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NFL Discussion Thread V (Surgery for Eli; Jets sign CJ2K)

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:21 PM
  #651
pdogfizzle
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
When has it been the Giants M.O to take receivers high up?

Cruz was late in the draft. Nicks like a 2nd or 3rd (I believe).

Earliest I see the Giants go to take a receiver, especially in this draft, is the 2nd. Earliest.

No pass rushers. You lost Linval, Osi, Tuck. Who are your linebackers? Beason and Herzlich? Kiwi? And your front 4? JPP and...

To make matters worse, you guys had one of the worst o-lines in the league last year. You signed 1 lineman, and still have no center.

No TE. No #2 WR. And a pair of mediocre (at best) rb's.

What won them both superbowls was their ridiculous front line. Both times they went all the way that was the defining part of their defense that really came up big for them. Their CB's/S's were guys who underperformed who greatly benefited from that front line.

I wouldn't expect Evans, or even Ebron. You guys have had just as many whole to fill as the Jets. The difference is that you guys were actually active. Still a lot of work to do for G-Men.

I'm gonna guess you get a pass rusher in the 1st. A lineman in the 2nd, whether it be o or d. Then go TE/WR in the 3rd.
Nicks was in the late 1st round.
Randle was a 2nd and Jernigan a 3rd or 4th?
Manningham I believe was also a 2nd rounder

So they draft some WRs early on. The thing is they havent had this high of a pick in a while so have no idea what they're gonna do. Ebron seems like a guy that would still be around into the late teens so I wonder if the Giants would ever trade down and take Ebron. If not, then I can see them getting a Dlineman in the first round and then an Olineman in the 2nd. Would love Evans but it just isn't a Giants move. Would be shocked if they picked him

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03-18-2014, 02:34 PM
  #652
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Pumped with how the roster is shaping up heading into the draft. We are gettin to a point where we can take BPA with every pick. Still a little worried about depth in the trenches on bth sides and at TE but there is still some time before the draft to add bodies.

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03-18-2014, 02:39 PM
  #653
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More depth on the defensive line needs to be a priority. Teams don't usually run well vs the Giants, but they are in trouble if that starts to change with the loss of Anvil.

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03-18-2014, 02:50 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by pdogfizzle View Post
Nicks was in the late 1st round.
Randle was a 2nd and Jernigan a 3rd or 4th?
Manningham I believe was also a 2nd rounder

So they draft some WRs early on. The thing is they havent had this high of a pick in a while so have no idea what they're gonna do. Ebron seems like a guy that would still be around into the late teens so I wonder if the Giants would ever trade down and take Ebron. If not, then I can see them getting a Dlineman in the first round and then an Olineman in the 2nd. Would love Evans but it just isn't a Giants move. Would be shocked if they picked him
Jernigan and Manningham were both 3rds. But you're right, Reese certainly hasn't been averse to drafting WRs early. Though I don't think they'll go that route this year, if Watkins or especially Mike Evans is there at 12, I wouldn't be surprised if Reese jumps on such a high value pick.

In the end though, I think they target O-line or D-line as early and often as possible. Pretty excited about the possibility of Ebron as well.

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:53 PM
  #655
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I like the way the defense is shaping up, but I'm worried it will be all for nothing if teams can run all over us, whose stuffing the run up the middle? Will JPP be healthy next season and is Kiwi capable of starting on the other end? Beason was great last season and Mcclain will fill in well on the strongside but whose covering the weakside paysinger? Still alot of holes to fill, and a good secondary wont mask that.

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03-18-2014, 02:56 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by SwedishBullet62 View Post
I like the way the defense is shaping up, but I'm worried it will be all for nothing if teams can run all over us, whose stuffing the run up the middle? Will JPP be healthy next season and is Kiwi capable of starting on the other end? Beason was great last season but whose he playing LB with? Still alot of holes to fill, and a good secondary wont mask that.
We had a great secondary the first year Cro was here. When push came to shove though, they couldn't stop a single important pass. With no pressure, a good QB can pick apart even the best of secondaries.

The best defense is a good offense. If you think about this just limited to the defensive side of the ball, the attackers (who i'm considering to be the offense in this metaphor) - i.e. the linemen, linebackers, and outside rushers, need to be good.

Maybe you guys can sign Wilfork. He'd help.

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:59 PM
  #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
When has it been the Giants M.O to take receivers high up?

Cruz was late in the draft. Nicks like a 2nd or 3rd (I believe).

Earliest I see the Giants go to take a receiver, especially in this draft, is the 2nd. Earliest.

No pass rushers. You lost Linval, Osi, Tuck. Who are your linebackers? Beason and Herzlich? Kiwi? And your front 4? JPP and...

To make matters worse, you guys had one of the worst o-lines in the league last year. You signed 1 lineman, and still have no center.

No TE. No #2 WR. And a pair of mediocre (at best) rb's.

What won them both superbowls was their ridiculous front line. Both times they went all the way that was the defining part of their defense that really came up big for them. Their CB's/S's were guys who underperformed who greatly benefited from that front line.

I wouldn't expect Evans, or even Ebron. You guys have had just as many whole to fill as the Jets. The difference is that you guys were actually active. Still a lot of work to do for G-Men.

I'm gonna guess you get a pass rusher in the 1st. A lineman in the 2nd, whether it be o or d. Then go TE/WR in the 3rd.
Our linebackers are actually pretty solid. McClain, Beason, Paysinger, JWill. I don't see the need to change that up all that much.

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Old
03-18-2014, 03:06 PM
  #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
We had a great secondary the first year Cro was here. When push came to shove though, they couldn't stop a single important pass. With no pressure, a good QB can pick apart even the best of secondaries.

The best defense is a good offense. If you think about this just limited to the defensive side of the ball, the attackers (who i'm considering to be the offense in this metaphor) - i.e. the linemen, linebackers, and outside rushers, need to be good.

Maybe you guys can sign Wilfork. He'd help.
Thats exactly why we desperatly need JPP to bounce back, Moore to take a step forward, and Kiwi to perform like a starter. Wilfork could help stuff up the middle, I'm sure there will be plenty of Veteran DT's releases before and during camp.

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03-18-2014, 03:15 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by SwedishBullet62 View Post
Thats exactly why we desperatly need JPP to bounce back, Moore to take a step forward, and Kiwi to perform like a starter. Wilfork could help stuff up the middle, I'm sure there will be plenty of Veteran DT's releases before and during camp.
Hankins should be great at stuffing the run. Also, we can re-sign Shaun Rogers.

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Old
03-18-2014, 03:19 PM
  #660
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Hankins should be great at stuffing the run. Also, we can re-sign Shaun Rogers.
Or Patterson

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Old
03-18-2014, 03:27 PM
  #661
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Or Patterson
I can't believe they haven't resigned him yet.

Hankins had really good PFF grades v run in his limited stats.

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Old
03-18-2014, 04:08 PM
  #662
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http://www.first-pick.com/NFL/Home.aspx

This is a fun mock draft game to play. It allows you to trade up/down and gives you a grade for each pick as well as an overall grade

Here is one that I just did (didn't want to trade picks because it could get a little unrealistic)...

Round 1 Pick 12: Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh (B+)
Round 2 Pick 11: Austin Seferian-Jenkins, TE, Washington (A-)
Round 3 Pick 10: Donte Moncrief, WR, Ole Miss (A)
Round 4 Pick 13: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas (A)
Round 5 Pick 12: Andre Williams, RB, Boston College (A)
Round 6 Pick 11: Michael Sam, DE, Missouri (B+)

Tough to judge how good of a draft this would be considering we are probably not done signing guys but as of now I would be happy with this.

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03-18-2014, 04:09 PM
  #663
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I find this both hilarious & awesome at same time. Coughlin is always on the clock.

@RVacchianoNYDN: Tom Coughlin already talked w/Holliday about his fumbling issues. "He said him and me were going to get real acquainted with ball security."

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03-18-2014, 04:28 PM
  #664
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I find this both hilarious & awesome at same time. Coughlin is always on the clock.

@RVacchianoNYDN: Tom Coughlin already talked w/Holliday about his fumbling issues. "He said him and me were going to get real acquainted with ball security."
I love it. If anyone can teach ball security, it's Sgt. Tom.


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03-18-2014, 04:40 PM
  #665
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I think it will be Ebron at 12. I rather it be Lewan though.

1. TE
2. OL
3. DE
4. LB
5. DT
6. K

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03-18-2014, 04:42 PM
  #666
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I find this both hilarious & awesome at same time. Coughlin is always on the clock.

@RVacchianoNYDN: Tom Coughlin already talked w/Holliday about his fumbling issues. "He said him and me were going to get real acquainted with ball security."
Lmao, that's the truth tho no matter how explosive he is if he's putting the ball on the turf he'll carve out a nice spot for himself on the bench.

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03-18-2014, 04:51 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Or Patterson
I wasn't impressed, but if he takes vet minimum he'd be a good camp body at least.

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03-18-2014, 05:32 PM
  #668
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I wasn't impressed, but if he takes vet minimum he'd be a good camp body at least.
He would be good for run downs where Jenkins isn't as good.

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03-18-2014, 06:11 PM
  #669
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He would be good for run downs where Jenkins isn't as good.
Jenkins may play more DE in the base defense.

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03-18-2014, 06:21 PM
  #670
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I think it will be Ebron at 12. I rather it be Lewan though.

1. TE
2. OL
3. DE
4. LB
5. DT
6. K
I think Lewan goes in the top 10.

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Old
03-18-2014, 06:47 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Jenkins may play more DE in the base defense.
I was thinking this but I doubt it. I think they pick up someone in the draft (Crichton in round 2 or Easley in round 3). Go with JPP, Moore, Kiwi, Rookie.

Jenkins may get some time at DE, but I bet it will be limited.

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03-18-2014, 08:35 PM
  #672
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Sounded like Moore was a hard worker this past season, hopefully he takes a nice step forward and can be a force on the D-line.

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03-19-2014, 12:45 AM
  #673
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I've really think the Giants have to be seriously considering Donald at #12. Even with an expected additional depth signing, that D-line is blatantly lacking a playmaker to compliment and relieve JPP. The rest of the defense(secondary and LB) just feels too filled out to invest the value of the team's #1 first round pick in, especially considering they're "going for it". Donald has the potential to add a very nice pass rush presence on the inside of that line. That being said, this is only because there just simply isn't any DE after Clowney that you could justify spending that high of a pick on.

The other option, and if it comes to it on draft day I bet guys will be sweating, would be the OT Lewan from Michigan. Granted, this is assuming no one drops, but Lewan is a fiery competitor, and could potentially become a franchise tackle for the team. The warriors on both sides of the line were a huge part of Coughlin's Superbowl teams, and drafting Lewan would be represent a potentially major move back in that direction. Finding an immediate starter for the O-line would be huge, and between Pugh, Schwartz, Beatty, Walton and Lewan, the Giants should be able to find at least a few guys who will be able to anchor that line for a long time.

And I will say, granted I didn't get to watch too much of Ebron live, from the tape I have seen, I really haven't been that impressed. To me, he looks like a player who relied primarily on his size advantage to make plays against smaller college level opponents, rather than beating them with any outstanding or particular football skills. Granted he's tall and long, but he didn't look thick or particularly fast, and I wonder how that frame will hold up when it's NFL level LBs coming across the middle on him. It's kind of hard to put into words, but to me, from the tape, he just doesn't look NFL level fast enough. If you're taking a TE near the top 10, you're expecting to get a difference maker, I just don't see that in Ebron.

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03-19-2014, 10:04 AM
  #674
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I think you need to watch some more of Ebron, then.

I agree with the rest of your post. It comes down to Donald, Lewan, and Ebron for the pick if you ask me.

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03-19-2014, 10:23 AM
  #675
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I think you need to watch some more of Ebron, then.

I agree with the rest of your post. It comes down to Donald, Lewan, and Ebron for the pick if you ask me.
Curious, Would you take Ebron over Evans?

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