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Game 70: Preds @ Canucks | 9:00 PM CST | FOX Sports TN | Is it over yet?!?

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Old
03-20-2014, 11:03 AM
  #51
Joe T Choker
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Originally Posted by weeze View Post
I don't have the will power or strength to suggest how to fix this. DEPRESSING!

Except Trotz is NOT the answer.
Neither is Poile

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03-20-2014, 11:08 AM
  #52
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I think it is perfectly reasonable to look at how Trotz handles a defenseman . I also think that he has earned leeway in this area.

That said:

MDZs strengths are on the power play, stretch pass, and in the transition game.

We have paired him with our weakest defensive defensemen, taken away all of his power play time, limited or outlawed the stretch pass due to our style of play, and neutered his transition game (largely due to the stretch pass limitations).

Round hole / square peg.

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Old
03-20-2014, 11:18 AM
  #53
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At this point I'm almost ready for them to race for the 'bottom' as much as possible... Calling up the kiddos from Milwaukee won't help the end result here this season and will be better served playing for a playoff-run in the AHL.

Plus, how many spots can we move up if we lose-out?
If we really tried I think at least 3rd or 4th

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03-20-2014, 11:35 AM
  #54
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If we really tried I think at least 3rd or 4th
And bumps up our percentage to win the draft lottery too right?

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03-20-2014, 12:08 PM
  #55
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Heaven forbid a coach has expectations for a player. But I guess that's just for HF board fans..... MDZ had the same issues in NY he got comfortable here and returns to doing what he wants to do. As the article points out he has 310 NHL games. He has always been touted as a offensive defenseman. Well how has he done since coming to Nashville? To save your time looking it up 3 assists in 18 games. Whats funny KK has had a goal and 3 assists in the Rangers uni. I never liked the trade and what does it matter we got a younger player that needs a new contract and to beat it all "Michael Del Zotto's qualifying offer is for $2,900,000".

MDZ's game is not a good fit for this team, he admits he loves the streach pass. Problem is we have nobody that can receive that pass. MDZ is weak in the corner and invisible most of the time. I do recall a nice hip check just after they came back from the break but other than that he has done nothing positive.

Poor Trotz gets hammered here for coaching and making coaching decisions. He also gets hammered for not doing so. WHile It would probably benefit Jones to watch a couple games from the pressbox if for nothing else just to see the way the other defenders play. Jones is a smart guy and is willing to change his game and get better. I just do not see that in MDZ.
Oh poor Trotz... He has been so steller getting the Preds picking in the top 10 probably top 5 the past 2 years.

Expectations for a player huh. Heaven forbid he have expections for a forward to produce.Colin Wilson, Gabriel Bourque, Matt Cullen....
Or even better yet heaven forbid people having expectations to have a winning team and a coach that is helping not hurting the team.

Apparently you don't recall several times MDZ set up other players perfectly and what happened??? Wait for it.....They couldn't finish..

MDZ has been a - for 7 games of the 18, 5 of those being a -1 with the Preds forward corps.

Poile said he brought MDZ to Nashville to help with scoring and offense but he has a coach who is making decisions to limit that and forwards who can't finish.

Obviously poor Trotz and Poile are not on the same page.

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Old
03-20-2014, 12:11 PM
  #56
Preds33
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
I think it is perfectly reasonable to look at how Trotz handles a defenseman . I also think that he has earned leeway in this area.

That said:

MDZs strengths are on the power play, stretch pass, and in the transition game.

We have paired him with our weakest defensive defensemen, taken away all of his power play time, limited or outlawed the stretch pass due to our style of play, and neutered his transition game (largely due to the stretch pass limitations).

Round hole / square peg.

This right here sums it up. How Jones/Ellis are on the PP when they have done NOTHING there and MDZ has not replaced one of them boggles my mind.

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03-20-2014, 12:31 PM
  #57
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I don't know about NOTHING. Jones has as many points on the powerplay as Smith and Wilson.

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03-20-2014, 01:39 PM
  #58
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I don't know about NOTHING. Jones has as many points on the powerplay as Smith and Wilson.
I didn't realize 8 points in 70 games was something to brag about. Ellis only has 5 points on the PP. Truth is one of them could have been pulled off and replaced with MDZ just to see if anything good would have happened. but I guess a combined 13 points on the PP after 70 games is enough to keep the 2 together.

Honestly it couldn't hurt at this point.

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03-20-2014, 02:26 PM
  #59
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Trotz excuse for sitting MDZ "His play has slipped" leaves me dumbfounded! If that is his reasoning to sit a player then how do we not have half of the team sitting the bench for their play "slipping"!

I think Trotz has lost his touch on reality about the team. Watching the game against the Nucks was painful to say the least! The dump and chase only to find the Nucks get to the puck before any of our guys was all I could take! No one can handle the puck with regularity. We get knocked off the puck, unable to carry the puck into the Off zone when on a PP is, is, I cant even come up with how bad that is! Our team speed, except for a couple of players, is slow.

I am just at a loss for what to do to help this team. I don't know how there is no discussion or rumor on replacing/firing Trotz. Except here on this board.

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03-20-2014, 03:52 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
I didn't realize 8 points in 70 games was something to brag about. Ellis only has 5 points on the PP. Truth is one of them could have been pulled off and replaced with MDZ just to see if anything good would have happened. but I guess a combined 13 points on the PP after 70 games is enough to keep the 2 together.

Honestly it couldn't hurt at this point.
It's my opinion that they have both done a good job on the powerplay. They are not Shea Weber though, they're not going to just blast pucks by goalies like Weber can. They depend a lot on playmaking, which is handcuffed with our forward group.

Do you think MDZ is a better playmaker than either of them? I don't.
Do you think he carries the puck into the zone (something our defensemen have to do) better than either of them, because again, I don't.

The problems we have some on our powerplay, isn't because our defensemen aren't getting it done, in fact, our defensemen are the main reason our powerplay is as effective as it is.

In no way am I saying that I'm fine with the powerplay, I just don't think replacing either Jones or Ellis, will fix anything.

Now, as far as an overall solution; that's above my pay grade.

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Old
03-20-2014, 04:49 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
It's my opinion that they have both done a good job on the powerplay. They are not Shea Weber though, they're not going to just blast pucks by goalies like Weber can. They depend a lot on playmaking, which is handcuffed with our forward group.

Do you think MDZ is a better playmaker than either of them? I don't.
Do you think he carries the puck into the zone (something our defensemen have to do) better than either of them, because again, I don't.

The problems we have some on our powerplay, isn't because our defensemen aren't getting it done, in fact, our defensemen are the main reason our powerplay is as effective as it is.

In no way am I saying that I'm fine with the powerplay, I just don't think replacing either Jones or Ellis, will fix anything.

Now, as far as an overall solution; that's above my pay grade.

There may be some truth here, it's just that both Poile and Trotz said Del Zotto was good on the power play when he was acquired, yet they have yet to use him there. To me I feel like Trotz is not using Del Zotto's strengths.

Why not give Del Zotto a chance there for 3-5 games and see if there is something there?

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Old
03-20-2014, 07:51 PM
  #62
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The problem I have w/ Seth Jones isn't his offensive upside but his defensive play. He is at -24. I mean what good is it if he scores some goals but then gives up a bunch of goals. I trust Del Zotto's defensive play more than I do Jones at this point even though Del Zotto's offensive play has been none existent. I think Jones still has alot of growing to do and so think it might be best to gradually get him ice time the better he gets rather than making him play so many minutes, especially since he is still so young and making mistakes but that is just my opinion.

I think down the road though Seth will get better each year and be a great player. Nobody is denying his talent, strength, and offensive upside/creativity. But to make Del Zotto seem like a poor player doesn't seem fitting either, especially since he hasn't even been on this team for very long compared to the others and imo I haven't seen him make many major/big gaffes. Yes he may go invisible alot of times but imo that's better than getting noticed for bad plays. I agree though that Del Zotto needs to work on his play and improve on his scoring/offensive play.


Last edited by klt2001: 03-20-2014 at 08:40 PM.
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Old
03-20-2014, 10:33 PM
  #63
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The problem I have w/ Seth Jones isn't his offensive upside but his defensive play. He is at -24. I mean what good is it if he scores some goals but then gives up a bunch of goals. I trust Del Zotto's defensive play more than I do Jones at this point even though Del Zotto's offensive play has been none existent. I think Jones still has alot of growing to do and so think it might be best to gradually get him ice time the better he gets rather than making him play so many minutes, especially since he is still so young and making mistakes but that is just my opinion.

I think down the road though Seth will get better each year and be a great player. Nobody is denying his talent, strength, and offensive upside/creativity. But to make Del Zotto seem like a poor player doesn't seem fitting either, especially since he hasn't even been on this team for very long compared to the others and imo I haven't seen him make many major/big gaffes. Yes he may go invisible alot of times but imo that's better than getting noticed for bad plays. I agree though that Del Zotto needs to work on his play and improve on his scoring/offensive play.
Too much ice time for any young player is not the best option in most cases. But in 24 hours there will be much gnashing of teeth here when Hook only gets 10 minutes or less. There are very few players that can come into the league at 18 or 19 and eat minutes and be effective be it defense or offense. Jones situation this year was doable with KK moreso since one of the younger guys was going to have to play top 4 minutes. The team would have been much worse if it were Ellis or Ekholm in that role???

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03-21-2014, 05:50 AM
  #64
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Not calling anyone out in particular, so no one take this personally.

I hate when +/- is used to describe any individuals play.

If you want to say Jones plays bad defense because he doesn't close the gaps quick enough, or he chases back out too high, doesn't keep his feet or stick active or just doesn't take the body enough. Those are all good talking points. The +/-, stat is effected by everyone one the ice as well as match-ups from the coach. To me it's the worst stat in hockey.

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03-21-2014, 06:11 AM
  #65
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As many other have said, part of me feels like that while MDZ hasn't been exactly lighting it up, he hasn't been put in the best situation to do that either.

You have an offensive defenseman ( on a team loaded with them ) who is getting no PP time, who is great at passing, but frankly doesn't have a whole lot to pass too, and then you complain about his production.

Yes I know Trotz knows his defensemen, but I think there have been far bigger issues from players than anything we've seen with MDZ.

He doesn't have the shot of Weber, and the one player we have that has the speed to take of advantage of his passing, Stalberg, can't put a puck anywhere near the net let alone get it in this year.

While Trotz is probably right, I think there is far more to the MDZ's issues than just him slipping.

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Old
03-21-2014, 09:26 AM
  #66
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Trotz was probably throwing Bartley a cookie for being the good trooper, playing in the game in his hometown.

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03-21-2014, 06:26 PM
  #67
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Not calling anyone out in particular, so no one take this personally.

I hate when +/- is used to describe any individuals play.

If you want to say Jones plays bad defense because he doesn't close the gaps quick enough, or he chases back out too high, doesn't keep his feet or stick active or just doesn't take the body enough. Those are all good talking points. The +/-, stat is effected by everyone one the ice as well as match-ups from the coach. To me it's the worst stat in hockey.
I'm going by the eye test. I have seen Jones get burned more than once where he would just let an opponent blow by him untouched and get scored on or miss manage the puck and it ended up in our net as a result. Something I haven't noticed as much by Del Zotto. I just used the +/- because it was easier than explaining what I haven't liked about Jones' play.

Like Armourboy stated, there have been far bigger issues from players than anything we've seen with MDZ. So punishing MDZ for the team's woes seems crazy. There are plenty of blame to go around on this team for why this season has been lacking. Why not punish them too?


Last edited by klt2001: 03-21-2014 at 06:55 PM.
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03-22-2014, 06:41 AM
  #68
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I'm going by the eye test. I have seen Jones get burned more than once where he would just let an opponent blow by him untouched and get scored on or miss manage the puck and it ended up in our net as a result. Something I haven't noticed as much by Del Zotto. I just used the +/- because it was easier than explaining what I haven't liked about Jones' play.

Like Armourboy stated, there have been far bigger issues from players than anything we've seen with MDZ. So punishing MDZ for the team's woes seems crazy. There are plenty of blame to go around on this team for why this season has been lacking. Why not punish them too?
Two possible reasons and these are conjecture because I can't confirm them. First, I think Trotz said he has options when talking about scratching MDZ. I assume he meant he has a acceptable level of comfort with Bartley. Secondly, I read somewhere that Del Zoto wasn't doing what the coaching staff was asking him to do. This sounds like the "details" Trotz demands. If the younger guys are doing what the coaching staff asks and MDZ isn't, that would be reason enough to sit him for a game or two.

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03-22-2014, 06:47 AM
  #69
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Watching Bartley in the defensive zone tells me MDZ will be back in the lineup soon.

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03-22-2014, 07:28 AM
  #70
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Two possible reasons and these are conjecture because I can't confirm them. First, I think Trotz said he has options when talking about scratching MDZ. I assume he meant he has a acceptable level of comfort with Bartley. Secondly, I read somewhere that Del Zoto wasn't doing what the coaching staff was asking him to do. This sounds like the "details" Trotz demands. If the younger guys are doing what the coaching staff asks and MDZ isn't, that would be reason enough to sit him for a game or two.
Seems fair enough then.

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