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Sabres shopping top pick?

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Old
03-16-2014, 04:43 PM
  #76
Beerz
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I must have missed it. Explain for me why you think being bad is a good strategy. Feel free not to mention Edmonton or anyone else.

Tell me why you think a team sucking will be good.

Thanks
Because it allows teams such as Buffalo who will never have the ability to attract top tier FA's the chance to obtain their own top tier players... Is it really THAT hard to comprehend?

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03-16-2014, 04:44 PM
  #77
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Sure buffalo could trade their #1 pick but it would have to an unbelievable offer....not one you could generate in NHL 14.

What buffalo wants to see....a team that really wants Ekblad at D sitting in 2nd and they make a deal with a team at 2 or 3 for their pick plus extra and then take a Sam.

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03-16-2014, 04:45 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
because the teams with the best players have the best chance to win, the best players are drafted at the top of the draft.
Since the year 2000 there have been 14 1st overall picks. 3 of them: Crosby, Toews and Fleury have won Cups.

I would actually love to see the Sabres win a Cup as I think it would be good for the league, the franchise and the city. I just disagree with the idea that tanking is the best way to go.

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03-16-2014, 04:45 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Since the year 2000 there have been 14 1st overall picks. 3 of them: Crosby, Toews and Fleury have won Cups.

I would actually love to see the Sabres win a Cup as I think it would be good for the league, the franchise and the city. I just disagree with the idea that tanking is the best way to go.
Top picks are only one part of it.

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03-16-2014, 04:46 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
because the teams with the best players have the best chance to win, the best players are drafted at the top of the draft.
Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA were beyond awful for years. Loaded up at the draft and now look at them. Teams like the Oilers, Islanders and Avalanche could all look like this in a few years.

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03-16-2014, 04:46 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
It's true, Tim Murray who is driving around in a truck scouting is shopping a pick he doesn't even know will be #1 or #2. Also when he doesn't know if he's getting New York's pick this year or next.
Indeed, this made up rumor is pure silliness.

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03-16-2014, 04:49 PM
  #82
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I understand your point, but the sabres aren't just tanking by losing games. We've accumulated an unprecedented # of 1st rounders over a couple of years, and the vanek trade really is the key. It's another very high pick as well as buffalos. Whether it is this year or next we'll have most likely two top 5 picks in the same draft, on top of St. Louis possible 2 first rounders.

At some point you get sick of mediocrity and draft around 12th overall. I'd much rather trade away poms, vanek, miller, ott, Roy, Sekera, etc when you know that group is not going to take you to the promise land.
I absolutely don't disgree with any of that. The only thing I've disagreed with was someone saying it would be the dumbest thing in the world for Buffalo to trade away this pick. I'd absolutely explore options and see if someone would give an already established top line player for it.

Like you said, you have a ton of prospects and a ton of picks. Letting them come to a team with SOME established upper echelon players would let them become the best players they could.

Do you think Lucic, Marchand, Krug, Rask, etc would have developed like they did if there wasn't a Chara, a Bergeron, a Savard, etc on the team that they joined?

Remember back when Colorado broke in Drury and Hedjuk? I think they were both in the running for the Calder. Because the team had Sakic and Forsberg. Same with the way Detroit was always able to break in their young players.

When possible, and i fully unerstand it isn't always, THAT is how you build a team. Not amassing a bunch of teens and throwing them out there so you can suck for 2 years.

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03-16-2014, 04:50 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by LotteryForLife View Post
Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA were beyond awful for years. Loaded up at the draft and now look at them. Teams like the Oilers, Islanders and Avalanche could all look like this in a few years.
And even though Islanders and Edmonton fans might not believe it, they still have as good of chance of anyone to be that next wave of young good teams. I can't believe so many people are using the Oilers as an example. their oldest 1st overall is still only 22 years old. It's not a lost cause yet..

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03-16-2014, 04:52 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I absolutely don't disgree with any of that. The only thing I've disagreed with was someone saying it would be the dumbest thing in the world for Buffalo to trade away this pick. I'd absolutely explore options and see if someone would give an already established top line player for it.

Like you said, you have a ton of prospects and a ton of picks. Letting them come to a team with SOME established upper echelon players would let them become the best players they could.

Do you think Lucic, Marchand, Krug, Rask, etc would have developed like they did if there wasn't a Chara, a Bergeron, a Savard, etc on the team that they joined?

Remember back when Colorado broke in Drury and Hedjuk? I think they were both in the running for the Calder. Because the team had Sakic and Forsberg. Same with the way Detroit was always able to break in their young players.

When possible, and i fully unerstand it isn't always, THAT is how you build a team. Not amassing a bunch of teens and throwing them out there so you can suck for 2 years.
All in good time. All in good time. You think we will not add vets and proven NHL'ers at some point to help the young kids coming in. That will come AFTER the 2015 Draft.

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03-16-2014, 04:53 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post

When possible, and i fully unerstand it isn't always, THAT is how you build a team. Not amassing a bunch of teens and throwing them out there so you can suck for 2 years.
wasn't aware we were doing that, we have exactly one full time player under the age of 21 years old. And he is a legit NHL player, next season we probably only bring in Risto and maybe our pick this year. Not even close to throwing kids out there who are not ready.

I know you don't follow our team, but it's pretty obvious to our fan base that we will be trading picks for players farther along in their development, bringing in character veterans, and even trading prospects and picks for actual NHL players. We have a boatload of assets to play with, most other rebuilding teams do not.

We could make that Bobby Ryan trade a year or two down the line and not even blink assuming guys continue on their development path.

Could our rebuild fail? absolutely it's a risk. Right now though it seems like they are not the right path.

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03-16-2014, 04:54 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Since the year 2000 there have been 14 1st overall picks. 3 of them: Crosby, Toews and Fleury have won Cups.

I would actually love to see the Sabres win a Cup as I think it would be good for the league, the franchise and the city. I just disagree with the idea that tanking is the best way to go.
Toews was not a 1st overall pick. Kane, however, was one.

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03-16-2014, 04:57 PM
  #87
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It is still too early to say if Buffalo rebuild will be better than Edmonton or not. We don't know how Darcy's last couple/few drafts will turn out. We have had 3 coaches in 2 season, Oilers had 4 coaches in 5 years (or more). Oilers are drafting for D and middle 6 players, Sabres need the more difficult high end skill Edmonton already has.

It can honestly go either way for Buffalo, especially with Murray as GM now. Rookie GM with a reputation for finding NHL level talent, but that doesn't mean high end prospects. Sens have been drafting in the middle of the rounds for a while, and aside from Karlsson, have stocked up on 3rd liners and built a 1-line team

I wouldn't be shocked at all if Murray trades the Sabres pick to the Sens for a handful of prospects that he scouted over the years, but it wouldn't surprise me if he drafted Ekblad instead of a centre.

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03-16-2014, 04:57 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I absolutely don't disgree with any of that. The only thing I've disagreed with was someone saying it would be the dumbest thing in the world for Buffalo to trade away this pick. I'd absolutely explore options and see if someone would give an already established top line player for it.

Like you said, you have a ton of prospects and a ton of picks. Letting them come to a team with SOME established upper echelon players would let them become the best players they could.

Do you think Lucic, Marchand, Krug, Rask, etc would have developed like they did if there wasn't a Chara, a Bergeron, a Savard, etc on the team that they joined?

Remember back when Colorado broke in Drury and Hedjuk? I think they were both in the running for the Calder. Because the team had Sakic and Forsberg. Same with the way Detroit was always able to break in their young players.

When possible, and i fully unerstand it isn't always, THAT is how you build a team. Not amassing a bunch of teens and throwing them out there so you can suck for 2 years.
That was one reason why I wanted to keep Ehrhoff as a solid 2nd pairing guy for the next 7+ years, it we'll see what happens. You can't trade Everyone right? I don't speak for very sabres fan, but I don't expect a playoff seed until 2016-17 really at best. Even with a Bennett mcdavid + these guys are gonna be so young. Also, guys like hodgson, Myers, Ennis, Ehrhoff and maybe even foligno will be considered our vets by then. Still young, but not kids.

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03-16-2014, 05:07 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
And even though Islanders and Edmonton fans might not believe it, they still have as good of chance of anyone to be that next wave of young good teams. I can't believe so many people are using the Oilers as an example. their oldest 1st overall is still only 22 years old. It's not a lost cause yet..
Buffalo should keep the pick. Take Reinhart or Ekblad. Be awful again next year. Grab one of the young studs in next summers draft. No reason to push the fast forward button and take lesser quality players like these ridiculous Panthers offers

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03-16-2014, 05:10 PM
  #90
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You'd be stupid as a GM not to shop it. What if a team blows your socks off. You always listen. The thing here is, just because you're shopping, doesn't mean you are going to buy anything. In otherwords, they probably won't trade it.

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03-16-2014, 05:19 PM
  #91
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Am I the only one who is starting to get the impression the current regime in Buffalo throws out a lot of rumors as a way of fishing to see what kind of offers come in?

As for the rumor itself, I'd only be happy with this if the team below us wanted to trade up a spot for Ekblad or something. We threaten to take Ekblad, because honestly, I wouldn't mind the choice. And let the team below us (Edmonton/Isles?) trade up for him.

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03-16-2014, 05:24 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I absolutely don't disgree with any of that. The only thing I've disagreed with was someone saying it would be the dumbest thing in the world for Buffalo to trade away this pick. I'd absolutely explore options and see if someone would give an already established top line player for it.

Like you said, you have a ton of prospects and a ton of picks. Letting them come to a team with SOME established upper echelon players would let them become the best players they could.

Do you think Lucic, Marchand, Krug, Rask, etc would have developed like they did if there wasn't a Chara, a Bergeron, a Savard, etc on the team that they joined?

Remember back when Colorado broke in Drury and Hedjuk? I think they were both in the running for the Calder. Because the team had Sakic and Forsberg. Same with the way Detroit was always able to break in their young players.

When possible, and i fully unerstand it isn't always, THAT is how you build a team. Not amassing a bunch of teens and throwing them out there so you can suck for 2 years.


How many teens are on the current sabres roster? Let me answer for you. Its Girgensons, who is very obviously ready for the nhl, and Risto who just got called up last game for a short stint (which obviously won't negatively affect his development). The next youngest player is Marcus Foligno who is 22 and has already played in the league for a while. So there's 1 teen on buffalos long term roster, and he oozes leadership and maturity already at 19.You're analysis is pointless because that isn't what is happening in buffalo.


Last edited by Samsonite23: 03-16-2014 at 05:32 PM.
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Old
03-16-2014, 05:25 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I absolutely don't disgree with any of that. The only thing I've disagreed with was someone saying it would be the dumbest thing in the world for Buffalo to trade away this pick. I'd absolutely explore options and see if someone would give an already established top line player for it.

Like you said, you have a ton of prospects and a ton of picks. Letting them come to a team with SOME established upper echelon players would let them become the best players they could.

Do you think Lucic, Marchand, Krug, Rask, etc would have developed like they did if there wasn't a Chara, a Bergeron, a Savard, etc on the team that they joined?

Remember back when Colorado broke in Drury and Hedjuk? I think they were both in the running for the Calder. Because the team had Sakic and Forsberg. Same with the way Detroit was always able to break in their young players.

When possible, and i fully unerstand it isn't always, THAT is how you build a team. Not amassing a bunch of teens and throwing them out there so you can suck for 2 years.
I didn't know Ristolainen,Zadorov,Compher,Pysyk,Fasching,Baptist e, McCabe,Carrier,Grigorenko and all were in the NHL. Research would go a long way


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03-16-2014, 05:31 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
I didn't know Ristolainen,Zadorov,Compher,Pysyk,Fasching,Baptist e, McCabe,Carrier,Grigorenko and all were in the NHL. Research would go a long way
I didn't know that I said that they were. But "the plan" that I've seen a lot of Sabres fans advocating is to take someone top 2 this year.... I assume that player will make the team. Then suck again next year and get another top 2 pick. I assume that player will make the team. Those (along with Zadorov and Risto next year) were the teenagers I was talking about.

Who knew people in Buffalo were so snarky.

Don't get me wrong, I like snarky.

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03-16-2014, 05:37 PM
  #95
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I didn't know that I said that they were. But "the plan" that I've seen a lot of Sabres fans advocating is to take someone top 2 this year.... I assume that player will make the team. Then suck again next year and get another top 2 pick. I assume that player will make the team. Those (along with Zadorov and Risto next year) were the teenagers I was talking about.

Who knew people in Buffalo were so snarky.

Don't get me wrong, I like snarky.

So The Sabre fans plan is to take someone in top 2 this year ....and the rest is your assumptions.... Good to know. Stop digging your hole ... your argument is invalid.

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03-16-2014, 05:38 PM
  #96
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Well, this draft isn't THAT strong, so it wouldn't shock me if they deal their pick if it's not #1 or at least shop it and see what they can get for it.

If/when they're in this position in 2015, there's no chance this rumor will even pop up.

Plus, the Sabres will also have the Islanders pick this year, most likely (I don't think they'd pass up the McDavid draft), so it gives the Sabres the opportunity to deal their own and still have a pretty high pick, while gaining assets. I don't know if they'd get their asking price though. A team might be willing to do it though, who knows. We've seen crazier things.

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03-16-2014, 05:43 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I didn't know that I said that they were. But "the plan" that I've seen a lot of Sabres fans advocating is to take someone top 2 this year.... I assume that player will make the team. Then suck again next year and get another top 2 pick. I assume that player will make the team. Those (along with Zadorov and Risto next year) were the teenagers I was talking about.

Who knew people in Buffalo were so snarky.

Don't get me wrong, I like snarky.
Zadorov probably won't be on the team next year. What you're saying is that we shouldn't rush prospects which is exactly what the general manager has said he isn't doing. The sabres will draft high over the next two drafts, and will grab some UFA's who are youngish and slowly allow the prospects to take over the mantle. Also, the sabres have many young NHLers like Ennis,Hodgson and Myers who are entering their prime and will be 27-28 when the prospects enter the league. Lets not forget Ehrhoff and Stafford as well.

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03-16-2014, 05:45 PM
  #98
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Would Jankowski + CGY 2015 1st for Buf 2014 1st be of interest to Buffalo? Would allow Calgary to address their #1 defenseman need as well as let them add another top offensive prospect with their own pick and Buffalo gets a chance to have their own pick in 2015, Isle's pick in 2015, and CGY 2015 and gives them a very good chance to get McDavid as well as several other highly touted prospects.

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03-16-2014, 05:50 PM
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The funny part is he was trying to cite Edmonton and their "rushing" of their prospects when in fact ..their 4 top picks have all developed nicely outside of Yak and even then its still too early to cast him off..... Edmontons issue was not providing support for them and basically drafting a bunch of redundant pieces... They are still struggling because of their inability to lure attractive FA's and the fact that they didn't have the assets to obtain a lot of draft picks to enhance their depth...so now they're spinning their wheels with 4 really good pieces and nothing to help them out.

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03-16-2014, 05:51 PM
  #100
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Would Jankowski + CGY 2015 1st for Buf 2014 1st be of interest to Buffalo? Would allow Calgary to address their #1 defenseman need as well as let them add another top offensive prospect with their own pick and Buffalo gets a chance to have their own pick in 2015, Isle's pick in 2015, and CGY 2015 and gives them a very good chance to get McDavid as well as several other highly touted prospects.
No...it wouldn't be enough.

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