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Old
03-08-2014, 10:26 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
I don't think they mean toughness in that way.

Toughness as in, always working, always going hard for the puck, never taking a shift off, being hard to play against, having intensity.

That sort of thing.
Yup, the same as all the elite teams like the Blues, Bruins and Kings. That is the way the game should be played.

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03-08-2014, 10:28 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I believe you have interpreted MacLean's comments exactly, though I don't believe the players have to be changed to achieve what he wants.

The problem isn't team toughness, its commitment to hard work and to team structure.

MacLean has been saying these things since he got here.

This team played better and worked harder last season without the skill this edition of the Senators possesses, question is why?

IMO it is because some of the skilled players aren't committed to a system that demands team structure and work ethic to be successful.

I suspect there will be changes this summer, this team just doesn't seem to have the character to be successful.
We might be able to get it out of these players, but we haven't all season. I guess at some point we have to question whether there is an issue with the players and that we simply need new ones.

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03-08-2014, 10:30 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
What blows my mind is this... BM has been here almost 7Years and we still are looking for an identity
yup. that was being made to sound like it was a coach thing in the past. it's quite obvious now it is a GM thing. No plan up top = no plan on the ice. Jesus i've been saying this for years now. What the hell is the master plan here? we need a puck mover, we need a physical d, we need a top 6 forward, we need a gritty forward, we need a goaltender, we need a coach, we play 200 feet (but don't), play a puck possession game, we need to outwork the other team, we need an identity All the same ****.

BM is terrible at his job but he keeps getting extensions. Phillips is terrible at his job but he keeps getting extensions. Trickle down from the clueless owner. Confusion top to bottom.

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03-08-2014, 10:48 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
I disagree. This quote was directly after our practice yesterday where MacLean had the team doing a lot of "battle" drills. Near the end of practice, one of the battle drills between Cowen and Neil got heated and they ended up dropping the gloves and fighting. Some of the other Sens had to break them up. Here are a few more of MacLean's quote's in response to that altercation:

In regards to the fight between Neil and Cowen:



MacLean is clearly stating that we wants the Sens to play a tougher, more physical game. He wants them to play with an edge, battle for loose pucks and space around the net, clear the front of our net and wear out the opposition on the forecheck

It seems like you and a few other posters in this thread are the ones that misinterpreted MacLean's quote.
I don't disagree he wants this team to compete harder and work harder within the system and game plan and not just rely on skill.

I don't believe he wants his team to be more physical in the sense of hits or fights, or he wouldn't have said this.

From the above quote,
“He’s just playing hard,” MacLean shouted at one of the combatants. “Nothin’ wrong with playing hard.”

MacLean is obviously getting tired of the lazy, undisciplined play. The results of which have translated into a league high in minor penalties and a steady flow of costly mental mistakes.

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03-08-2014, 11:05 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
What blows my mind is this... BM has been here almost 7Years and we still are looking for an identity

Where were you all of last year when Ottawa exceeded expectations? All you hear this year from you is that Murray has been here for 7yrs.......Change things up once in awhile.

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03-08-2014, 11:11 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Hossa18 View Post
Where were you all of last year when Ottawa exceeded expectations? All you hear this year from you is that Murray has been here for 7yrs.......Change things up once in awhile.
They did great. No one seems to talk about the part where we were blown out of the water when we finally met a real playoff team.

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03-08-2014, 11:15 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
yup. that was being made to sound like it was a coach thing in the past. it's quite obvious now it is a GM thing. No plan up top = no plan on the ice. Jesus i've been saying this for years now. What the hell is the master plan here? we need a puck mover, we need a physical d, we need a top 6 forward, we need a gritty forward, we need a goaltender, we need a coach, we play 200 feet (but don't), play a puck possession game, we need to outwork the other team, we need an identity All the same ****.

BM is terrible at his job but he keeps getting extensions. Phillips is terrible at his job but he keeps getting extensions. Trickle down from the clueless owner. Confusion top to bottom.

Do you not understand that Murray's hand are tied? Do you think we lost Alfredsson because Murray didn't want him? It sure as hell wasn't because we couldn't fit him under the cap. We had to get Edmonton to keep 50% of Hemsky's contract with 20 games left into the season when we had tones of cap space available. Even Tim Murray said how happy he was going to a team with an Ownership group willing to spend. It starts from the top.....People blaming Murray is just bewildering to me.

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03-08-2014, 11:16 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Hossa18 View Post
Where were you all of last year when Ottawa exceeded expectations? All you hear this year from you is that Murray has been here for 7yrs.......Change things up once in awhile.
Thats the problem with Bryan Murray as GM, exceeding expectation is finishing 8th.

I get that Melnyk is handcuffing Murray but at what point do we actually stop being a mediocre at best team?

Bryan Murray is living off of Karlsson and a clueless owner.

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03-08-2014, 11:34 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Hossa18 View Post
Do you not understand that Murray's hand are tied? Do you think we lost Alfredsson because Murray didn't want him? It sure as hell wasn't because we couldn't fit him under the cap. We had to get Edmonton to keep 50% of Hemsky's contract with 20 games left into the season when we had tones of cap space available. Even Tim Murray said how happy he was going to a team with an Ownership group willing to spend. It starts from the top.....People blaming Murray is just bewildering to me.
melnyk is not the reason we've gone through so many coaches. and he's not the reason this team is so inconsistent and looks lost on the ice. of course he is heavily responsible, but murray has done a crap job with what he has to work with imo.

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03-08-2014, 11:35 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
They did great. No one seems to talk about the part where we were blown out of the water when we finally met a real playoff team.
So there are real playoff teams and non real playoff teams? So maybe the league should just invite 4 teams to the playoffs ever year. Did anyone think that Carolina or Tampa Bay were real playoff teams the year they won the Stanley Cup? People will go to great lengths to try and prove their point without making any sense.

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03-08-2014, 11:36 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I don't disagree he wants this team to compete harder and work harder within the system and game plan and not just rely on skill.

I don't believe he wants his team to be more physical in the sense of hits or fights, or he wouldn't have said this.

From the above quote,
“He’s just playing hard,” MacLean shouted at one of the combatants. “Nothin’ wrong with playing hard.”

MacLean is obviously getting tired of the lazy, undisciplined play. The results of which have translated into a league high in minor penalties and a steady flow of costly mental mistakes.
I don't think any of you are actually reading the OP. I never said anything about fights. And in regards to hits, it was relative to increasing the success of our forecheck and taking time and space away from the opposition.

I actually am starting to find this comical. I mentioned that we need more players like Dustin Brown, Ryan Callahan, David Backes, Wayne Simmonds, Patrice Bergeron and Jonathan Toews and fans on here are not only disagreeing with me, but they are actual criticizing me for suggesting this. That is a pretty clear indication that some of the posters in this thread don't really follow the rest of the league that intently. Every single one of those players would be a great addition to our team. We most definitely need more players that are comparable to the ones I mentioned.

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03-08-2014, 11:59 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
I don't think any of you are actually reading the OP. I never said anything about fights. And in regards to hits, it was relative to increasing the success of our forecheck and taking time and space away from the opposition.

I actually am starting to find this comical. I mentioned that we need more players like Dustin Brown, Ryan Callahan, David Backes, Wayne Simmonds, Patrice Bergeron and Jonathan Toews and fans on here are not only disagreeing with me, but they are actual criticizing me for suggesting this. That is a pretty clear indication that some of the posters in this thread don't really follow the rest of the league that intently. Every single one of those players would be a great addition to our team. We most definitely need more players that are comparable to the ones I mentioned.
The team either needs more of these players or the current players have to play the game with more determination and a higher compete level.

IMO if MacLean remains the coach, there will be players added like the ones listed and others removed.

PS realize you didn't mention fights and my comments weren't offered as a rebuttal to anything you wrote, just offering my perspective on the topic.

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03-08-2014, 12:04 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Thats the problem with Bryan Murray as GM, exceeding expectation is finishing 8th.

I get that Melnyk is handcuffing Murray but at what point do we actually stop being a mediocre at best team?

Bryan Murray is living off of Karlsson and a clueless owner.
No exceeding expectations is making the playoffs when you are a rebuilding team, which they were last year. Once they made the Ryan trade, that is when the rebuild in my eyes finished. So blame whoever you want but I blame Melnyk for all the lost leadership.

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03-08-2014, 12:06 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
yup. that was being made to sound like it was a coach thing in the past. it's quite obvious now it is a GM thing. No plan up top = no plan on the ice. Jesus i've been saying this for years now. What the hell is the master plan here? we need a puck mover, we need a physical d, we need a top 6 forward, we need a gritty forward, we need a goaltender, we need a coach, we play 200 feet (but don't), play a puck possession game, we need to outwork the other team, we need an identity All the same ****.

BM is terrible at his job but he keeps getting extensions. Phillips is terrible at his job but he keeps getting extensions. Trickle down from the clueless owner. Confusion top to bottom.
Saying something over and over doesn't make it any more valid, Fuhr is proof of this.

The team announced its strategic direction less than three years ago, rebuild.

Then the first steps were taken, core players were identified, veterans were traded, areas of improvement were identified, and the selections at the draft supported the plan directly or indirectly.

Based on the initial results the plan was working, actually provided better results than expected.

To deal with the areas of improvement needs, Murray added Anderson, Turris, Methot, Ryan, and MacArthur. He most likely would have kept Alfie as well if the budget allowed for it.

This year the team heads into the third season of the rebuild process and the performance drops off. In no way should this suggest there is/was no plan or the plan has failed.

This season is an indication not all the prospects developed as quickly as thought and there is a need to further assess the players for fit within the team's structure and style of play.

IMO the team is now in the adjustment phase of the rebuild.

I fully expect Murray will add and subtract to the team prior to next season.

IMO this team is in better shape than it has been since 2007-2008, with significantly more assets to continue the improvement.

The only question that remains is whether the owner will provide a budget that allows Murray to finish the job over the next season or two.


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03-08-2014, 12:18 PM
  #40
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we would not need a single tuff guy if we had 20 hard workers.

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03-08-2014, 12:30 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
They did great. No one seems to talk about the part where we were blown out of the water when we finally met a real playoff team.
Everyone is well aware the team lost to Pittsburgh, but you seem to dwell on the negatives and not give credit where it is due.

Second year of the rebuild and without Cowen, Spezza and Karlsson for most of the year, finish in the playoffs and beat the number one seed in their division.

IMO that was quite an accomplishment, unless of course you expected these results which I doubt.

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03-08-2014, 12:50 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
The team either needs more of these players or the current players have to play the game with more determination and a higher compete level.

IMO if MacLean remains the coach, there will be players added like the ones listed and others removed.

PS realize you didn't mention fights and my comments weren't offered as a rebuttal to anything you wrote, just offering my perspective on the topic.
Fair enough. Why is it that you think that our players are unable to play with more determination and raise their compete levels?

It seems like MacLean has probably tried every tactic out there to ignite something in them and it isn't working. In my opinion, the issue is the players, but if you have some ideas on what might get this current roster, I would like to hear it. Maybe there are some creative solutions that the Sens management and coaching staff hasn't thought of or implemented yet.

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03-08-2014, 01:16 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
Fair enough. Why is it that you think that our players are unable to play with more determination and raise their compete levels?

It seems like MacLean has probably tried every tactic out there to ignite something in them and it isn't working. In my opinion, the issue is the players, but if you have some ideas on what might get this current roster, I would like to hear it. Maybe there are some creative solutions that the Sens management and coaching staff hasn't thought of or implemented yet.
A big problem this year is that enough guys aren't going at the same time. When Turris was on fire, Spezza was struggling. Now that Spezza is playing great Turris is nowhere to be found.

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03-08-2014, 02:28 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
Fair enough. Why is it that you think that our players are unable to play with more determination and raise their compete levels?

It seems like MacLean has probably tried every tactic out there to ignite something in them and it isn't working. In my opinion, the issue is the players, but if you have some ideas on what might get this current roster, I would like to hear it. Maybe there are some creative solutions that the Sens management and coaching staff hasn't thought of or implemented yet.
Its the make up of the top six, it doesn't have the elite skill that allows them to play a possession game and they aren't overly physical to be consistently successful at the cycle or dump and chase game.

IMO the top six needs to be revamped to some extent regardless of the system MacLean wants to play.

If MacLean wants a hard working group that fits into the Brown, Toews , etc mold, then some serious changes need to be made.

Given what is there now, I would start by putting Ryan-Spezza together and see if they can figure it out. If they can't then deal with it in the off-season.

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03-08-2014, 05:40 PM
  #45
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Everyone is well aware the team lost to Pittsburgh, but you seem to dwell on the negatives and not give credit where it is due.

Second year of the rebuild and without Cowen, Spezza and Karlsson for most of the year, finish in the playoffs and beat the number one seed in their division.

IMO that was quite an accomplishment, unless of course you expected these results which I doubt.
i'm sounding negative this season because we have been inconsistent from the start. and the same problems are still around. Beating mtl in the 1st round was a hell of a lot fun to watch, but we lost badly to pittsburgh. The real tests imo come when you face teams like pitt, boston, la, stl, chicago in the playoffs.
It's fine to lose and learn, but i don't see us having any better of a shot against the top teams this yr than we did last yr. And i'm not sure i see a plan in place that would improve our chances next yr. All the while management is saying we will be cup contenders. The lack of progression is the frustrating part for me. I just want to see small improvements and i want to see our young guys gain confidence.

Now we win one game today and Paul Maclean is joking around again.

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03-09-2014, 09:24 AM
  #46
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The team really needs a top 6 forward who can hit, fight and score. Stewart, Simmonds etc... Most elite teams have that. Getzlaf, Perry, Lucic etc...

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03-09-2014, 12:47 PM
  #47
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The team really needs a top 6 forward who can hit, fight and score. Stewart, Simmonds etc... Most elite teams have that. Getzlaf, Perry, Lucic etc...
Lazar.

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03-09-2014, 01:54 PM
  #48
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Ahh...its been what, a week since we had a thread here saying we need a power forward. D toughness is fine. And Ryan, Zbad, and MM all play a power game. They dont fight, but fighting doesnt put the puck in the net, especially when you're best players are sitting in the box for 5 minutes or out a month from a broken hand.

The problem with this team is there's a lack of talent. And a lot of this has to do with the sens being bottom 5 in payroll. Just look at the other teams near the bottom...they're all bad.

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03-09-2014, 03:50 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Lazar.
Lazar isn't a fighter, nor is he in the weight class of the players you mentioned.

Lazar will play the 200' game with skill and tenacity, he will finish his checks and produce points.

IMO Lazar plays the game the way MacLean wants the current group to play.

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03-09-2014, 04:24 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Lazar isn't a fighter, nor is he in the weight class of the players you mentioned.

Lazar will play the 200' game with skill and tenacity, he will finish his checks and produce points.

IMO Lazar plays the game the way MacLean wants the current group to play.
Not sure about that.

Since nobody knows what Maclean wants. It seems like he likes 2 kinds of players, defensively inept floaters or offensively challenged scrubs.

Mac's 200 ft philosophy went out the door long ago.

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