HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kings are still a very good team and will win lots of games soon

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-31-2014, 11:12 AM
  #51
The Tikkanen
Pest
 
The Tikkanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Yorba Linda
Country: United States
Posts: 6,479
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to The Tikkanen
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
If you are the GM of another team, would you want to trade for someone getting paid handsomely while not producing on the ice?

This isn't a Smyth situation, where he's on the last year of his deal, and wants to go back to one specific team. A team that wasn't going to be good yet anyway, so who cares if you bring back a guy from the past for a bit.

Brown isn't asking to be dealt. Williams isn't either. Brown can't seem to score outside of southern California this season. His cap hit goes up next year, and he's signed for a while. Who's taking him without giving you their highly paid crap back in return?
Are you saying every NHL trade throughout history has made perfect sense for both sides? GM's covet guys, look at Frattin. Sather has been known to make some head scratching trades and he has guys like Callahan and Girardi supposedly on the block. Garth Snow, plenty of questionable deals. AND the Kings and Dean Lombardi have a nice track record of shipping guys out of town before their cap hit goes up or a NTC kicks in. Brown isn't untouchable, his contract looks like a noose around the neck of the GM right now with the way he is playing and he is now sulking on the ice. This team was kick started by Brown trade rumors and a major trade 2 years ago, maybe it's time to combine the 2?

The Tikkanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2014, 11:33 AM
  #52
Whiskeypete
Registered User
 
Whiskeypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: stuck in the middle
Country: United States
Posts: 2,426
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
There aren't many teams like Chicago or Pittsburgh. You can want to be them all you want, but there aren't too many Crosby's, Malkin's, and Kane's out there for the taking.



Which is it? Torn down or not a total overhaul?

If you want to be Pittsburgh or Chicago, it's going to take it being torn down completely, then win a lottery and get a couple top picks in the right years. If it's not a total overhaul, then the Kings will keep being what they've been, because you can't transform a team into something completely different overnight.
yes there are very few of those guys available, but LA right now has pieces of the puzzle. the likes of Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Quick will bring a smile to any GMs face. as of now that is my untouchable core you build around.

i wish Voynov, Brown and Richards could remain on this list but based on this season they can't. if an upgrade is possible that improves the team, then they are expendable. personally i think Voynov will bounce back, he is having a delayed sophomore slump. he is also partially exposed due to them not having a 2012 Mitchell, Scuds or Greene alongside him.

let's call it a renovation, rather than a tear down or overhaul. a tear down especially carries the incorrect connotation. poor choice of words on my part. this team needs to "on the fly" change the type of game they play.

this won't happen overnight, the same way that when Sutter got here he changed some of the TMu style. the team struggled a bit as they adapted.

they can begin by beginning to try open up the ice and thinking offensively. they play defense first, defense second and then offense. they stifle themselves into being inactive, reactive and paranoid to press the attack.

Dean has to begin looking at getting a different type of player - whether it's the draft, trades or FA. he has to adapt his roster to this game.

we are seeing the likes of ANH and SJ also beginning to make this transformation. teams that press the attack and still have a very good back will prevail the majority of the time moving forward. the game changes, and as an example if it didn't then there wouldn't be the likes of PMD such as Karlsson, OEL, in the league.

Whiskeypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2014, 11:35 AM
  #53
KingsFan7824
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Are you saying every NHL trade throughout history has made perfect sense for both sides?
I would not. I'm just asking if people wanting to trade Brown would trade for Brown. All the reasons someone wouldn't trade for him, could probably be applied to most GM's.

Quote:
GM's covet guys, look at Frattin.
Lombardi may have wanted Frattin, but Frattin is in the last year of his contract, Toronto was picking up part of his salary, and if Frattin had been making more money, coveted by Lombardi or not, it would've been difficult to fit him in under the cap this year. The circumstances surrounding Frattin made him more available to the Kings than just a GM coveting the guy.

Quote:
Sather has been known to make some head scratching trades and he has guys like Callahan and Girardi supposedly on the block. Garth Snow, plenty of questionable deals. AND the Kings and Dean Lombardi have a nice track record of shipping guys out of town before their cap hit goes up or a NTC kicks in.
Most of Sather's trades have been pretty good for him. It's signing free agents where he goes crazy.

I wouldn't say it's impossible to trade Brown or anyone else. It just wouldn't be easy.

Quote:
Brown isn't untouchable, his contract looks like a noose around the neck of the GM right now with the way he is playing and he is now sulking on the ice. This team was kick started by Brown trade rumors and a major trade 2 years ago, maybe it's time to combine the 2?
Maybe it is. I'm pretty sure Brown wasn't 29 and sitting on 10 goals and 16 points through 55 games and a cap hit of almost $6 million for 8 more years starting next season when all that stuff happened 2 years ago though.

KingsFan7824 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2014, 12:10 PM
  #54
Knight of the Realm
Champs Again!
 
Knight of the Realm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Westeros
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,182
vCash: 500
At this point I think it's just one of those years and that the playoffs are looking less likely. I don't want to see too many reactionary moves in a year like this but if we are out of the playoffs by the deadline I would like to see LA try to trim some fat off the roster and go with an infusion of youth next year. Would hate to move assets for rentals that are not gonna right the ship.


Last edited by Knight of the Realm: 01-31-2014 at 02:31 PM.
Knight of the Realm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2014, 12:11 PM
  #55
BallPointHammer
Franchise Enforcer
 
BallPointHammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Maryland, USA
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 807
vCash: 500
Delayed Hangover

2012
Kings win cup, spend summer celebrating, roster virtually intact for next season

2012-2013
Another lockout, short season, Kings play well throughout and make it to conference finals

2013-14
Christmas day Kings are 25-9-4, since then 5-11-2

I think the pounding the Kings took from San Jose and St. Louis in last years playoffs really took its toll on the team physically. It showed against Chicago as the Kings were clearly over matched. The resulting physical and emotional toll of three hard series, plus the disappointment of not making cup finals again, along with an even shorter summer due to the extended lockout season, left the Kings ripe for a let down.

You wouldn't have believed that Christmas day. But since then the team looks worse than then did at their low point of their cup winning season. Could this be the inevitable hangover that affects the cup winner each following season?

BallPointHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2014, 12:12 PM
  #56
KingsFan7824
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
yes there are very few of those guys available, but LA right now has pieces of the puzzle. the likes of Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Quick will bring a smile to any GMs face. as of now that is my untouchable core you build around.

i wish Voynov, Brown and Richards could remain on this list but based on this season they can't. if an upgrade is possible that improves the team, then they are expendable. personally i think Voynov will bounce back, he is having a delayed sophomore slump. he is also partially exposed due to them not having a 2012 Mitchell, Scuds or Greene alongside him.

let's call it a renovation, rather than a tear down or overhaul. a tear down especially carries the incorrect connotation. poor choice of words on my part. this team needs to "on the fly" change the type of game they play.

this won't happen overnight, the same way that when Sutter got here he changed some of the TMu style. the team struggled a bit as they adapted.

they can begin by beginning to try open up the ice and thinking offensively. they play defense first, defense second and then offense. they stifle themselves into being inactive, reactive and paranoid to press the attack.

Dean has to begin looking at getting a different type of player - whether it's the draft, trades or FA. he has to adapt his roster to this game.

we are seeing the likes of ANH and SJ also beginning to make this transformation. teams that press the attack and still have a very good back will prevail the majority of the time moving forward. the game changes, and as an example if it didn't then there wouldn't be the likes of PMD such as Karlsson, OEL, in the league.
It's been a rough time lately, and yeah the Kings go in slumps, with this recent one seemingly worse than others, but I don't see that it needs that kind of fix.

Brown has 9 goals in 26 home games, which over 82 games would be 28 goals. He's just been a complete non-factor on the road. That's not a yearly thing either. That's specific to this season. Why? I have no idea. If it's an injury, why has he been fairly productive at home? Just a line match-up thing? Why only now? Why haven't teams been doing this to him for years? He's been a pretty productive player on the road over the years. His road stats this year make zero sense.

The PP is terrible. Do they have the players to be the best in the league? Probably not. They shouldn't be as bad as they are though.

Up until December 23rd, 19 games ago, did the Kings have to change the roster and how they play, or else they would get the hose again? Up until 19 games ago, the Kings were averaging somewhere around 2.6 real goals per game, no empty-net goals or shootout goals included.

Why were the Kings scoring before, but not now? The rest of the league didn't know what the Kings were going to do in the first half of the season? It took them that long to figure out what Sutter's stupidly easy and simple system is? I don't buy that. The players, at least most of them, were just executing what they were doing on the ice to a higher degree.

KingsFan7824 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2014, 12:21 PM
  #57
lexlavender
Registered User
 
lexlavender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 179
vCash: 500
I think we do need a change in our coaching, but we shouldn't dump sutter. I think a two headed coaching system would work, Sutter being a level-headed, by the books, defense first coach, and someone else pushing high flying, risk taking, offense. Hopefully with two minds we could find a middle ground.

In last night's game, I have to say that the star on the Kings was probably Toffoli. everytime he was on the ice he was creating chances, maintaining possession, while still being responsible defensively. He was being offensively creative also, looking for stretch passes, sitting behind the net to pass to the slot, etc. We definitely need more players like that. Not alot, not so much to change our team, but some.

I actually think part of Brown's regression this year is the change in his style of play. In past years he has served as a pure, pure power forward; doesn't handle the puck too much, always looks to shoot, sits in the slot, etc. This year, and he has said this before, he is looking for an all around game, like kopi, focused more on possession. But at the same time, he can't keep the puck to save his life. but my point is that, at one point, Brown was the offensive risk taker that the team needed for their system to flourish.

lexlavender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2014, 12:37 PM
  #58
Duc620
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
2011 / 2012: Kings were really really bad for awhile. Got Carter and Sutter. Hit their stride and won SCF. Not a bad year, overall.

2012 / 2013: Shortened season. Kings lose in SCF finals. Not a bad year, all things considered.

2013 / 2014: Kings have a very strong start. Currently slumping. But, still in playoffs as a top tier defensive team and probably the best puck possession team. One elite goalie with a fair backup. Still have half a season before we actually get to play for the CUP!

Now we should blow everything up? While we are in a playoff position with players that 20 other teams would die for? The idea we need to trade away a bunch of players, fire the coach, and change systems because of a 15 game slump is, plainly put, silly.

We need a couple of players - a strong stay at home, hard hitting D. and a mid level LW. Did any of you hear Sutter interview the other day? They haven't practiced for weeks! They don't have time because there's not enough time for rest and recovery between games. Show me another pro sport where a schedule keeps players from practicing their systems and reads for a month. That is freaking crazy. Team just needs a rest and then some time to practice. A fresh start. And I'll bet they'll be back to the kind of team we saw at the start of the season.

GKG!!!


Last edited by Duc620: 01-31-2014 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Idle time....
Duc620 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2014, 12:46 PM
  #59
Brad Doty
Moderator
Compliance Hero
 
Brad Doty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I.E.
Country: United States
Posts: 11,805
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
2011 / 2012: Kings were really really bad for awhile. Got Carter and Sutter. Hit their stride and won SCF. Not a bad year, overall.

2012 / 2013: Shortened season. Kings lose in SCF finals. Not a bad year, all things considered.

2013 / 2014: Kings have a very strong start. Currently slumping. But, still in playoffs as a top tier defensive team and probably the best puck possession team. One elite goalie with a fair backup. Still have half a season before we actually get to play for the CUP!

Now we should blow everything up? While we are in a playoff position with players that 20 other teams would die for? The idea we need to trade away a bunch of players, fire the coach, and change systems because of a 15 game slump is, plainly put, silly.

We need a couple of players - a strong stay at home, hard hitting D. and a mid level LW. Did any of you hear Sutter interview the other day? They haven't practiced for weeks! They don't have time because there's not enough time for rest and recovery between games. Show me another pro sport where a schedule keeps players from practicing their systems and reads for a month. That is freaking crazy. Team just needs a rest and then some time to practice. A fresh start. And I'll bet they'll be back to the kind of team we saw at the start of the season.

GKG!!!
This is probably an understated and important aspect of what's currently going on, yeah. Not really time to adjust to what's going on--that would help explain the lack of response/adjustments and why it looks like we're just trying the same thing with no results.

__________________
Proud member of The Kurrilino Fan Club
Brad Doty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2014, 12:18 PM
  #60
The Tikkanen
Pest
 
The Tikkanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Yorba Linda
Country: United States
Posts: 6,479
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to The Tikkanen
Soon!

The Tikkanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2014, 12:24 PM
  #61
Axl Rhoadz*
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 958
vCash: 500
I look at it like this....in 2012, this was a team that BARELY made the playoffs yet ended up winning the cup. This year, they are a team that is expected to contend but is on their way to missing the playoffs. Why should we be shocked? If we've learned anything about the Kings, it's expect the unexpected.

Axl Rhoadz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2014, 12:52 PM
  #62
Brad Doty
Moderator
Compliance Hero
 
Brad Doty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I.E.
Country: United States
Posts: 11,805
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
I look at it like this....in 2012, this was a team that BARELY made the playoffs yet ended up winning the cup. This year, they are a team that is expected to contend but is on their way to missing the playoffs. Why should we be shocked? If we've learned anything about the Kings, it's expect the unexpected.
I agree with the last part, but the first is a little misleading. Did we already forget the record post-Carter, the playoff run, and all last year, and the beginning of this year? THIS stretch is the aberration. No, they're probably not as good as the home stretch and the full 2012 playoffs, but they're not THIS bad, either.

Brad Doty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2014, 01:29 PM
  #63
KingPuckChoo
Registered User
 
KingPuckChoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by theMajor View Post
great read. tonight is a perfect game to start the turnaround!
oh he..he..yes..turnaround , hmmmmmm tonight? ..about that...

KingPuckChoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2014, 03:55 PM
  #64
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 10,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Soon!
I feel like Dark Helmet in Spaceballs. "Quick! Somebody get me a copy of the 2013-14 kings season review DVD".

"Preparing to fast forward!"

That would be past the part of the season we're currently watching.

"When will then be now?"

"Soon!"


Buddy The Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2014, 05:01 PM
  #65
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 9,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Oh stop your trolling. Stanley Cup winning teams lose "this much".
not really...

look at the last few winners: Chicago, Boston and Pittsburgh - all 3 of these teams still rack up wins and challenge for their conference lead.

I would venture to guess that all 3 of these teams were 1-2 in their division since their Cup wins.

The Kings aren't even challenging for their division lead. The main difference? the 3 teams above have consistent offense that can carry the team when needed. Quick has to play "perfect" for the Kings to even have a chance.

And I still can't count detroit out of the playoffs until they actually miss the playoffs - someday. Not unlike that I can't count on the Kings making the playoffs until they actually make the playoffs.

(and in before "built for the playoffs..." )

Butch 19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2014, 06:30 PM
  #66
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 32,304
vCash: 500
Where's this supposed very good team that's going to win a lot of games soon? They're also going to be in a lot of low scoring games the way things are going. Is a magical fairy going to appear from the heavens and sprinkle some talent and skill onto this roster?

Ziggy Stardust is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2014, 07:06 PM
  #67
Herby
Culture Changer
 
Herby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
If you are the GM of another team, would you want to trade for someone getting paid handsomely while not producing on the ice?
You mean we're not getting Parise for Richards?

Herby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2014, 08:19 PM
  #68
TonySCV
Moderator
Two Timer!
 
TonySCV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,170
vCash: 500
Well well well.

Robert_P was dead on right. If you're not already following him on Twitter, you should be. @RobertJFTC

More great insight from Robert_P:

http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/20...nchise-history

"Their underlying numbers are even better than the Kings’ team that won the cup two seasons ago. That Kings team posted a Corsi For % of 54.9. This year’s team sits at 56.3%-- good for best in the league. 56.3 is the best mark since the 09-10 Blackhawks posted a 56.5%.

As we’ve pointed out before, since '07-08 there have been 4 teams that had a Corsi percentage higher than 56%. 2 have won the Stanley Cup, 1 lost in the Final and the other made it to the Conference Finals."

TonySCV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2014, 08:29 PM
  #69
Knight of the Realm
Champs Again!
 
Knight of the Realm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Westeros
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,182
vCash: 500
I gave up. I didn't think the break would pay such dividends. Glad to be wrong. Keep it going boys.

Western conf. is going to be a grind.

Knight of the Realm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2014, 08:51 PM
  #70
TwoForRoughing
Let's do it again!
 
TwoForRoughing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UCLA, Los Angeles
Posts: 2,264
vCash: 500
"But ... but ... but I thought advanced stats were useless."

Regression to the mean baby!

TwoForRoughing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2014, 09:00 PM
  #71
WhatTheFox
Jacha-chacha-chachow
 
WhatTheFox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: the Black Hole
Posts: 2,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post

"Their underlying numbers are even better than the Kings’ team that won the cup two seasons ago. That Kings team posted a Corsi For % of 54.9. This year’s team sits at 56.3%-- good for best in the league. 56.3 is the best mark since the 09-10 Blackhawks posted a 56.5%.

As we’ve pointed out before, since '07-08 there have been 4 teams that had a Corsi percentage higher than 56%. 2 have won the Stanley Cup, 1 lost in the Final and the other made it to the Conference Finals."

As long as the road to the Cup doesn't go through Chicago again, LA looks poised to do good things.

WhatTheFox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2014, 09:16 PM
  #72
Winger23
Registered User
 
Winger23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatTheFox View Post
As long as the road to the Cup doesn't go through Chicago again, LA looks poised to do good things.
Not to be a Debbie downer as I have been happy with how they have been playing, but I want to see how they play against better teams like the ducks on Saturday. I mean, its not like they have had to play any really good teams during this run....

Winger23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2014, 09:18 PM
  #73
Ron
Bandwagon Since 1967
 
Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brea, California
Country: United States
Posts: 9,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Model62 View Post
Indeed. All the club needs is a little more regression to the mean.

Of course, they could run out of sample size before they reach the mean.
I have a degree in Mathematics and I have no **** ing clue what the **** you just wrote.

__________________
Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2014, 09:18 PM
  #74
Brad Doty
Moderator
Compliance Hero
 
Brad Doty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I.E.
Country: United States
Posts: 11,805
vCash: 500
Epic bump!

Tie this in too.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...d-want-to-face

Brad Doty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2014, 09:19 PM
  #75
Ron
Bandwagon Since 1967
 
Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brea, California
Country: United States
Posts: 9,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
Not to be a Debbie downer as I have been happy with how they have been playing, but I want to see how they play against better teams like the ducks on Saturday. I mean, its not like they have had to play any really good teams during this run....
You aren't going to get the answer you are craving.

The Kings are flying high and the Ducks are duck soup right at this moment. If the Kings blow the Ducks out of the water, it will just be a regression back to the mean if the sample size is large enough.

Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.