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The future of Marc Staal

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Old
03-13-2014, 03:34 PM
  #151
smoneil
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I said he had a very good season. I'm not knocking him because of one game.

It's what he's going to command. It's his first time at UFA, and he's had two very serious injuries. Look at 2015-16. Six players committed to 36 million bucks (if no Richards buyout). MSL is a UFA. Stepan and Hagelin will get bridge contracts. Staal is a UFA. Say they give Staal six million. Swap him with Richards following a buyout.

35 million bucks for six players (Nash, Henrik, Girardi, Staal, Klein, McDonagh). 40 million for the remaining 15-16 skaters. MSL, Stepan and Hagelin will combine for 12-14 million.

It will be more the same mediocrity. 6-9 seed. 15-22nd pick. Rinse, repeat.

The only three people who are absolutely untouchable are McDonagh, Kreider and Henrik. Maybe Stepan.

Everybody else will continue to do what Sather and Dolan want -- average season, a couple of playoff home dates, continue the cycle.
I don't necessarily agree with all of this (I think Kreider still has plenty of room to grow, and I think Stepan's down year might be partly attributed to his lack of a pre-season).

Regardless of that though, Staal can't be the player where the line gets drawn in the sand. As much as it hurt, Callahan was ultimately expendable at his price tag. We had options (frankly too many options) at his position, and thus couldn't afford to over-pay for him.

In a vacuum, I would agree that Staal should get about the same as Girardi. I think Staal is the better player and a few years younger, but Girardi plays the right side and has durability going for him. Those things, in a vacuum, tend to put the two at the same level contract wise.

That said, behind Girardi, we had Stralman, Klein and two NHL ready (or close to NHL ready) prospects in McIlrath and Allen, one of whom is one of our top prospects. Girardi didn't have a position of great negotiating strength (better than Callahan, but still, the team wouldn't be in a horrible horrible spot if G priced himself over his value). Staal will command more because he knows the team is screwed without him. Moore has barely looked competent as a sheltered 3rd pair D. On the second pair? He'd get roasted on a nightly basis. Who do we have in the pipeline? Skjei, who might be good, but is also at least a couple years away from his first taste of the NHL (to say nothing of being ready for top 4 duty).

That means, if we let Staal walk or trade him, we need to go out and buy a top 4 UFA LD. The price on that would easily be 5+ AAV, and that's for a player who would likely be a couple of levels below Staal.

Value is what a player can get based on production, skill, and the situation of the team looking to sign him. Things would be a lot simpler if contracts were signed in vacuums.

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Old
03-13-2014, 05:01 PM
  #152
broadwayblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I said he had a very good season. I'm not knocking him because of one game.

It's what he's going to command. It's his first time at UFA, and he's had two very serious injuries. Look at 2015-16. Six players committed to 36 million bucks (if no Richards buyout). MSL is a UFA. Stepan and Hagelin will get bridge contracts. Staal is a UFA. Say they give Staal six million. Swap him with Richards following a buyout.

35 million bucks for six players (Nash, Henrik, Girardi, Staal, Klein, McDonagh). 40 million for the remaining 15-16 skaters. MSL, Stepan and Hagelin will combine for 12-14 million.

It will be more the same mediocrity. 6-9 seed. 15-22nd pick. Rinse, repeat.

The only three people who are absolutely untouchable are McDonagh, Kreider and Henrik. Maybe Stepan.

Everybody else will continue to do what Sather and Dolan want -- average season, a couple of playoff home dates, continue the cycle.
Marc Staal getting a new contract with a cap hit of 6M/year will in no way adversely effect this team's ability to be successful. That's a reasonable contract for a player of his caliber in the current era.

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Old
03-14-2014, 09:02 AM
  #153
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How about this. Cam Ward might want to leave Carolina, Vancouver is looking for a Goalie, Alex Edler is having a hard time under Torts and Marc Staal might want to join his brothers in Carolina.

How about a three team trade involving Ranger, Carolina and Vancouver.

Vancouver gets Cam Ward and they send Alex Edler to Rangers and send one of their young goalies to Carolina also.

Carolina gets a young promising goalie from Vancouver and Marc Staal from Rangers.

Rangers get Alex Edler as a replacement for Marc Staal. Edler knows AV and has been playing great under him. He's also a better offensive D then Staal.

I don't know how it fits with cap hit and all that stuff, but it seems two me that at least two of these players could use a trade. Of course there'll have to be some draftpicks and so to make it even, but in the big picture it looks like an interesting trade to me.

What's your opinion?

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Old
03-15-2014, 01:33 PM
  #154
Pavel Buchnevich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hagg18 View Post
How about this. Cam Ward might want to leave Carolina, Vancouver is looking for a Goalie, Alex Edler is having a hard time under Torts and Marc Staal might want to join his brothers in Carolina.

How about a three team trade involving Ranger, Carolina and Vancouver.

Vancouver gets Cam Ward and they send Alex Edler to Rangers and send one of their young goalies to Carolina also.

Carolina gets a young promising goalie from Vancouver and Marc Staal from Rangers.

Rangers get Alex Edler as a replacement for Marc Staal. Edler knows AV and has been playing great under him. He's also a better offensive D then Staal.

I don't know how it fits with cap hit and all that stuff, but it seems two me that at least two of these players could use a trade. Of course there'll have to be some draftpicks and so to make it even, but in the big picture it looks like an interesting trade to me.

What's your opinion?
I'd rather see us get picks back. We traded away too many first round picks in the MSL trade.

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Old
03-15-2014, 01:46 PM
  #155
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Staal is better than Alex Edler. I would rather pay Staal and keep him.

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Old
03-15-2014, 03:06 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Staal is better than Alex Edler. I would rather pay Staal and keep him.
though Staal may specialize as a defensive defenseman, it's not like he can't turn the offense on and get a decent shot on net. He's no Letang or MDZ (yuck), but he's far from incompetent, and he's able to make the small offensive play.

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03-15-2014, 04:41 PM
  #157
broadwayblue
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Originally Posted by rangersfan9 View Post
I'd rather see us get picks back. We traded away too many first round picks in the MSL trade.
Too many? We traded one...with the possibility of a 2nd in the event we win 2 rounds in the playoffs which we are not even guaranteed to make. While mid first round picks are nice to have, they are far from sure things and even when they pan out are years away.

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03-16-2014, 12:38 AM
  #158
Pavel Buchnevich
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Too many? We traded one...with the possibility of a 2nd in the event we win 2 rounds in the playoffs which we are not even guaranteed to make. While mid first round picks are nice to have, they are far from sure things and even when they pan out are years away.
I thought it was definitely one and then the possibility of another 1st if the Rangers reach the conference finals.

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Old
03-16-2014, 10:01 AM
  #159
Ail
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Originally Posted by rangersfan9 View Post
I thought it was definitely one and then the possibility of another 1st if the Rangers reach the conference finals.
It is.

It's already a guaranteed 1st next year and second this year.

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03-16-2014, 01:57 PM
  #160
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It is.

It's already a guaranteed 1st next year and second this year.
If things go as I hope they do, thats two first round picks.

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Old
03-16-2014, 02:34 PM
  #161
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Here's how I view the Rangers.

It's as if we bought a mediocre used car at a relatively high price. The car isn't performing up to our expectation.

The decisions:

A) dump the car, take the proceeds and go shopping again.

B)sell off parts of the car that are performing decently to offset some of the purchase price but in all likelihood will reduce the performance of the car. IN addition the expensive parts that are performing optimally might age too quickly for a long term patient rebuild.

c)continue to Swap out some old weaker parts and hope we get lucky that a few replacements was all that was needed.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:11 AM
  #162
BobMarleyNYR
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Not a bad analogy. We goo from B to C never A. Slats would see A as unethical, and I ALMOST agree.

The kids are now young adults, and they're simply not that good. We should have drafted better after the last time we went with A (sort of). Unfortunately, we thought we'd surprise everyone with our non-marquee drafting strategies, and are now reaping the "benefit."

On the other hand, Stepan might be a 70-point C with another team... Kreider could be Pacioretty... Hagelin could have 30 goals... our team turned a 70+ pts Richards and a 40-goal Nash into 2nd liners. v It turned PPG St. Louis into a guy who has 2 assists in 8 games... so who knows anymore?

Trading out a bunch of 24-28-year-olds is something that would destroy Slats' rep, and make the next McDonagh-Gomez deal impossible. Maybe we'll be able to trade Dan Boyle after a year at the $7M we will give him, for Forsberg or something. Not if we trade everyone. Slats will lose too much respect/bargaining power.

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