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How do we get better moving forward? No pun intended

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Old
03-14-2014, 05:52 PM
  #401
Byrddog
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To apply subjectivity by scouts has a place particularly when drafting players. It is further important to be subjective when acquiring players into a particular system, lord knows every player for the Preds is looked at for there two way game. While it appears players for Edmonton in particular top 6 forwards do not need to play defense a lick. I agree there is a place for subjectivity, however when it comes to making the jump into the NHL it is more important to weigh heavily on past performance. Being subjective with Borque, Wilson and Stalberg have put this team in a bad place. There will always be peaks and valleys in performance but a baseline is critical. Expecting a player or a group of players to exceed there career highs to be competitive ahs been a huge mistake this year for this team. While individual down years can be explained on a player by player basis, it is unforgivable what has happened this year. This would in most markets cost the GM and coach there job. It is very doubtful that will be the case here this year.

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Old
03-14-2014, 08:27 PM
  #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
By subjectively evaluating talent and how their skills, work ethic, personality and other factors will translate to the NHL. It's what they get paid to do and have huge scouting staffs to do as well. If there was some magical statistical formula, then there'd be no need for scouts and drafts would be done by a computer print out.
Exactly. They're not sitting up there with some scoring correlation chart..

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03-16-2014, 08:29 PM
  #403
glenngineer
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Looking at the roster we have now and what I'd like to see done or for the lines to be.

Top 6

Smith-Wilson-TBD
Forsberg-Jarnkrok-TBD

Bottom 6
Hornqvist-Spaling-Bourque
Nystrom-Gaustad-Clune

Where do Fisher and Cullen fit in? Maybe Cullen on the wing with Smith and Wilson. Maybe Fisher with the Swedes on the wing? Gives both top lines some veteran presence but puts our best 4 young players in the top 6 to get the maximum minutes they should get.

Stalberg is the odd man out for sure. Trade him for futures.

If we are active in free agency I think we make a huge push for Stastny. I think if that happens you put Smith on one wing and not sure who's on the other wing. You can then move Wilson to the 2C role with Forsberg or Jarnkrok on one side with Fisher on the other. There are a few possibilities but not sure I'm excited about many of them. Depending on youth to produce and most of our young guys over the years have not been able to produce. We need more out of our top 6 for sure and I don't know that those combos work for getting bigger numbers. Even adding Stastny wouldn't be enough. I think we need to add two solid top 6 guys that could still blossom in to top 3 talent but there isn't anyone out there that fits the bill.

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Old
03-16-2014, 10:58 PM
  #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Looking at the roster we have now and what I'd like to see done or for the lines to be.

Top 6

Smith-Wilson-TBD
Forsberg-Jarnkrok-TBD

Bottom 6
Hornqvist-Spaling-Bourque
Nystrom-Gaustad-Clune

Where do Fisher and Cullen fit in? Maybe Cullen on the wing with Smith and Wilson. Maybe Fisher with the Swedes on the wing? Gives both top lines some veteran presence but puts our best 4 young players in the top 6 to get the maximum minutes they should get.

Stalberg is the odd man out for sure. Trade him for futures.

If we are active in free agency I think we make a huge push for Stastny. I think if that happens you put Smith on one wing and not sure who's on the other wing. You can then move Wilson to the 2C role with Forsberg or Jarnkrok on one side with Fisher on the other. There are a few possibilities but not sure I'm excited about many of them. Depending on youth to produce and most of our young guys over the years have not been able to produce. We need more out of our top 6 for sure and I don't know that those combos work for getting bigger numbers. Even adding Stastny wouldn't be enough. I think we need to add two solid top 6 guys that could still blossom in to top 3 talent but there isn't anyone out there that fits the bill.
I would rather keep Jarnkrok a center.
The biggest question mark would be a top line LW.

?-Stastny-Smith

Forsberg-Jarnkrok-Hornqvist

Stalberg-Wilson-Fisher

Nystrom-Watson-Sissions

That's a pretty decent lineup if we could get a legit top line LW.

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Old
03-16-2014, 11:11 PM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PFL615 View Post
I would rather keep Jarnkrok a center.
Nothing wrong with having future centers start out on the wing at the NHL level; indeed, it can potentially be very helpful. We acclimated Johansen that way and he's turning out great, and are doing the same with Jenner. And if Wilson keeps up his current play, he'll serve as a good local example of the same phenomenon.

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Old
03-17-2014, 12:48 PM
  #406
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To answer the thread's question in three words:

TAKE THE BODY

(and that means a whole different game plan, and a roster that involves willing, BIGGER players. This team is as soft as Nutella.)

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Old
03-17-2014, 01:26 PM
  #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PFL615 View Post
I would rather keep Jarnkrok a center.
The biggest question mark would be a top line LW.

?-Stastny-Smith

Forsberg-Jarnkrok-Hornqvist

Stalberg-Wilson-Fisher

Nystrom-Watson-Sissions

That's a pretty decent lineup if we could get a legit top line LW.
Moulson. I don't think he would play on that top line though, if we did get stastny. It could look like this on the top line. Moulson with Hornqvist and Forsberg with Smith

Moulson/Forsberg - Stastny - Hornqvist/Smith

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Old
03-17-2014, 06:43 PM
  #408
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I'm going to just put this here without comment:

Downie not in Flyers' plans

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Old
03-18-2014, 02:49 PM
  #409
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Look for more of the same next year:

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One of the chief problems the Predators face in making changes is that almost all of their forwards remains under contract for next season. The only pending free agents are Patrick Eaves, who has been a healthy scratch for the past three games after coming over in the Legwand deal, and Nick Spaling. Spaling will be restricted and has ranked among the team's better forwards this season.

In addition to Spaling, the forwards the Predators would appear of a mind to keep going into next season are Craig Smith, Mike Fisher, Patric Hornqvist, Eric Nystrom, Paul Gaustad and Rich Clune. That will make difficult decisions -- or moves -- on the others. Poile was asked if the fact that so many of his forwards remain under contract will tie his hands when it comes to trying to alter the roster.
Source: Scoring issues still plaguing Preds forwards - http://msn.foxsports.com/tennessee/s...orwards-031714

In the article, Poile mentions that the team might be able to make moves after free agency, after teams do not get what they want. We've heard that before.

Poile really screwed us over with the signings of the last two years. Some of us mentioned that they were bad deals at the time, but were met with posts about "back to Predators hockey" and "it's not my money, be glad it was used".

Poile was luckily able to get out of the Hendricks deal. Can he get out of the rest? Oh and by the way, the team lacks true offensive talent in the system. Maybe Forsberg who is having to round out his game and Jarnkrok, who projects to maybe be a second line center.

Hornqvist - 4 more years. His goal scoring is down. Looks to be dependent on other talent.
Fisher - 1 more year. Has looked terrible recently.
Cullen - 1 more year. Washed up and everyone knew it.
Gaustad - 2 more years. Pretty expensive fourth line center for a team who struggles to score.
Stalberg - 3 more years. Overrated player who succeeded on a star team.
Nystrom - 3 more years. Done well for the club. Should be used by Trotz on top lines for years to come.
Clune - 2 more years. More of the same. Team need to evolve past using such a useless player.
Bourque and Wilson having beyond disappointing seasons. Were expected to step up. Not top talent.

Only Spaling and Smith have seemed to do well.

There isn't a lot of hope for our forward core for the next few years.


Last edited by Jarnberg: 03-18-2014 at 03:02 PM.
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Old
03-18-2014, 04:03 PM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Look for more of the same next year:



Source: Scoring issues still plaguing Preds forwards - http://msn.foxsports.com/tennessee/s...orwards-031714

In the article, Poile mentions that the team might be able to make moves after free agency, after teams do not get what they want. We've heard that before.

Poile really screwed us over with the signings of the last two years. Some of us mentioned that they were bad deals at the time, but were met with posts about "back to Predators hockey" and "it's not my money, be glad it was used".

Poile was luckily able to get out of the Hendricks deal. Can he get out of the rest? Oh and by the way, the team lacks true offensive talent in the system. Maybe Forsberg who is having to round out his game and Jarnkrok, who projects to maybe be a second line center.

Hornqvist - 4 more years. His goal scoring is down. Looks to be dependent on other talent.
Fisher - 1 more year. Has looked terrible recently.
Cullen - 1 more year. Washed up and everyone knew it.
Gaustad - 2 more years. Pretty expensive fourth line center for a team who struggles to score.
Stalberg - 3 more years. Overrated player who succeeded on a star team.
Nystrom - 3 more years. Done well for the club. Should be used by Trotz on top lines for years to come.
Clune - 2 more years. More of the same. Team need to evolve past using such a useless player.
Bourque and Wilson having beyond disappointing seasons. Were expected to step up. Not top talent.

Only Spaling and Smith have seemed to do well.

There isn't a lot of hope for our forward core for the next few years.
at this point, I say don't sign either of the forward free agents we have unless Poile can dump some of the other forwards.

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Old
03-18-2014, 04:38 PM
  #411
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at this point, I say don't sign either of the forward free agents we have unless Poile can dump some of the other forwards.
I will say this...If we're looking at having Forsberg, Hook, and possibly Beck, Watson, Moser, and Sissons up next year, roster spots will have to be opened somehow.

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03-18-2014, 04:58 PM
  #412
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Why do I feel it's more like:

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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
I will say this...If we're looking at having Forsberg, Hook, and possibly Beck, Watson, Moser, and Sissons up next year, we'll have an excellent shot at drafting McDavid!.

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Old
03-18-2014, 05:06 PM
  #413
triggrman
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With Legwand, Dubnyk and Hendricks gone. How close are we to the floor?

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03-18-2014, 05:16 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
With Legwand, Dubnyk and Hendricks gone. How close are we to the floor?
Depends on where the floor is. Hockey Buzz Cap Central has us at $47M for next season, with Spaling, Del Zotto, Ellis, Ekholm all RFA and Eaves and Hutton as UFA.

If we re-sign all our RFAs at around current value, add in a 900k-$1M goaltender, and add Forsberg/Jarnkrok, then we're looking at around...oh, $55M or so? If we take the projections from December of around $52M for the floor, then we'll be a few million off it.

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03-18-2014, 05:18 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
With Legwand, Dubnyk and Hendricks gone. How close are we to the floor?
If we re-up all the RFA and sign Hutton again as a backup we would be at 56.3 or roughly 14.7 from the cap. That is with Beck, Jankrok, Forsberg, and Sissons on the roster, a roster of 24. Cap floor should be about 53 million. Finding a taker for Stalberg takes us to 53 with what we have.

And this is something we have to keep in mind too. We have to spend some money. We get rid of a Cullen and Stalberg we have to sign a FA to get over the floor. 16 million for your whole top 6 is a nice gift. You just have to make the right signing or trade.

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03-18-2014, 05:45 PM
  #416
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Here are my steps to success:

1.) Somehow get rid of Borque, Stalberg, Clune, Cullen, Spaling, and Eaves.

2.) KEEP Hook, Forsberg, Beck, and Watson in the minors.

3.) Refill the lost forwards with others from the minors.

4.) Horribly tank the season.

5.) Draft McDavid.

6.) Rebuild the forwards around Forsberg, Hook, and McDavid.

7.) Success.

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03-19-2014, 01:27 PM
  #417
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Joel Ward currently has 21 goals 20 assists for 41 point which would lead the Predator forwards right now.

This is just mind boggling.

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03-19-2014, 01:31 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Joel Ward currently has 21 goals 20 assists for 41 point which would lead the Predator forwards right now.

This is just mind boggling.
Yeah. Not overpaid now.

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03-19-2014, 01:39 PM
  #419
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The guy is not a top 6 guy but we could sure use those numbers on a 3rd line. Did we give up too early or just cheap out??? Both I guess

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03-19-2014, 01:43 PM
  #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamestheSame View Post
Here are my steps to success:

1.) Somehow get rid of Borque, Stalberg, Clune, Cullen, Spaling, and Eaves.

2.) KEEP Hook, Forsberg, Beck, and Watson in the minors.

3.) Refill the lost forwards with others from the minors.

4.) Horribly tank the season.

5.) Draft McDavid.

6.) Rebuild the forwards around Forsberg, Hook, and McDavid.

7.) Success.
So tank this season and next, leave all promising prospects in the minors (Jarnkrok won't like that) and hope we get McDavid next draft and a decent prospect this draft?

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03-19-2014, 02:06 PM
  #421
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The guy is not a top 6 guy but we could sure use those numbers on a 3rd line. Did we give up too early or just cheap out??? Both I guess
I'd rather have him than Stalberg, that's for sure. He wasn't all that great his first season there, but improved last season, and now has improved upon that this season. Getting a bit of a bump from PP time as well. Worth the contract, but still a 33-year old mostly bottom 6 guy. Meh...I don't know...

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Old
03-19-2014, 02:36 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Joel Ward currently has 21 goals 20 assists for 41 point which would lead the Predator forwards right now.

This is just mind boggling.
I was thinking about this yesterday. Same contract numbers as Stalberg. He plays a good even strength game. Plays on the PK. Plays in the corners. Bad move on our part.

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Old
03-19-2014, 02:48 PM
  #423
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Yeah, it's a shame we don't have Joel Ward now but I don't think anyone really expected him to explode for 20 goals this season. So in retrospect of course it looks bad. I'm not too upset and obviously we would like to have him for that price, especially in comparison to what stalberg brings in for the same pay, but if this just turns out to be a fluke season then it's really not that big of a deal. If Ward becomes a consistent 20-20 player for a few seasons in a row, then it starts to hurt.

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Old
03-19-2014, 08:35 PM
  #424
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On the main board, there was a question of what would your team roster look like in five years.

Just for giggles, I looked back at our roster at the end of 2010 - the last game of the Blackhawks series. This was our roster:

Arnott, Belak, Bouillon, Boyd, Dumont, Erat, Franson, Goc, Grebeshkov, Hamhuis, Hornqvist, Klein, Legwand, O'Reilly, Smithson, Spaling, Sullivan, Suter, Tootoo, Ward, Weber, Wilson, Ellis, Rinne.

The five in bold are currently on our roster.

This brings up two questions:

1. If we were to go back to 2010 and ask someone to pick the five guys who would still be on our team in 2014, do you think anyone would have gotten all five right?

2. Looking at our current roster, are there five guys you think will still be on our roster in 2019?

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03-19-2014, 08:45 PM
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhouk View Post
On the main board, there was a question of what would your team roster look like in five years.

Just for giggles, I looked back at our roster at the end of 2010 - the last game of the Blackhawks series. This was our roster:

Arnott, Belak, Bouillon, Boyd, Dumont, Erat, Franson, Goc, Grebeshkov, Hamhuis, Hornqvist, Klein, Legwand, O'Reilly, Smithson, Spaling, Sullivan, Suter, Tootoo, Ward, Weber, Wilson, Ellis, Rinne.

The five in bold are currently on our roster.

This brings up two questions:

1. If we were to go back to 2010 and ask someone to pick the five guys who would still be on our team in 2014, do you think anyone would have gotten all five right?

2. Looking at our current roster, are there five guys you think will still be on our roster in 2019?
Maybe Suter instead of Spaling, but the rest would have been on anyone's list.

My five for five is Pekka, Weber, Jones, Smith, and Josi

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