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Edm/Fla rumour followed by proposals

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Old
02-03-2004, 09:20 PM
  #26
Hemsky01
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My 2 cents

I love Florida as a trading partner but it seems to me you have too many players that you deem "untouchable. If you want Brewer, Weiss/Krajick/Horton/Stewart/J-Bo will have to be coming back.(I also might settle for that Loungo goalie ) You don't take young core players from another team and expect to give up stuff from your scrap heap.

I would love to see a Smith for Krajick deal. Maybe Edmonton need to add a pick but I think that is something like Lowe is looking for. (and if he doesn't get it, he will probably just hold onto Smith). Smith is the Captain, has been the best d-man this year for us, and is not a UFA this summer like so many people seem to think.

Comments on the Smith + for Krajick......

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02-03-2004, 09:29 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbar
How about this 3-way trade Proposal:

Florida: Eric Brewer

Anaheim: Viktor Kozlov or Nik Hagman

Edmonton: Kristian Huselius, Mark Popovic, and Fla's 2004 or 2005 1st rounder (Edmonton's choice).

This way Florida gets their 1st pairing defenseman, Anaheim gets the forward Murray had been wanting (in previous rumours), and Edmonton gets a good young scoring winger, a 2nd tier type offensive defensive prospect (one of Edm's biggest needs), and a nice prospect in this or next year's draft (Edmonton's choice).
Florida seems to be giving up way to much and Anaheim seems needlesly included I'm pretty sure Lowe would be interested in both Kozlov and Hagman so I don't really see the point in giving them to Anaheim for just Popovic. How has Kozlov been at center, I know he improved when shifted to wing but if we got him we'd most likely want him at center?

TFK37: I've only seen Krajicek play twice so if you say he is good defensively I guess I will just have to trust you until I've seen more of him to form a more informed opinion, but through the short period of time that is not the impression I got and yes one of the games I watched was the one against Detroit with the horrible give-away infront, by the sounds of it that is not his usual game so I guess it might have tainted my opinion of him. The point I was making is he is a rookie and little brain farts are common among all young d-men as it is a position with a steep learning curve if Mezei were to go down (which his short history has shown is a commmon occurance fluke or not), you will not be very well prepared with either Lilja or Biron stepping up to fill his injured spot it will not make for the strongest of d-pairings.


Last edited by FacelessButcher: 02-03-2004 at 09:32 PM.
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Old
02-03-2004, 09:33 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takkie
How about Kozlov/bure +1st for Brewer and a 2nd/3rd
HUGE overpayment.. Florida's first this year is a very valuable pick and Kozlov/Bure both have big roles on this team.

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02-03-2004, 10:01 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Florida seems to be giving up way to much and Anaheim seems needlesly included I'm pretty sure Lowe would be interested in both Kozlov and Hagman so I don't really see the point in giving them to Anaheim for just Popovic. How has Kozlov been at center, I know he improved when shifted to wing but if we got him we'd most likely want him at center?
Well if V.Kozlov and Hagman is what you guys are interested in thats no problem (its harder for the Panthers to part with Huselius than those 2) but I figured Edmonton wanted to stay young and Kozlov is 28-29 so thats my reasoning why I didn't think Edmonton would be interested in him since you guys are trying to move Smyth and J.Smith (older players) and instead offered him to Anaheim.

This year Kozlov hasn't played much at center but in the past hes always been a terrific playmaker and responsible defensively (he was a big reason why Pavel Bure was so successful) but the problem was he was always getting injured often playing at center so we shifted him to wing and let Jokinen handle the physical load and its worked quite well.

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Old
02-03-2004, 10:13 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky01
My 2 cents

I love Florida as a trading partner but it seems to me you have too many players that you deem "untouchable. If you want Brewer, Weiss/Krajick/Horton/Stewart/J-Bo will have to be coming back.(I also might settle for that Loungo goalie ) You don't take young core players from another team and expect to give up stuff from your scrap heap.

I would love to see a Smith for Krajick deal. Maybe Edmonton need to add a pick but I think that is something like Lowe is looking for. (and if he doesn't get it, he will probably just hold onto Smith). Smith is the Captain, has been the best d-man this year for us, and is not a UFA this summer like so many people seem to think.

Comments on the Smith + for Krajick......
Well the FL ownership wants to build the team via the draft & youth. So you may think FL has too many untouchable players but thats the reality of it. Weiss, Krajicek, Horton, Stewart & Jay Bo won't be traded to acquire Brewer. The offer of Jokinen for Brewer is at least giving up a piece of our current core...our current captain. Both teams might feel that one is worth more than the other and all that but the 2 have similar value. Krajicek is not a guy I would move for Smith as he's been very impressive in his latest callup. I would be more willing to deal Novak + for Smith.

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Old
02-03-2004, 11:50 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luongofan
HUGE overpayment.. Florida's first this year is a very valuable pick and Kozlov/Bure both have big roles on this team.
Overpayment is right if your talking about Edmonton overpaying. Brewer right now would get a first and Kozlov himself. Edmonton wouldn't even need to throw in a second.

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02-04-2004, 12:06 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichPanther
Well the FL ownership wants to build the team via the draft & youth. So you may think FL has too many untouchable players but thats the reality of it. Weiss, Krajicek, Horton, Stewart & Jay Bo won't be traded to acquire Brewer. The offer of Jokinen for Brewer is at least giving up a piece of our current core...our current captain. Both teams might feel that one is worth more than the other and all that but the 2 have similar value. Krajicek is not a guy I would move for Smith as he's been very impressive in his latest callup. I would be more willing to deal Novak + for Smith.
Agree with you that the Panthers are in the position of wantin to keep their young core but your GM seems to be set on making the playoffs this year. If it is true that these players are untouchable, then you will be acquiring players with big paychecks (they are cheap to obtain, not very many of those on the Oilers), or just 3rd and 4th line players. I think it's just a case of if Florida is not willing to give up the players Lowe wants for Smith or Brewer, he is perfectly content not dealing them.

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02-04-2004, 12:31 AM
  #33
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This thread needs to be filed under G for garbage. Its inundated with homers and garbage.

Florida needs to back off if any of its young core of players is the deal maker, or their first round pick this season. Smith isn't what is coveted, but rather someone who might garner some trade interest around draft time for the Cats and would help out for the now. Thing is, Dudley is lookin for someone for now AND in the long run, which is a description more fitting Brewer. Expectin one of Bouwie, Krajicek, Horton, Weiss, Stewart, or even Luongo (what a joke that was to say) for Brewer is detrimental to the future of Florida, and to think Oil fans want the first rounder in addition to.

In all honesty, Florida needs to scrap the season and plan for the draft from here on out. The time isn't right to make any irrational trades for a defenseman, as its a seller's market and Florida doesn't have the expendable pieces to acquire one.


Oh and to Faceless who says Smith won't be a UFA when the new CBA comes around. Anyone unsigned over the age of 28 (over whatever it may end up bein) when the new CBA is signed will be a UFA. The date of the current CBA's expiration doesn't matter, if he's of age and unsigned when the new CBA is signed. There won't be a season without a new CBA, so it all depends on that.

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02-04-2004, 12:37 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClashCitiRockr
This thread needs to be filed under G for garbage. Its inundated with homers and garbage.

Florida needs to back off if any of its young core of players is the deal maker, or their first round pick this season. Smith isn't what is coveted, but rather someone who might garner some trade interest around draft time for the Cats and would help out for the now. Thing is, Dudley is lookin for someone for now AND in the long run, which is a description more fitting Brewer. Expectin one of Bouwie, Krajicek, Horton, Weiss, Stewart, or even Luongo (what a joke that was to say) for Brewer is detrimental to the future of Florida, and to think Oil fans want the first rounder in addition to.

Oh and to Faceless who says Smith won't be a UFA when the new CBA comes around. Anyone unsigned over the age of 28 (over whatever it may end up bein) when the new CBA is signed will be a UFA. The date of the current CBA's expiration doesn't matter, if he's of age and unsigned when the new CBA is signed. There won't be a season without a new CBA, so it all depends on that.
I think the proposal of Luongo was a joke. The Point was Florida wanted Brewer who is a young core d-man and didn't want to give up any of their core. I think we'll just keep Brewer then. You also seem to know alot about how the CBA will turn out. Must be nice to be such good friends with Bettman and Goodenow.

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02-04-2004, 12:43 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClashCitiRockr
Expectin one of Bouwie, Krajicek, Horton, Weiss, Stewart, or even Luongo (what a joke that was to say) for Brewer is detrimental to the future of Florida, and to think Oil fans want the first rounder in addition to.
I didn't see any Oiler fans trying to get Luongo/Horton/Weiss and a first rounder for Brewer.. on the other hand, I saw a lot of Florida fans trying to pawn off Mezei and a draft pick for Eric. Yes, expecting one of Bouwie, Krajicek, Horton, Weiss etc. might be detrimental to Florida's future (that's questionable as well - I'm pretty sure most people would agree that Brewer > Krajicek at the least). On the other hand, how is not detrimental to the Oiler's future to move Brewer for a package of scrubs or second rate prospects? It's been said before but I'll say it again, you have to give to get. You might be able to get Jason Smith without giving up one of your core youngsters but you're definitely not going to get a player of Brewer's ilk without breaking open the bank a bit. Florida has the resources to pull off a trade, it all depends on whether they're willing to pony up the players..

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02-04-2004, 12:58 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClashCitiRockr
Oh and to Faceless who says Smith won't be a UFA when the new CBA comes around. Anyone unsigned over the age of 28 (over whatever it may end up bein) when the new CBA is signed will be a UFA. The date of the current CBA's expiration doesn't matter, if he's of age and unsigned when the new CBA is signed. There won't be a season without a new CBA, so it all depends on that.
Many teams who trade for players sign them to long term contracts isn't that a very possibile outcome? The current CBA does not expire till Sept 15, 2004 so you have from the time of the trade to then to ink him to an extension I'm sure Smith and Dudley would come to some understanding I couldn't see Dudley trading anything worthwhile for Smith in the first place unless he had an intention of resigning him.

At no point did I say Smith won't be a UFA when the new CBA comes around, under the current CBA he is defined as an RFA saying you know the outcome is foolish until the NHLPA, GM's and the League come to some mutual understanding and have everything done and signed it's just a bunch of hot air.

edit: I was thinking about it and I am pretty sure no one is allowed to be resigned when there is no CBA in active effect as a governing piece to establish player-GM contract negotiating procedures and rules. So Jason Smith's RFA status would most likely be protracted in fairness to a very short time span as in June 30, 2004 to Sept 15, 2004 but that gives you two and a half months of RFA status (so long as you tender the minimum qualifying offer $2.53million) where you can resign him as an RFA. I think saying he is an RFA till he's 31 and June 30, 2005 passes is misleading in that you don't actually have from now till then as you cannot resign him while CBA negotiations are in effect which can drastically alter the possible window of opportunity for signing him while avoiding any conceivable risk of him being picked up as a UFA upon the result of CBA negotiations. If you were to sign Jason Smith anytime before Sept 15, 2004 you remove all doubt of him being able to be acquired, but if you try to sign him after this date you must entertain the possibility that you could be a victim to fate and that he could conceivably be a UFA pending the outlines of the new CBA.


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Old
02-04-2004, 05:24 AM
  #37
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Smith is more valuable to a team going to the playoffs than to a team who's season will end April 4th followed by who-knows-how-long of a lockout. Nobody knows what the new CBA will look like, how anything might be pro-rated, and what the rules will be. Seems foolish to trade young assets for such a risk.

Eric Brewer represents the typical Dudley target - a big D with good mobility.

Edmonton needs a big #1 C. Can't see them trading Brewer for anything less than Olli Jokinen. He did have a breakout 36g, 29a last season, but has settled back to a 15g 14a campaign this season, and responds less to Dudley than to Keenan.

It seems some are saying it would take Brewer+ to get Jokinen, while others Jokinen+ to get Brewer. So that would seem to me to make Brewer for Jokinen a good foundation for a trade.

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02-04-2004, 05:58 AM
  #38
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Feb. 4th rumour from Spector's site:


ARE THE PANTHERS INTERESTED IN JASON SMITH?

EDMONTON SUN: Robin Brownlee reports the presence of the Florida Panthers assistant GM Grant Sonier at three recent Oilers homegames (coinciding with the return of team captain Jason Smith from an ankle injury) is leading to speculation the Panthers, who are seeking a rugged defenceman, might be interested in Smith. GM Kevin Lowe stated he wasn't interested in trading Smith and added there are no trade talks going on between him and the Panthers. Sonier is apparently scouting Western Conference clubs and Edmonton happened to be one of his stops.

Spector's Note: That probably won't stop speculation that Smith or several other Oilers could be on the trade block by the trade deadline if the club isn't in playoff contention by then.



Well looks like Lowe has every intention of keeping Jason Smith in Edmonton if he stated he wasn't interested in trading him (unless Lowe is just denying it) but as for the lack of trade talks between Edmonton and Florida that is probably due to Dudley being extremely busy coaching the team. He stated in the Florida papers that he is relying heavily on his scouting staff while he remains with the team as coach so probably once the All-Star break arrives he will regroup his staff, discuss, and then decide what to do and then begin talks at the General Managers Meeting with the rest of the GMs of the league. When Comrie was being shopped and Keenan was coach earlier in the season it was reported that Lowe and Dudley had extensive talks with one another so perhaps offers were made but then rejected and both parties know each others interests so there would be no need for trade talks??? Ah speculating is so much fun.

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Old
02-04-2004, 06:39 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichPanther
Well the FL ownership wants to build the team via the draft & youth. So you may think FL has too many untouchable players but thats the reality of it. Weiss, Krajicek, Horton, Stewart & Jay Bo won't be traded to acquire Brewer. The offer of Jokinen for Brewer is at least giving up a piece of our current core...our current captain. Both teams might feel that one is worth more than the other and all that but the 2 have similar value. Krajicek is not a guy I would move for Smith as he's been very impressive in his latest callup. I would be more willing to deal Novak + for Smith.
As much as Edm and FLA could be good trade partners, they do have one thing in common that doesn't make them compatible: Both teams are going with youth via draft and trades. It seems they are both gearing up for a post-CBA environment.

I don't get why FLA would want Smith. I think he's very valuable but kinda goes against their philosophy. Same goes with Edm. Why would they trade Brew. I dunno, the more I think about, the less chance their is. These teams may trade but with other Stanley Cup contending teams.

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02-04-2004, 07:00 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Cerebral
I didn't see any Oiler fans trying to get Luongo/Horton/Weiss and a first rounder for Brewer.. on the other hand, I saw a lot of Florida fans trying to pawn off Mezei and a draft pick for Eric. Yes, expecting one of Bouwie, Krajicek, Horton, Weiss etc. might be detrimental to Florida's future (that's questionable as well - I'm pretty sure most people would agree that Brewer > Krajicek at the least). On the other hand, how is not detrimental to the Oiler's future to move Brewer for a package of scrubs or second rate prospects? It's been said before but I'll say it again, you have to give to get. You might be able to get Jason Smith without giving up one of your core youngsters but you're definitely not going to get a player of Brewer's ilk without breaking open the bank a bit. Florida has the resources to pull off a trade, it all depends on whether they're willing to pony up the players..
You might want to look again at who proposed that Mezei + pick for Brewer...that appears to be an Oiler fan. Hell, even Crossbar (a FL fan) stated that Mezei has been injured too much and Edmonton wouldn't want him. It shows you that FL fans are understanding of the reality of the situation moreso than maybe the Oiler fans. Most of the trade prosposals involving Brewer have been Jokinen or FL's 1st rounder which is pretty close in value. FL's pick will be in the top 10 & Jokinen was selected 2 spots ahead of Brewer so either would be fair value. But I agree that it would be detrimental to give him up to your organization. But like you said, you have to give to get so if you wanted a guy like Jokinen, you'd have to give up Brewer. I don't think either team will move those players but its pretty damn fair if it did go down.

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02-04-2004, 10:20 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichPanther
But like you said, you have to give to get so if you wanted a guy like Jokinen, you'd have to give up Brewer. I don't think either team will move those players but its pretty damn fair if it did go down.
Agreed.. I don't think the Oilers could get Jokinen without giving up Brewer and vice versa for Florida. I would personally have trouble moving Brewer for Jokinen alone simply because he has had one breakout season and appears to be somewhat struggling with consistency so far this season..

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02-04-2004, 01:06 PM
  #42
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I think that the FLA list of untouchables (Weiss/Horton/Bouwmeester/Luongo) and semi-touchables (Jokinen) are exactly what EDM is looking for in a trade for Brewer. Throwing around Hagman, 1st rounder, Mezei etc. won't get the trade done. It might be a case that neither team is really a good trade partner for the other. But may I suggest an alternative?

How about J. Smith OR S. Staios for V. Kozlov?

Both are relatively the same age (29-30), making relatively the same amount of money ($2.3 million) so financially and contractually it would be an even up trade. I think Florida's defense could really be aided by a solid, snarly veteran Dman with strong leadership skills like J. Smith who could really be someone for Bouwmeester to learn from.

Similarly, V. Kozlov could be the skilled, big top two line centre that the Oilers are looking for.What do you think?

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02-04-2004, 03:03 PM
  #43
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I must agree that there seems to be a deal coming soon, but i was thinking (and this could be trouble)

but,

what if florida was scouting the teams that the oilers where playing.
for example

chicago... a definate seller considering their season, no need to elaborate

kings....
a buyer looking to make a push to the playoffs and bolster their scoring considering they have some health issues.

anaheim.....

a seller as well with some trade bait that would not demand as much as kevin lowe would.

just a thought, i know florida wants to make a push, but i have to agree that they should not sacrifice the future, considering they may not even make the playoffs.

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02-04-2004, 07:44 PM
  #44
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...that would work for me. Could that be expanded to include Biron?

Smith, Chimera, 3rd ---------- for ---------- Kozlov, Biron

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02-04-2004, 08:04 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter orange
...that would work for me. Could that be expanded to include Biron?

Smith, Chimera, 3rd ---------- for ---------- Kozlov, Biron

Personally, I'd pay you to take Biron off of our hands...but If you're asking what Dudley would want...probably something significant. Don't know if Chimera and a 3rd would be enough, but it certainly would be for me.( As you can tell, I think Biron is putrid).

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