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Old
03-11-2014, 03:23 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Well, really, that depends on what sort of deal we can get.

That's why it's called "negotiation".
Really not interested in signing a guy to that term deal that we've seen perform at a justified level for a season.

I still see too many games in which his play is all over the map. Let him get consistency before essentially making him another franchise player.

This is about term; not dollars IMHO. Your going to pay him northward of 5; probably around 6. Do we think he's going to be an 7.5 or greater player after that bridge deal? Probably not.

I don't see much of a benefit to signing him to a really long term deal; unless it's more around the 4.2-4.5 mark.

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03-11-2014, 04:17 PM
  #377
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6 may be insane but he projects out to a 65 pt guy who started slowly this season. I think he could get offer sheeted if we try to lowball him. I think you are dreaming at the 3.5-4 level. I'd guess that 5 is the minimum he is going to get and more like 5.5-6.

Some comps

Tyler Seguin 5.75 for then next 6
Jamie Benn 5.25 for the next 4
The Oiler guys 6 for next 6
Vilppula 5 for 5
Kane & Toews 6.3 for 2
Logan Coture 6 for 6
I get your point but your comps aren't good targets in my opinion. Some got the money on their 3rd contract (Couture), others have performed better from day one in the NHL (Kane, Toews, Oilers guys), Fillpula? If Johansen is at $6MM on his next deal I think the CBJ are crazy. If they go with the 8 year deal? Even crazier.

I love this kid and hope the trajectory continues up but the body of work, for me, says a 2-3 year deal before giving him the big money. I agree that I was over zealous with the $3.5-4MM mark but north of $5MM would be a mistake at this point in my book. I think Brassard, Voracek, Couturier, Couture, Jordan Staal would be who I would look at for comps. Not perfect and Johansen may offer higher upside but he hasn't shown any consistency to bank on upside.

Again, just my opinion. I'm sure he'll get a big deal. I just want to see him earn it and justify it after he gets it.

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03-11-2014, 08:53 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
I get your point but your comps aren't good targets in my opinion. Some got the money on their 3rd contract (Couture), others have performed better from day one in the NHL (Kane, Toews, Oilers guys), Fillpula? If Johansen is at $6MM on his next deal I think the CBJ are crazy. If they go with the 8 year deal? Even crazier.

I love this kid and hope the trajectory continues up but the body of work, for me, says a 2-3 year deal before giving him the big money. I agree that I was over zealous with the $3.5-4MM mark but north of $5MM would be a mistake at this point in my book. I think Brassard, Voracek, Couturier, Couture, Jordan Staal would be who I would look at for comps. Not perfect and Johansen may offer higher upside but he hasn't shown any consistency to bank on upside.

Again, just my opinion. I'm sure he'll get a big deal. I just want to see him earn it and justify it after he gets it.
Also have to remember the cap is rising so that will (might) inflate his deal a bit. 4 yrs @5.5? Buy a year of UFA time and then if he develops go for 8 at the big bucks.

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03-11-2014, 09:11 PM
  #379
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$5.5 sounds about right in my opinion. I think he could argue he deserves more, especially if the cap goes up, but that's where I'd aim for if I were Jarmo.

Under almost no circumstances does he move though unless Joey snaps and goes insane or something. Very similar situation to Bobrovsky (albeit obviously without the KHL competition). The main priority is to KEEP HIM HERE, the second priority is to do so at a reasonable amount.

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03-11-2014, 09:31 PM
  #380
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I guess I'm the only one who see's Joey getting less than 5 mill per season on a bridge deal.

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03-11-2014, 11:05 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
I guess I'm the only one who see's Joey getting less than 5 mill per season on a bridge deal.
PK Subban's bridge deal was less than 3 ... so, anything is possible, but Johansen is stepping up as this team's #1 center. Even on the worst teams, legitimate top line centers earn more than $5 mil ... I think it's in Jarmo's best interest to try and lock him up in the 5-6 range, long term.

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03-11-2014, 11:36 PM
  #382
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there is a guy in NY named Tavares that makes 5.5mil a year. I hear he's not to bad at hockey

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03-12-2014, 06:36 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
I guess I'm the only one who see's Joey getting less than 5 mill per season on a bridge deal.
Haven't read my posts eh?

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03-12-2014, 06:38 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by stevo61 View Post
there is a guy in NY named Tavares that makes 5.5mil a year. I hear he's not to bad at hockey
Agreed. That's good news because Johansen is nowhere near the player Tavares is...

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03-12-2014, 10:49 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Agreed. That's good news because Johansen is nowhere near the player Tavares is...
Right, but factor in the normal NHL inflation and that would be like paying $6+ now. And Tavares wasn't as established when he signed it. So I'm not sure which side the Tavares argument is supposed to support.

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03-12-2014, 10:52 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by stevo61 View Post
there is a guy in NY named Tavares that makes 5.5mil a year. I hear he's not to bad at hockey
He's also a guy who signed his contract 2 years ago at a contract widely perceived as below market value. Lousy comparison that's dwarfed by counter examples.

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03-12-2014, 12:26 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
PK Subban's bridge deal was less than 3 ... so, anything is possible, but Johansen is stepping up as this team's #1 center. Even on the worst teams, legitimate top line centers earn more than $5 mil ... I think it's in Jarmo's best interest to try and lock him up in the 5-6 range, long term.
#1 center and also scoring leader, points and goals (but nobody tell Jarmo that )

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Old
03-12-2014, 12:41 PM
  #388
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What? Are we worried that, suddenly, Johansen is going to be a 35-40 goal scoring 90 point guy that is suddenly going to demand over 7 million in three years?

Odd.

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Old
03-12-2014, 01:19 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
What? Are we worried that, suddenly, Johansen is going to be a 35-40 goal scoring 90 point guy that is suddenly going to demand over 7 million in three years?

Odd.
Please brer blahblah, don't throw us into that briar patch!

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03-12-2014, 01:41 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
What? Are we worried that, suddenly, Johansen is going to be a 35-40 goal scoring 90 point guy that is suddenly going to demand over 7 million in three years?

Odd.
I suspect the actual worry is that Johansen might do that all of once and then suddenly cease to do so after signing a new massive contract, presumably out of the belief that this team's existence is governed entirely by illustrations of Murphy's Law.

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Old
03-12-2014, 02:09 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I suspect the actual worry is that Johansen might do that all of once and then suddenly cease to do so after signing a new massive contract, presumably out of the belief that this team's existence is governed entirely by illustrations of Murphy's Law.
I think we have context wrong. I'm asking from the perspective of a bridge contract with the new, long term one, on the back end.

I think there is more financial risk signing him to a long term deal this off season than waiting until after a bridge deal.

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03-12-2014, 02:11 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Please brer blahblah, don't throw us into that briar patch!
This discussion has taken odd some odd lines of thinking in regards to the dollars (short and long term projection).

I'm trying to set an expectation for peak contract demands at the end of the bridge. I think we're paranoid about a possibility that really doesn't exist. With the Canadian dollar depressed, I don't think we're going to see the contracts escalate as much as they have. They'll only increase if the cap allows it.

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03-21-2014, 07:56 PM
  #393
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It was interesting to read the first pages of this thread to see your skepticisms about Ryan Johansen at the beginning of the season. There's a thread on the Habs forum about whether Alex Galchenyuk has met our expectations so far.

Speaking of Johansen, it's great to see a young talented player taking his game to another level. You guys have a special player on your hands. Best of luck to Columbus

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03-26-2014, 10:51 PM
  #394
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Question about your captaincy situation. I remember reading a little bit after you guys acquired Dubinsky in the trade that he looked to be the favorite for your next Captain. Well, I know he's been given the "A", but do you guys still think he gets the "C"? I don't follow you guys so I really don't know your situation.

But that got me thinking and was surprised none had been chosen, then I looked at this Johansen kid and thought you haven't given it to anyone because you wanted it given to him possibly? I've got him on my fantasy team and he's done very well for me this season. Wish the Rangers had someone of his caliber.

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03-26-2014, 10:55 PM
  #395
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Question about your captaincy situation. I remember reading a little bit after you guys acquired Dubinsky in the trade that he looked to be the favorite for your next Captain. Well, I know he's been given the "A", but do you guys still think he gets the "C"? I don't follow you guys so I really don't know your situation.

But that got me thinking and was surprised none had been chosen, then I looked at this Johansen kid and thought you haven't given it to anyone because you wanted it given to him possibly? I've got him on my fantasy team and he's done very well for me this season. Wish the Rangers had someone of his caliber.
Its looking more and more likely that Dubinsky will just be an A and they will wait on Jenner/Murray to be the C.

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03-27-2014, 07:49 AM
  #396
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Question about your captaincy situation. I remember reading a little bit after you guys acquired Dubinsky in the trade that he looked to be the favorite for your next Captain. Well, I know he's been given the "A", but do you guys still think he gets the "C"? I don't follow you guys so I really don't know your situation.

But that got me thinking and was surprised none had been chosen, then I looked at this Johansen kid and thought you haven't given it to anyone because you wanted it given to him possibly? I've got him on my fantasy team and he's done very well for me this season. Wish the Rangers had someone of his caliber.
As embarrassing as it is to admit, the last two CBJ captains have asked to be traded away from Columbus (Foote & Nash). Understandably, there's zero discussion or expectation or speculation on a future CBJ captain by anyone associated with the organization. I think it's a smart move by the CBJ. Why risk putting the organization through that embarrassing situation again at least until it can put its "league doormat" image behind?

Seriously, each situation was ugly for the organization. Adam Foote demanded to be traded even though CBJ were within a couple points of a playoff spot at trade deadline. Not only that, he demanded it be Colorado (restricting negotiation options for CBJ) and had a private plane fueled on the Columbus tarmac to take off as soon as the trade was official so he could get to Calgary for that night's Avs game.

Rick Nash requested it a little over two years ago after the team collapsed. He requested it a couple months prior to the trade deadline. However, Scott Howson, CBJ GM, initially just made it known that they were "shopping Nash". Howson then went public with at a trade deadline press conference that Nash asked to be traded. However, Howson didn't trade Nash at that time because he didn't get good enough offers. So the CBJ held on to Nash for remainder of season making it awkward for everyone.

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Old
03-27-2014, 09:57 AM
  #397
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Its looking more and more likely that Dubinsky will just be an A and they will wait on Jenner/Murray to be the C.
This, although depending on his continued development, i wouldn't be suprised to see an A on his jersey in the coming years.

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03-27-2014, 12:04 PM
  #398
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I would think if RyJo keeps developing and they resign him to a multi year deal he would be a good candidate for the C

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Old
03-27-2014, 12:50 PM
  #399
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IMO the benchmark contract is Landeskog, who makes 5.5x7. Johansen will either sign a bridge contract at 3.5-4x2, or get 5-5.5x6-7.

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Old
03-27-2014, 01:33 PM
  #400
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I would think if RyJo keeps developing and they resign him to a multi year deal he would be a good candidate for the C
Um, why?

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