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IceCaps to be moved to Thunder Bay in 2016 or 2017?

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Old
01-29-2014, 11:04 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Disengage View Post
Off hand: Syracuse, Chicago, Hershey, Portland, Providence, Springfield, Norfolk, Grand Rapids, Milwaukee, Rockford, OKC, and Texas.

That said, it doesn't mean much. Teams don't have to be sold to move.
The Oilers own OKC. They are the former dormant Edm Roadrunners.

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01-30-2014, 01:25 PM
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remember Vancouver had Chicago last yr and then bought Peoria and then moved them to Utica NY, money does talk if the right person had the right amount of money any team that is not owned by a NHL team can be moved...

Secondly as far as the Montreal/Laval thing goes, yah Montreal does want to move there farm team to laval thats no secret... Just remember Global Spectrum/Bulldogs owner has already gone on to say either way Hamilton will have a AHL team or some kind of Hockey team in Hamilton even if they have to get another parent club..

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Laval can wait. The Hamilton Bulldogs aren't going anywhere for a while.

The Hamilton Bulldogs announced Friday the team has signed a new three-year lease at Copps Coliseum.

The team also renewed its affiliation with the Montreal Canadiens, with an option to allow the team to remain in Hamilton for an additional two years. The Canadiens have been the Bulldogs' parent club for the past 11 seasons.
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Speculation had been running rampant in the past year or so that the Bulldogs might be on the move to Laval, Que. In November, Montreal Canadiens owner Geoff Molson was in Laval to launch Place Bell, a $120-million sports complex that will include an arena. Place Bell is scheduled for completion in 2015.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...opps-1.1303620

So even if say after 2 yrs since that was signed in March 2013 that gives 2014, 2015, 2016 so that new arena could be done by 2015 just because Montreal could move the team in say 2015 for example, Hamilton Bulldogs are here regardless until 2016 unless they break the lease

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02-05-2014, 11:30 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by dre View Post
Not that I don't think this can work but I just wanted to point out that Thunder Bay lost its UHL and USHL teams. I know we are a hockey town and all but this is not exactly a slam dunk.
I hope like crazy this happens. I live an hours outside of town and would probably come for 5-7 games a year. But I agree, Thunder Bay only supports teams that win. The ThunderHawks/Senators/Thunder Cats were one of the best and toughest CHL/UHL teams for a while but once that changed attendance dwindled. Same could be said for the Flyers and USHL was a good brand of hockey. Once they became a lousy team the support dried right up. In baseball the Whiskey Jacks were a very hot ticket initially but that didn't last long and the Border Cats draw 300-400 fans a night.

The exception to the rule is Lakehead University athletics who draw well and not just for hockey. I think it has to do a lot with cheap tickets for students and a lack of other things for them to do on a Friday or Saturday night. I used to go to Thunderwolves hockey fairly regularly when I was a student there but I have no desire to go watch that hockey anymore with a million little kids running around screaming and not paying any attention to the game. (Maybe I'll go if my kids want to haha)

In short, I hope this happens and I can see it being wildly successful at first but fizzling out in about 6 years.

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03-12-2014, 06:14 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by nilan30 View Post
I hope like crazy this happens. I live an hours outside of town and would probably come for 5-7 games a year. But I agree, Thunder Bay only supports teams that win. The ThunderHawks/Senators/Thunder Cats were one of the best and toughest CHL/UHL teams for a while but once that changed attendance dwindled. Same could be said for the Flyers and USHL was a good brand of hockey. Once they became a lousy team the support dried right up. In baseball the Whiskey Jacks were a very hot ticket initially but that didn't last long and the Border Cats draw 300-400 fans a night.

The exception to the rule is Lakehead University athletics who draw well and not just for hockey. I think it has to do a lot with cheap tickets for students and a lack of other things for them to do on a Friday or Saturday night. I used to go to Thunderwolves hockey fairly regularly when I was a student there but I have no desire to go watch that hockey anymore with a million little kids running around screaming and not paying any attention to the game. (Maybe I'll go if my kids want to haha)

In short, I hope this happens and I can see it being wildly successful at first but fizzling out in about 6 years.
AHL is different. Watching the pipeline to the NHL is way more exciting than simply watching "good hockey". The fact that people are willing to spend on CIS hockey would suggest that people in Thunder Bay are starved. Personally, I won't go to a Thunderwolves game but I'll be in line to buy Season Tickets to our AHL team.

Also...


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03-13-2014, 04:48 PM
  #80
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Icecaps name is owned by St.John's and they will be keeping the Icecaps name when the next team comes

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03-15-2014, 10:13 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
AHL is different. Watching the pipeline to the NHL is way more exciting than simply watching "good hockey". The fact that people are willing to spend on CIS hockey would suggest that people in Thunder Bay are starved. Personally, I won't go to a Thunderwolves game but I'll be in line to buy Season Tickets to our AHL team.

Also...

Ice Caps brand is owned by Danny Williams an Co. Look for Tbays team to go back to being the moose

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03-17-2014, 01:57 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
AHL is different. Watching the pipeline to the NHL is way more exciting than simply watching "good hockey". The fact that people are willing to spend on CIS hockey would suggest that people in Thunder Bay are starved. Personally, I won't go to a Thunderwolves game but I'll be in line to buy Season Tickets to our AHL team.
I would disagree actually. The AHL season can really drag on where other leagues provide more excitement. In the US college hockey seems to be growing and getting more media time while AHL interest seems to be quickly weakening.

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03-17-2014, 02:08 PM
  #83
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I would disagree actually. The AHL season can really drag on where other leagues provide more excitement. In the US college hockey seems to be growing and getting more media time while AHL interest seems to be quickly weakening.
110 Straight sell outs in St.John's. Yeah no man, for sure seems like the AHL is weakening.

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03-17-2014, 06:38 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Newfy IceCapd View Post
110 Straight sell outs in St.John's. Yeah no man, for sure seems like the AHL is weakening.
Its not like their is a lot of competition for the entertainment dollar though and the arena is not that large. The Sioux Falls, SD USHL team had 95% of their seats sold to season ticket holders when I traveled there on business. You ever been there? There is nothing to do in the winter except go to hockey games or movies.

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03-17-2014, 08:07 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
AHL is different. Watching the pipeline to the NHL is way more exciting than simply watching "good hockey". The fact that people are willing to spend on CIS hockey would suggest that people in Thunder Bay are starved. Personally, I won't go to a Thunderwolves game but I'll be in line to buy Season Tickets to our AHL team.
watching the "pipeline" from the ahl to the nhl is actually not exciting at all. nobody will buy season tickets just to monitor or "scout" 3 or 4 legit prospects on the farm team.

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03-17-2014, 08:09 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Newfy IceCapd View Post
110 Straight sell outs in St.John's. Yeah no man, for sure seems like the AHL is weakening.
its pretty much terrible every else except st.john's. no other city in Canada actually wants an ahl team. people in st.john's are buying tickets because danny Williams tells them to. he could bring a junior c team to st.john's and it would sell out.

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03-17-2014, 08:26 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
its pretty much terrible every else except st.john's. no other city in Canada actually wants an ahl team. people in st.john's are buying tickets because danny Williams tells them to. he could bring a junior c team to st.john's and it would sell out.
There are 10 teams averaging close to 6000 or more a game. The AHL league average is over 5300. St John's is currently in 7th place with 6287. Toronto is 9th at 5965. Just how high does the AHL team or overall attendance have to get to not be terrible?

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03-17-2014, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
its pretty much terrible every else except st.john's. no other city in Canada actually wants an ahl team. people in st.john's are buying tickets because danny Williams tells them to. he could bring a junior c team to st.john's and it would sell out.
? isn't whether Danny Williams owns the branding in St. John's dba the IceCaps, when in fact it's True North Sports and Entertainment that has final say over the Jets affiliate club, just because they happened to buy the Jets, and shift the affiliate to St. John's, Frankie, if TNSE wants to move the affiliate to Thunder Bay, as is being rumored, Williams would have to buy the IceCaps outright to keep them in St. John's.

all TNSE did was lease the IceCaps for Williams to operate, going back to the original PSE. DW had the option to buy it outright after the 1st season, but has yet to do so, afaiu. that agreement may or may not have been revised, but if the IceCaps are to continue past 2017-18, WITHOUT Williams executing said option, bc he then would have to buy another franchise and relocate it to Mile One Centre without the financial backing of TSNE, IE funding the franchise costs to be an owner/operator.

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03-18-2014, 08:31 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by adsfan View Post
There are 10 teams averaging close to 6000 or more a game. The AHL league average is over 5300. St John's is currently in 7th place with 6287. Toronto is 9th at 5965. Just how high does the AHL team or overall attendance have to get to not be terrible?
at 5965 per game, and lets take that number at face value even though we know the actual attendance is likely half that number, in a city of millions, where the parent leafs are a stone's throw away, I'd say that's pretty terrible attendance. nobody cares about the ahl. no players aspire to play in the ahl. the league isn't on hockey's national radar whatsoever.

I was at the game in st.john's this past Friday. lots of empty seats. people trying to give away tickets free online, with no luck.

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03-18-2014, 12:06 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
DW had the option to buy it outright after the 1st season, but has yet to do so, afaiu. that agreement may or may not have been revised, but if the IceCaps are to continue past 2017-18, WITHOUT Williams executing said option, bc he then would have to buy another franchise and relocate it to Mile One Centre without the financial backing of TSNE, IE funding the franchise costs to be an owner/operator.
I've previously seen you make this claim in another thread as well; Williams never had an option to purchase the team per your claim, FYI, that has never been publicly reported or claimed anywhere - other than by yourself.

Chipman is clearly a staunch supporter of the AHL and was a member of the BOG Executive Committee at one time. Retention of ownership of the AHL team is a part of TNSE's organizational building plans; they are all about drafting and developing their own players in house, and about having control over the organization that is developing their players.

Do you have a link to support your claim that Williams had an option to buy the AHL franchise from TNSE, or are you just making stuff up as you go along?

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03-18-2014, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
at 5965 per game, and lets take that number at face value even though we know the actual attendance is likely half that number, in a city of millions, where the parent leafs are a stone's throw away, I'd say that's pretty terrible attendance. nobody cares about the ahl. no players aspire to play in the ahl. the league isn't on hockey's national radar whatsoever.

I was at the game in st.john's this past Friday. lots of empty seats. people trying to give away tickets free online, with no luck.
huh???????

then, Frankie, why did MLSE reject the lease parameters from SJSE when the Leafs were still in St. John's? their logos remained through the Fog Devils era as well as we've later found out.... the primary reason MLSE left is there's no more rivalries w/ any of the other Atlantic Canadian franchises, and they've all elected to go the junior route, as their economic model.. St. John's tried that and failed to keep the team when the owners hit financial ruin, much the way other Atlantic Canadian cities/ownerships failed or found out they couldn't sustain the losses financial.

TNSE=MLSE because they both can claim each affiliate team as a writeoff.

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03-18-2014, 02:27 PM
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at 5965 per game, and lets take that number at face value even though we know the actual attendance is likely half that number, in a city of millions, where the parent leafs are a stone's throw away, [B]nobody cares about the ahl. no players . no players aspire to play in the ahl. the league isn't on hockey's national radar whatsoever[/B].

I was at the game in st.john's this past Friday. lots of empty seats. people trying to give away tickets free online, with no luck.
Really? Where on earth are you finding free IceCaps tickets my friend? I've been on all the sites around here and people are selling them. Not free, The ahl is different as well. Th average family cannot afford to go to Weds, Friday and Saturday night. Saturday the stadium was full, weds was about 90 percent.


That's why there national broadcasted, you're saying nobody cares about the AHL. Nobody cares about the parent teams pipeline and future. Personally, I'm starting to believe you just don't like Danny Williams.

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03-18-2014, 07:02 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Newfy IceCapd View Post
Really? Where on earth are you finding free IceCaps tickets my friend? I've been on all the sites around here and people are selling them. Not free, The ahl is different as well. Th average family cannot afford to go to Weds, Friday and Saturday night. Saturday the stadium was full, weds was about 90 percent.
no problem to get free tickets, I was given tickets to Friday and Saturday games this past weekend. lots of empty seats Friday, and the entire 2 rows in front of me were empty Saturday night. oil company seats. they're often empty, but of course are paid for, so that's all that counts.

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That's why there national broadcasted, you're saying nobody cares about the AHL. Nobody cares about the parent teams pipeline and future.
yeah, they bury the odd ahl game on sportsnet one or sportsnet 360. its never on the national hockey radar. nobody really knows the ahl exists. major junior has a much higher national media profile.

4 ahl teams in the Canada, two of which are tucked away on the extreme opposite ends of the country, and the other two in the gta where nobody knows they exist.

my main point here is about those in and around thunder bay saying they'll go watch the pipeline of jets prospects. we heard the same thing from leafs fans when the marlies were going to Toronto. everyone couldn't wait to go to the games and pretend to be scouts. but we saw it doesn't work that way. you might go to a game or two to see a specific player, but that gets old in a hurry. it sounds nice in theory, and its easy to say you'll go watch the few prospects on the team, but you quickly realize its not nearly as exciting as it sounds.

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Personally, I'm starting to believe you just don't like Danny Williams.
I love danny. he's making a pile of money off this team.

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03-19-2014, 02:17 PM
  #94
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I love danny. he's making a pile of money off this team.
I agree with that, I'd love to actually see a glimpse of how much the caps make him

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03-20-2014, 03:22 AM
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I would disagree actually. The AHL season can really drag on where other leagues provide more excitement. In the US college hockey seems to be growing and getting more media time while AHL interest seems to be quickly weakening.
Have to agree. I often ask ECHL and AHL fans why they buy season tickets. It seems like as a bi sports fan its a waste. Seems like winning isn't the goal anymore and its all about developing. I mean who cares about a player once they leave your town? I don't.

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03-21-2014, 01:54 AM
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Have to agree. I often ask ECHL and AHL fans why they buy season tickets. It seems like as a bi sports fan its a waste. Seems like winning isn't the goal anymore and its all about developing. I mean who cares about a player once they leave your town? I don't.
Maybe in some AHL cities. People claim that the Chicago Wolves are the opposite. They want to win trophies and couldn't care less about development of prospects. I have heard the same thing about Milwaukee, but am fairly sure that it isn't true for the Admirals. It may not be true for the Wolves either.

I follow the NHL parent team (Nashville) and individual players. Probably 75% of the Preds played in Milwaukee. I still follow Rich Peverly, who has been out of the Preds organization for a few years. I know that he won the Stanley Cup with Boston and just had heart surgery. I couldn't care less about Radulov. I did enjoy seeing him make the Russians lose to the USA in men's Olympic hockey this year!

BTW, I am a 1/2 STH in Milwaukee. I don't have the time to be a full season ticket holder any more.

I don't know if the IceCaps can remain in St John's long term. Being an outpost is difficult.

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03-21-2014, 10:52 PM
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watching the "pipeline" from the ahl to the nhl is actually not exciting at all. nobody will buy season tickets just to monitor or "scout" 3 or 4 legit prospects on the farm team.
I disagree with you. I live in Winnipeg and am thrilled this city has NHL hockey again but really enjoyed watching players like Hodgson, Bieksa, Burrows, Mike Brown, and Kesler work their way up through the Moose and on to the NHL. There is something gratifying about seeing players toil and develop before they really make their mark at the big time. Seeing former NHLers like Keane and Helmer play out the string was entertaining as well. Don't get me wrong, I would have taken WHL any day of the week over the AHL as most Canadian cities likely would but AHL hockey was fast, gritty, and entertaining.

In addition, I saw my first college hockey game recently at UND as the Sioux played the Western Michigan Broncos and although the atmosphere and environment was great, the hockey was bland, overly structured, system oriented to a fault, and stifling. It reminded me of the 95 Devils against the 2002 Wild.

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03-23-2014, 08:57 PM
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I went from AHL to QMJHL and got use to the lack of speed and skill,u watch it for 3 years you get use to it,then the AHL came in for 3 exhibition games and its day and night the difference,the Q now would never work,most I talk to see the difference in speed and skill,id suspect it to flop worse,thou I don't see us even concidering a Q team,they eather get ECHL

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03-23-2014, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Newfy IceCapd View Post
Really? Where on earth are you finding free IceCaps tickets my friend? I've been on all the sites around here and people are selling them. Not free, The ahl is different as well. Th average family cannot afford to go to Weds, Friday and Saturday night. Saturday the stadium was full, weds was about 90 percent.


That's why there national broadcasted, you're saying nobody cares about the AHL. Nobody cares about the parent teams pipeline and future. Personally, I'm starting to believe you just don't like Danny Williams.
at end of day no matter how Frankie gets tickets their PAID FOR so fact seat sits empty I don't matter

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03-24-2014, 11:32 AM
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I went from AHL to QMJHL and got use to the lack of speed and skill,u watch it for 3 years you get use to it,then the AHL came in for 3 exhibition games and its day and night the difference,the Q now would never work,most I talk to see the difference in speed and skill,id suspect it to flop worse,thou I don't see us even concidering a Q team,they eather get ECHL
The Q is not an option.Danny Williams has gone on live during the AHL games and publicly stated. It's pro hockey or no hockey.Danny isn't interested in bringing a Q team here only for it to bleeeed money. Nobody wants to go watch a group of teenagers in a league that has zero/little value to their professional team. We have AAA here in NL for that fan base.

Danny wants to make money but also Ice a competitive team.Which is exactly what he is doing now.Nobody in NL believes that Danny is going to get anything less then another AHL team, and we all can say there is a 90 percent chance he gets one. There is ZERO negative feedback coming from having an AHL team here.

As for you Frankie. Its fine and dandy if you can get free tickets.Power too you, go enjoy great hockey this season for free. Those "Company" seats you talk about happen in every single organization in the league and the NHL. So I don't really see the point of talking about that. To say there are "plenty" of free tickets is just not true. Yes if you have the connections sure you can hook onto a ticket or two. Can an y tom dick or harry come in and grab a free game? No, absolutely not.

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