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Brandon Pirri dealt to Florida for a 3rd (2014) & a 5th (2016)

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03-20-2014, 06:35 AM
  #326
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Then the numbers are ********, and I was the biggest Pirri supporter on these boards for three years running. Pirri's defensive issues are overblown for sure and I feel like he never got a fair chance here. Stating that he's the defensive equivalent of Shaw, much less Sharp?

I'm a big proponent of the eye test when it comes to hockey. Advanced metrics lend themselves better to baseball/basketball. Soccer/hockey not so much.
Nobody ever stated Pirri was the defensive equivalent of anyone, except Bickell, and that was agreed with by Chelios.

Goal for =good, goal against= bad. I wouldn't really call that advanced metrics.

The fact that the goals against were relatively similar, supported my eye test, that Pirri was not as bad defensively as the detractors said. That's all and I think we wasted a very good young asset.


What's even funnier is that nobody even bothered to place the goals against, that I posted, to the correct player. The stats did not indicate that Pirri was better defensively, everyone just assumed that's what was indicated. Then the numbers bashers came out. Hawkaholic screaming context, Chelios with his cherry picking lament and you saying the numbers are BS.

The numbers indicate the chasm of Pirri's defense is but a mere rut rather than a cavern.

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Old
03-20-2014, 06:36 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Pirri has had no future with us. Thats because we have better players. Simple as that
Like Zus and Regin?

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Old
03-20-2014, 06:42 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Pirri has had no future with us. Thats because we have better players. Simple as that
I don't care about the future as much, but we currently certainly don't have a better option as long as Handzus is seeing regular minutes. Pirri gave us the best chance this year barring what Teuvo brings.

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03-20-2014, 06:44 AM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Nobody ever stated Pirri was the defensive equivalent of anyone, except Bickell, and that was agreed with by Chelios.

Goal for =good, goal against= bad. I wouldn't really call that advanced metrics.

The fact that the goals against were relatively similar, supported my eye test, that Pirri was not as bad defensively as the detractors said. That's all and I think we wasted a very good young asset.


What's even funnier is that nobody even bothered to place the goals against, that I posted, to the correct player. The stats did not indicate that Pirri was better defensively, everyone just assumed that's what was indicated. Then the numbers bashers came out. Hawkaholic screaming context, Chelios with his cherry picking lament and you saying the numbers are BS.

The numbers indicate the chasm of Pirri's defense is but a mere rut rather than a cavern.
And if you had simply said that instead of posting vagueness a dozen times I would've agreed with you. Pirri never got a fair shake here and the team suffered because of it.

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03-20-2014, 06:52 AM
  #330
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
And if you had simply said that instead of posting vagueness a dozen times I would've agreed with you. Pirri never got a fair shake here and the team suffered because of it.
It wasn't vagueness. The stats were what they were, people assumed they were cherry picked to serve an agenda and then went on anti Pirri, anti stat agenda.

I've often stated that Pirri's defensive inabilities was overblown, now there are statistics to support the position. My eye test and the statistics on Pirri's game are one in the same. If my eye test indicated one thing and the stats another, I'd be wrong.

Kind of like the faceoff issue many made fun of. Fortunately the Hawks knew it was serious enough to bring in an expert and Kruger has been a quick study and improved immensely under his tutelage. But hey, draws aren't important.

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Old
03-20-2014, 07:03 AM
  #331
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Again, nobody said faceoffs weren't important. People just thought they weren't as important as you and others made them out to be. Same thing with hits before that.

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03-20-2014, 07:14 AM
  #332
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Again, nobody said faceoffs weren't important. People just thought they weren't as important as you and others made them out to be. Same thing with hits before that.
And we paid 4M for Bickell ostensibly because he hits in the playoffs (which leads to offense).

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03-20-2014, 07:17 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
And we paid 4M for Bickell ostensibly because he hits in the playoffs (which leads to offense).
We paid Bickell 4M dollars because he was second in scoring last spring.

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03-20-2014, 07:23 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
KVS played 3 line opponents and did quite well. When he left the team it was speculated what he would do playing top 6 minutes. I proffered that he would not do well and that is how it played out.
Versteeg did just fine in Toronto and his only full season with the Panthers. You are really reaching here.

Quote:
You know when you play with 88, you're also playing against the guys playing against 88.
That would be more relevant if 88 went up against the opponents top shut down lines, but he doesn't, the Toews line does.

Quote:
btw Pirri's body of work to date is a 41 point pace for his rookie season. Nice try cherry picking the stats.
We are discussing Pirri's play with the Hawks. I fail to see how points scored with the Panthers has any bearing on that. Pirri scored at a 32 point pace with the Hawks. That isn't cherry picking stats, that is simply looking at his production with the Hawks this season.

It amazes me the lengths you will go to to try to prove some conspiracy theory, when the answer is obvious and right before your eyes. Again, you don't have to agree with it, but it wasn't some personal vendetta Q had against Pirri that prevented him from keeping his 2nd line C job. It was the fact that he didn't produce offensively, and isn't good enough defensively to play significant minutes if he is not producing. Again, the same rules apply to Bickell as they did to Pirri, even though the former has a much stronger body of work and a recent excellent playoff run under his belt.

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03-20-2014, 07:27 AM
  #335
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
We paid Bickell 4M dollars because he was second in scoring last spring.
Without the hitting, you have this season's Bryan Bickell.

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03-20-2014, 07:43 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
Versteeg did just fine in Toronto and his only full season with the Panthers. You are really reaching here.

With roughly 150+ more shifts in FLA, he scored 1 more point than his rookie year. Really stepped it up, eh?


That would be more relevant if 88 went up against the opponents top shut down lines, but he doesn't, the Toews line does.

The 88 line faces far better opponent's than KVS did his rookie and 2nd years.



We are discussing Pirri's play with the Hawks. I fail to see how points scored with the Panthers has any bearing on that. Pirri scored at a 32 point pace with the Hawks. That isn't cherry picking stats, that is simply looking at his production with the Hawks this season.
You have the same optometrist as Q apparently. The point is he could have been, would have been doing that here. Talk about obvious.

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03-20-2014, 07:58 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
You have the same optometrist as Q apparently. The point is he could have been, would have been doing that here. Talk about obvious.
And my point is that he did not show in his time with the Hawks that he could have, or would have produced the way he is with the Panthers. If only I could see the game within the game as you do, maybe it would be more obvious to me. But alas I (as well as Q apparently) am just a mere mortal who longs to have the insight of the great Marotte Marauder.


Last edited by Chelios: 03-20-2014 at 08:23 AM.
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Old
03-20-2014, 08:08 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
And my point is that he did not show in his time with the Hawks that he could have, or would have produced the way he is with the Panthers. If only I could see the game within the game as you do, maybe it would be more obvious to me. But alas I (as well as Q apparently) are just a mere mortal who longs to have the insight of the great Marotte Marauder.
For God's sake! The kid played in 28 games for the club and how many of those did he sit for extended periods of time?

Let's just see how the wunderkind is during his first 28 games and see if you and Q view him differently.

Deal?

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03-20-2014, 08:16 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
And my point is that he did not show in his time with the Hawks that he could have, or would have produced the way he is with the Panthers. If only I could see the game within the game as you do, maybe it would be more obvious to me. But alas I (as well as Q apparently) are just a mere mortal who longs to have the insight of the great Marotte Marauder.
The way some of you guys talk about Pirri, it is like he played 16 min/night for 2 full seasons at the NHL level.

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03-20-2014, 08:21 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
For God's sake! The kid played in 28 games for the club and how many of those did he sit for extended periods of time?
Let's just see how the wunderkind is during his first 28 games and see if you and Q view him differently.

Deal?
Exactly. That is essentially the only point many of us keep repeating.

I don't care who you are, you can't evaluate a player's long term potential in such a short time. Especially a young player who has shown steady imporovement at the AHL level, by all reports has worked hard on his game and strength, and who obviously has talent.

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03-20-2014, 08:23 AM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Without the hitting, you have this season's Bryan Bickell.
You misspelled effort. If Bickell went hard to the net every game, played physical in the corners and tried to be anything more than a perimeter player you'd be correct.

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03-20-2014, 08:31 AM
  #342
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You misspelled effort. If Bickell went hard to the net every game, played physical in the corners and tried to be anything more than a perimeter player you'd be correct.
Bickell's effort is manifest when he's playing physically,i.e. finishing his checks and beasting it up in front of the net.

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03-20-2014, 08:39 AM
  #343
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A bunch of crying over spilled milk is all I see here. Pirri is gone. No amount of coulda woulda shoulda will change that fact. Was it a mistake to trade him, some say yes and some say no. No one is going to change their minds.


Last edited by DisgruntledHawkFan: 03-20-2014 at 08:45 AM. Reason: Mod activity
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Old
03-20-2014, 08:47 AM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Bickell's effort is manifest when he's playing physically,i.e. finishing his checks and beasting it up in front of the net.
No doubt. The only thing keeping Bickell from being Milan Lucic is Bryan Bickell.

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03-20-2014, 08:54 AM
  #345
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The way some of you guys talk about Pirri, it is like he played 16 min/night for 2 full seasons at the NHL level.
My argument isn't, nor has it ever been, that Pirri was given every opportunity to showcase his offensive skills and succeed on the Hawks. My argument is against those saying he wasn't treated "fairly". He was treated like any other Hawk player: if you aren't producing offensively, you better be playing reasonably well defensively. Pirri simply didn't show enough away from the puck to justify him playing on a contending team when he wasn't producing offensively (which he wasn't since his first dozen games or so of the season). Its as simple as that. Like I have said before, you don't really have to agree with Q in that regard, but you have to admit that it is a reasonable position to take.

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03-20-2014, 09:06 AM
  #346
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No doubt. The only thing keeping Bickell from being Milan Lucic is Bryan Bickell.
And injuries. You try playing hockey with two knee braces.

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03-20-2014, 09:11 AM
  #347
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Advanced metrics lend themselves better to baseball/basketball. Soccer/hockey not so much.
Wait, really? You don't think advanced stats mean anything? Jeez...you're better than that.

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03-20-2014, 09:16 AM
  #348
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Wait, really? You don't think advanced stats mean anything? Jeez...you're better than that.
Didn't say anything, just that advanced stats aren't as useful as they are in other sports.

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03-20-2014, 09:18 AM
  #349
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Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
And injuries. You try playing hockey with two knee braces.
I'd like to believe injuries are a factor, but I've seen plenty of Bickell. He could be one of the games premier talents if he wanted to be. He doesn't.

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03-20-2014, 10:25 AM
  #350
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I'd like to believe injuries are a factor, but I've seen plenty of Bickell. He could be one of the games premier talents if he wanted to be. He doesn't.
Few power forwards can play their A game for a full schedule. Just be happy that Bickell has shown up when he is needed the most. He is showing signs of doing it again this season - IMO, he has been the best Blackhawk by far in the last few games. Loved the way he had a few guys backs, especially Kane last night. He scared Backus who didn't dare drop the gloves with another heavyweight, and kicked Simmonds butt the previous game.

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