HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Kypreos and SN panel say they would take Kessel over Ovi

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-17-2014, 01:43 PM
  #251
tacogeoff
Registered User
 
tacogeoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Killarney, MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,686
vCash: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
What do their career numbers have to do with which guy you would take on your team tomorrow?
exactly. My team needs a PP goal producer and reg minutes producers. We have playmakers, 2way forwards and grinders already. Just need that pure goal scorer. Which in that case would be Ovi and not Kessel as we also like physical players.

tacogeoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 01:46 PM
  #252
CaptainKonoForever
Registered User
 
CaptainKonoForever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 296
vCash: 500
I'm always confused why so many non Capitals fans care about the state of his game...sigh.

Can a mod just make one thread called "Ovechkin isn't good anymore" so that we don't have 100 different ones saying basically the same thing?

I'm never going to understand why people consistently look for the negatives in his game.

CaptainKonoForever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 01:50 PM
  #253
dballislife2
Registered User
 
dballislife2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 669
vCash: 500
its safe to say that at this very moment, they are both 2 of top elite offensive players in hockey

too bad their D makes me want to cry

dballislife2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 01:50 PM
  #254
Human
cynic
 
Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bandwagon
Posts: 6,249
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainKonoForever View Post
I'm always confused why so many non Capitals fans care about the state of his game...sigh.

Can a mod just make one thread called "Ovechkin isn't good anymore" so that we don't have 100 different ones saying basically the same thing?

I'm never going to understand why people consistently look for the negatives in his game.
maybe because we're on a hockey internet board and Ovechkin is one of the highest profiled hockey players in the world?

just a shot in the dark...

Human is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 01:53 PM
  #255
thekernel
Registered User
 
thekernel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,650
vCash: 500
People love to diminish Ovechkin's talents and accomplishments (well, they love to try). It's disgusting.

thekernel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 02:10 PM
  #256
CaptainKonoForever
Registered User
 
CaptainKonoForever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 296
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Human View Post
maybe because we're on a hockey internet board and Ovechkin is one of the highest profiled hockey players in the world?

just a shot in the dark...
I get that. Just the level of criticism for this one player seems a bit over the top compared to others around the league, and frankly unjustified.

CaptainKonoForever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 02:28 PM
  #257
Human
cynic
 
Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bandwagon
Posts: 6,249
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainKonoForever View Post
I get that. Just the level of criticism for this one player seems a bit over the top compared to others around the league, and frankly unjustified.
I'm a Pens fan, and I remember these boards back in 2008/2009/2010 criticizing Crosby. again, high profile players especially when they are not at the top of their game.

Human is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 02:35 PM
  #258
jgoud*
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Four 50+ assist seasons, 4, 5, 6 and 9 seasons ago.

He has 0.39 assists per game since his last 50+ assist season, or a pace of 32 assists per year.

Phil Kessel has 52 more assists since Ovechkin's last 50+ assist season, and has played at a pace of 48 assists per year. In fact, in the past two seasons (117GP) Phil Kessel has only 3 less assists than what Ovechkin has in the past three seasons (191GP).

Kessel is the better playmaker now (meaning not 5 years ago ) and it's not close.


I mean, Jaromir Jagr has 80+ assist seasons under his belt but that doesn't make him a better playmaker now than, say, Patrick Kane or Claude Giroux. If we evaluate players today based on what they did in 2010, than Dany Heatley is still one of the best goal scorers in the NHL.
If you want to forget about the past, then scratch the last 2 seasons (which include kessel's best and ovechkin's worst) and look at this year only. Ovechkin has 11 more goals than Kessel in 4 less games and is only 5 points behind him. If you're not a leaf fan, it's pretty clear who the better player is.

jgoud* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 04:59 PM
  #259
Vladiator16*
R.I.P - Loko.
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Human View Post
yes, and I'm a euro btw...



oh yes, if you consider that Kessel is better than Ovechkin it must be because Ovechkin is russian and the NA media loves to hate its russians. oh wait, Ovechkin has won last year's Hart after a mediocre season. but it is not short-sighted at all to consider that everyone that prefers Kessel must be doing so because they hate russians... go in the poll section and make a poll, Datsyuk/Malkin or Kessel, see how that goes.

and btw, it's pretty damn late on Datsyuk's career, if his time hasn't come the media will probably start hating on him when he's going to be in his 50's, like they are doing with Larionov for example, right? but go on keep victimizing yourself, you'd make a good hockey covering guy for RT or something...
Not victimizing myself, stating the things that i see. Also, Dats already is being called overrated in numerous posts here.
If i would make a poll as you've suggested, i'm pretty sure the numbers would be skewed because this site mainly consist of Canadian posters.

Didnt realize RT covers hockey... If they do i doubt they can do any worse then your buddy Nick Kypreos.

Vladiator16* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 05:03 PM
  #260
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 13,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love View Post
Generally when Kypreos says something, the opposite is true.
Was just thinking this...

Phil has had a very good year, let's see how he does when he feels the pressure of an 8x8 contract...and the media gets in his head...
Ovie is a better player, and has been over the long haul, Phil is just getting going, so let's see...

BLONG7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 05:19 PM
  #261
Canuck21t
Registered User
 
Canuck21t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladiator16 View Post
Stop bringing reason into it...
Ovechkin - Russian, plays on Capitals, floater, lazy, bad leader, minus player (this season) but somehow gets constantly lucky with goals and bone crashing hits (mind you, that doesn't count as leadership).
Kessel - North American, plays in the center of the hockey universe (as humble Canadians see it) try's hard, has more ES points (we all know PP points do not count during the game as high as ES) so he is obviously better.
You call that reason, bringing up a rookie season? We're talking about right NOW and I would choose Kessel too. I'm a Canadian who doesn't care about Americans any more than Russians. Heck, I used to hate more American players than any other nationalities, so spare me the North American thing. Give me better reasons instead of whining.

Canuck21t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 05:51 PM
  #262
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 24,638
vCash: 500
Kessel is having a pretty phenomenal year on a team higher up in the standings. Wouldn't even be surprised at all to see Kessel eventually named 1st team all-star if the goal differential ends up <10 between them and other circumstances remain largely the same as they stand right now (e.g. points pretty much neck-and-neck, team in a playoff spot vs not, that ugly +/-, etc). Ovechkin is still Ovechkin (still the best trick of the one-trick ponies), but I'd say there's more of a "buzz" or "dynamic" to Kessel's game this year, and as a Habs fan I'm not overly loose with any credit to any Leafs - even when it's due.


Last edited by spiny norman: 03-17-2014 at 11:18 PM. Reason: qdp
Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 06:10 PM
  #263
The Thin White Duke
Registered User
 
The Thin White Duke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 1,210
vCash: 500
11 pages and people are still trying to make an argument for Kessel? Kessel's best season is barely better than Ovechkin's worst one. We're talking about a guy who hasn't hit 40 goals yet versus a guy who had a serious shot of putting up 50 in 50 at one point this season. Don't get me wrong, Kessel's turned into an incredibly versatile offensive threat, but Ovechkin is clearly better offensively. The rest of their games are both irrelevant and not even that different.


Last edited by The Thin White Duke: 03-17-2014 at 06:16 PM.
The Thin White Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 06:14 PM
  #264
Ezpz
No mad pls
 
Ezpz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,860
vCash: 500
LeafsNet said that? No way.

Ezpz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 06:21 PM
  #265
Predatials
Registered User
 
Predatials's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mount Juliet
Country: United States
Posts: 2,877
vCash: 500
Kessel was picked last in a All star game draft by a group of his peers. This is a game where defense isn't even played, what does that tell you?




Predatials is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 06:22 PM
  #266
The Thin White Duke
Registered User
 
The Thin White Duke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 1,210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RISPEK View Post
Im a habs fan saying KESSEL is a player i'd rather have over OVECHKIN. Think about that for a second. No bias here. Watch Ovie play, he literally does NOTHING once the puck gets into the defensive zone. He's a deplorable leader for a guy that wears the C, all he cares about is scoring goals. He's not the kind of guy you win cups with. ANd yah 50 goals in 50 games at one point...how long ago was that? Should we take Wayne gretzky at 50 over kessel because he had a 200 point season? The past is the past, this is the now and kessel is a superior player who plays at a very high level in meaningful games. Ovechkin has been choking for 3 years.
As a Leaf fan I'll let you in on a secret, Kessel isn't good defensively. He isn't bad anymore like he used to be, but he doesn't add anything defensively. He'll have a couple nice takeaways here and there, but Ovechkin's much harder to knock off the puck. The difference (if there even is one) isn't nearly big enough to matter.

I won't touch the next point because I'm not psychic so I'll take your word for what Ovechkin thinks and cares about.

The 50 in 50 was possible at one point this season. If you want to skew stats, he got damn close if you count last season + the start of this season. I mean if you don't want to count this season and last because they're in the past go ahead I guess. Check Ovechkin's career playoff PPG and GPG then check Kessel's. I'll wait.

The Thin White Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 06:28 PM
  #267
Jot
Registered User
 
Jot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Waters View Post
Meet mister likes to have it both ways.

And i never said +/- is either infallible or bunk, i said it has been and continues to be used selectively (contextualized as u put it) as either a team or individ stat to run down or defend a player with a poor +/-. Thankyou for illustrating this point.
Ovechkin's +/- is an outlier on his own team.

Kessel's is inline with his teammates.

Jot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 06:33 PM
  #268
Team_Spirit
Gangsta Pleks
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 23,421
vCash: 0
They should do the right thing and fire Kypreos before the NHL move over next season.

Team_Spirit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 06:40 PM
  #269
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,657
vCash: 500
Kypreos should go back to getting punched in the face. As far as I can tell that's what he's been best at his whole life.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 06:43 PM
  #270
Predatials
Registered User
 
Predatials's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mount Juliet
Country: United States
Posts: 2,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Kypreos should go back to getting punched in the face. As far as I can tell that's what he's been best at his whole life.
I love all these ex Caps that now make a living trashing the Caps. Jones and Kypreos I'm looking at you.

Predatials is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 06:45 PM
  #271
Human
cynic
 
Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bandwagon
Posts: 6,249
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladiator16 View Post
Not victimizing myself, stating the things that i see. Also, Dats already is being called overrated in numerous posts here.
If i would make a poll as you've suggested, i'm pretty sure the numbers would be skewed because this site mainly consist of Canadian posters.

Didnt realize RT covers hockey... If they do i doubt they can do any worse then your buddy Nick Kypreos.
the way you see it through your thick Caps/russian homer glasses you mean...

newsflash, in here every player that is better than their peers at one point or another is being called overrated. the russian players shouldn't be treated different just because some users get all ******** about it.

also again, you're moving the goal posts here, we're talking about the NA media not about the users of these boards. you know the same media that voted Ovechkin for the Hart three times. one would think if there was some bias he wouldn't have won most prestigious NA hockey trophy three times...

but go on, you keep proving my point about victimizing yourself...

Human is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 07:51 PM
  #272
GOSENSGO1987
Registered User
 
GOSENSGO1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Earth.
Country: Canada
Posts: 39
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaaah View Post
They're literally the same player..
Yeah, only Ovechkin hits and goes into the tough spots. While Kessel floats around.

GOSENSGO1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 07:59 PM
  #273
Mansfield
possession obsession
 
Mansfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,214
vCash: 500
i take ovi every time. kessel is probably a slightly better playmaker and defensively (lol) but ovi is a level above kessel offensively

Mansfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 08:01 PM
  #274
MuffinMerc
Business. Numbers!
 
MuffinMerc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,750
vCash: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Reim View Post
Thoughts? Are they morons or do you agree?
Imbeciles.

MuffinMerc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2014, 08:02 PM
  #275
The_Chosen_One
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaaah View Post
They're literally the same player..
I don't think you've been watching Leaf games. Unlike Ovechkin, Kessel's line is regularly used against top lines. Sure, he doesn't do PK ( we have specialists for that), but he's been eating pretty tough minutes. He's developed his defensive game quite well IMO.

The_Chosen_One is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:58 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.