2014 1st... "unfortunately" your club has improved as of late... likely out of range of Reinhart Bennett or Dal Colle

However it is still very valuable... especially to a team in that range already... enter OTT

Suggestion- NSH 1st and Beck and Jonathan-Ismael Diaby to OTT for Spezza Cowen

Sens get another top seven pick... plus two good prospects.. Preds have some risk here that Spezza can jump ship next summer but they also get a young talent in Cowen back

Final piece... time to go shopping... Thomas Vanek is the big prize of course... let us say $7.5M...

Fin al roster

Vanek-Spezza-Hornqvist
Forsberg-Fisher-Smith
Wilson-Gagner-Read
Nystrom-Gaustad-Watson
Clune Bourque

Josi-Weber
Cowen-Jones
Ekholm-Ellis
Bartley

Rinne
Mazanec

$68.672M... right under the cap...

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Old
03-07-2014, 04:53 PM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
Outsider coming in peace... the Klein trade puzzled me... not because it was not good value... but because it was not any thing you really needed and Kleiner was your one non essential defender who could return a similar level of forward... sure there is the possibility Del Zotto gets flipped at the Draft for a winger/center but then the team who acquires him only has a short time to get him signed and his camp could use that as leverage (even as an RFA)

In any event that is where Poile needs to start... either sign a UFA puck mover for the second pair or trust that one of the kids can jump up and grab the role... and move MDZ for a forward

Suggestion- MDZ to PHI for Matt Read

Next step... more offense lol... now you may have to take on the odd unearned contract if you are looking for a younger offensive contributor... I am of course thinking Sam Gagner

Suggestion- Stalberg and Jarvinen for Gagner

Without having touched core players you have added two second line caliber forwards... not a bad start

Now for the big adds... Preds still a big trade chip... the 2014 1st... "unfortunately" your club has improved as of late... likely out of range of Reinhart Bennett or Dal Colle

However it is still very valuable... especially to a team in that range already... enter OTT

Suggestion- NSH 1st and Beck and Jonathan-Ismael Diaby to OTT for Spezza Cowen

Sens get another top seven pick... plus two good prospects.. Preds have some risk here that Spezza can jump ship next summer but they also get a young talent in Cowen back

Final piece... time to go shopping... Thomas Vanek is the big prize of course... let us say $7.5M...

Fin al roster

Vanek-Spezza-Hornqvist
Forsberg-Fisher-Smith
Wilson-Gagner-Read
Nystrom-Gaustad-Watson
Clune Bourque

Josi-Weber
Cowen-Jones
Ekholm-Ellis
Bartley

Rinne
Mazanec

$68.672M... right under the cap...

MDZ was what was needed because trading Klein opened a hole on D, plus it gave us a needed L-Handed D for balance, something that Nashville was short on.

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03-07-2014, 04:58 PM
  #318
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Poile acquired MDZ to slot in with Jones for the foreseeable future. With MDZ we get a left handed player who's young enough to still have room to grow and giving up Klein makes it possible to slide Jones right into the top 4 and develop chemistry with MDZ while he's still young, rather than acquiring someone three years from now. It's a move for the future, as was the Legwand and Erat trade. It makes total sense.

As or you proposals we have a top 10 possible top 5 pick this year, trading it for a 30+ oft injured player is counter-productive. We need to find our own forwards who can be big players for 10+ years on our own.

The Gagner trade would be a fleecing for us, but we don't need MDZ to go anywhere, especially for someone like Read.

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03-07-2014, 05:15 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
MDZ was what was needed because trading Klein opened a hole on D, plus it gave us a needed L-Handed D for balance, something that Nashville was short on.
Getting scoring here is way more important than balancing left and right handers. But doesn't surprise me, Poile is operating in his comfort zone.

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03-07-2014, 05:29 PM
  #320
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I want to hear from other people how long this rebuild,retool, or whatever you want to call it is going to take?

We need top three pieces here, how will we get them? If you say free agency, what gives you the idea anyone will come play here?

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03-07-2014, 05:45 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Getting scoring here is way more important than balancing left and right handers. But doesn't surprise me, Poile is operating in his comfort zone.
Of course we need more scoring that is obvious but the MDZ-Klein swap was done with the intent of growing the MDZ-Jones pairing. It allowed Seth to switch back to his natural side and gives him a young partner to play with going forward.

I understand why some people bash Poile, but I wonder how those people would have done things differently had they been in charge.

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03-07-2014, 05:51 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
I want to hear from other people how long this rebuild,retool, or whatever you want to call it is going to take?

We need top three pieces here, how will we get them? If you say free agency, what gives you the idea anyone will come play here?
Hopefully it doesn't take long but sports tend to go in cycles.

We've never been gifted a superstar forward nor have we been bad enough to land one in the draft. We all had high hopes for one of Mac/Drouin/Barkov this last draft but it didn't work out for us.

Could we have traded up, sure. But at what cost? Would you have given up last year's first AND this year's first which is most likely what the cost would have been for Barkov/Drouin? I know I wouldn't have. Neither player will be the dynamic gamebreaker that MacKinnon has the chance to be. I'd rather have stayed put with Jones and take our chances in this upcoming draft.

We know the Predators history in free agency. There just simply aren't many high quality players that make it to being a UFA any more which leads to the sub-par crop that we signed this last offseason. We have had "2" big UFA's (Kariya, Arnott) that signed with us as far as I recall in the existance of our franchise. We aren't going to be at the top of many UFA's list. Sure, we can offer someone insane money but it doesn't matter if they desire to play somewhere else.

Can we offer Vanek 8 million? Yes. Would it be dumb? IMO Yes.

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03-07-2014, 07:47 PM
  #323
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Vanek has been very open about wanting to sign in Minn. I wouldn't waste my time with him.

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03-07-2014, 08:45 PM
  #324
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In terms of "rebuilding", hockey takes the second longest of the "big four", behind baseball and ahead of football and basketball.

If you're down, it's going to take at least two-three years before you can be competitive again. (Baseball takes six-seven years, as a reference.)

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03-08-2014, 07:48 AM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
Outsider coming in peace... the Klein trade puzzled me... not because it was not good value... but because it was not any thing you really needed and Kleiner was your one non essential defender who could return a similar level of forward... sure there is the possibility Del Zotto gets flipped at the Draft for a winger/center but then the team who acquires him only has a short time to get him signed and his camp could use that as leverage (even as an RFA)

In any event that is where Poile needs to start... either sign a UFA puck mover for the second pair or trust that one of the kids can jump up and grab the role... and move MDZ for a forward

Suggestion- MDZ to PHI for Matt Read

Next step... more offense lol... now you may have to take on the odd unearned contract if you are looking for a younger offensive contributor... I am of course thinking Sam Gagner

Suggestion- Stalberg and Jarvinen for Gagner

Without having touched core players you have added two second line caliber forwards... not a bad start

Now for the big adds... Preds still a big trade chip... the 2014 1st... "unfortunately" your club has improved as of late... likely out of range of Reinhart Bennett or Dal Colle

However it is still very valuable... especially to a team in that range already... enter OTT

Suggestion- NSH 1st and Beck and Jonathan-Ismael Diaby to OTT for Spezza Cowen

Sens get another top seven pick... plus two good prospects.. Preds have some risk here that Spezza can jump ship next summer but they also get a young talent in Cowen back

Final piece... time to go shopping... Thomas Vanek is the big prize of course... let us say $7.5M...

Fin al roster

Vanek-Spezza-Hornqvist
Forsberg-Fisher-Smith
Wilson-Gagner-Read
Nystrom-Gaustad-Watson
Clune Bourque

Josi-Weber
Cowen-Jones
Ekholm-Ellis
Bartley

Rinne
Mazanec

$68.672M... right under the cap...
The Preds signed MDZ to play with Jones not to trade him.

Preds are not in the market for older injury prone or other teams scrap centers.

Offense will improve hopefully with Iron Hook, FF, Sissons, this years top 10 pick and a coaching/system change.

Big prize will be getting Stastny. He would be my number one target.

Centers:
1-Stastny
2-Iron Hook
3-Wilson
4-Spaling

That's if they don't trade Wilson. If so Spaling 3 amd Watson 4.

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