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Old
02-22-2007, 09:50 PM
  #1
frozenrubber
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2 Referee System

I have always been one of the larger advocates of the two referee system. If 45 refs ensured a better game, I would be supportive. However, the OT Jagr goalie interference call was the epitome of the flaw of the system. During this play, the in-zone referee, who had a perfect, unobstructed view of the play made no call. However, the trailing referee over a zone away stopped play and made the call.

In recent history, both the NFL and MLB have made great strides in using on field conferences for getting the right call. In regards to the NHL, I think the following changes should be made.

Either:

1) Only the local referee may call penalties in his offensive zone. In the neutral zone both referees may make penalty calls. This ensures a referee that is 80+ft away is never making trailing play calls. Add accountability to the local referee. Obvious exception would be major penalty assessment (similar to the current linesman input)

2) Referees may over-rule calls. The NFL has no problem in admitting mistakes and correcting a play and announcing "no penalty" on the play. I will always take a mistake stoppage of play over 2 of mis-awarded PP time. The local referee in this case saw no foul and should have the gumption to announce no penalty. The refs accountability is to the game, not to pride of his officiating partner for the evening.

Sports officiating will always be a point of contention, but the current two man system is inherently flawed in it's current iteration.

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02-22-2007, 09:52 PM
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The system is a disgrace and has been part of the ruination process of the league.

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Old
02-22-2007, 10:04 PM
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frozenrubber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
The system is a disgrace and has been part of the ruination process of the league.
The system simply will not be removed, that is why it must be tweaked/improved. The addition of the 2nd ref had the greatest of intentions, there is no reason why steps should not be made to have the actuality match this intention.

While some ideas are unworkable, I think the two that I outlined are easily implementable and would prove to be quite effective against the perils of the current system.

In a simple anecdotal account, at least 2 calls a game are of the "phantom" nature and greater steps to lessen these stoppages have not been made.

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02-22-2007, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
The system simply will not be removed, that is why it must be tweaked/improved. The addition of the 2nd ref had the greatest of intentions, there is no reason why steps should not be made to have the actuality match this intention.

While some ideas are unworkable, I think the two that I outlined are easily implementable and would prove to be quite effective against the perils of the current system.

In a simple anecdotal account, at least 2 calls a game are of the "phantom" nature and greater steps to lessen these stoppages have not been made.
What about the fact that there always seem to be plays were a Referee gets in the way. The less bodies on the ice, the better. That's just one argument of many against the two refs.

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02-22-2007, 10:17 PM
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SingnBluesOnBroadway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
I have always been one of the larger advocates of the two referee system. If 45 refs ensured a better game, I would be supportive. However, the OT Jagr goalie interference call was the epitome of the flaw of the system. During this play, the in-zone referee, who had a perfect, unobstructed view of the play made no call. However, the trailing referee over a zone away stopped play and made the call.

In recent history, both the NFL and MLB have made great strides in using on field conferences for getting the right call. In regards to the NHL, I think the following changes should be made.

Either:

1) Only the local referee may call penalties in his offensive zone. In the neutral zone both referees may make penalty calls. This ensures a referee that is 80+ft away is never making trailing play calls. Add accountability to the local referee. Obvious exception would be major penalty assessment (similar to the current linesman input)

2) Referees may over-rule calls. The NFL has no problem in admitting mistakes and correcting a play and announcing "no penalty" on the play. I will always take a mistake stoppage of play over 2 of mis-awarded PP time. The local referee in this case saw no foul and should have the gumption to announce no penalty. The refs accountability is to the game, not to pride of his officiating partner for the evening.

Sports officiating will always be a point of contention, but the current two man system is inherently flawed in it's current iteration.
Good post. I have long called for something like this. I don't know how one ref can make a call for another side of the ice.

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Old
02-22-2007, 10:24 PM
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JWINK19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
I have always been one of the larger advocates of the two referee system. If 45 refs ensured a better game, I would be supportive. However, the OT Jagr goalie interference call was the epitome of the flaw of the system. During this play, the in-zone referee, who had a perfect, unobstructed view of the play made no call. However, the trailing referee over a zone away stopped play and made the call.

In recent history, both the NFL and MLB have made great strides in using on field conferences for getting the right call. In regards to the NHL, I think the following changes should be made.

Either:

1) Only the local referee may call penalties in his offensive zone. In the neutral zone both referees may make penalty calls. This ensures a referee that is 80+ft away is never making trailing play calls. Add accountability to the local referee. Obvious exception would be major penalty assessment (similar to the current linesman input)

2) Referees may over-rule calls. The NFL has no problem in admitting mistakes and correcting a play and announcing "no penalty" on the play. I will always take a mistake stoppage of play over 2 of mis-awarded PP time. The local referee in this case saw no foul and should have the gumption to announce no penalty. The refs accountability is to the game, not to pride of his officiating partner for the evening.

Sports officiating will always be a point of contention, but the current two man system is inherently flawed in it's current iteration.

I'm a Devils fan, but I give credit where it's due. That is an outstanding post. Excellent job!

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02-22-2007, 10:38 PM
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http://www.canoe.ca/HockeyRefereeing/day2_p3.html

Here's a good read about the 2-man system.

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Old
02-22-2007, 11:18 PM
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Wasn't the point of the 2-man system to police the action behind the play while the ref near the puck could pay attention to that area of the ice? So why in the world is the trailing ref looking there? We don't need 4 eyes looking at the puck, we need 2 on that and 2 elsewhere looking for shinannigans and interference away from the puck. The idea isn't bad, but the execution is awful.

How many times has the trailing ref called a hook or a high stick when the other ref is standing there looking at the very same play, no less than 10 feet away... and how many times has that ref deemed the play legal (and correctly so) but it is irrelevant because the guy 100 feet away had a better view?

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Old
02-23-2007, 08:24 AM
  #9
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Frozen...

this is better than anything the league has come up with - I should actually say that it's quite good since the league's come up with nada.

One difference between the NFL and NHL is that the NHL play stops, and thus the non-call doesn't seem to be much of a nuisance. In the NHL, even if the call's reversed, we still lose what's great about any game, and that's the flow, since the call was made anyway to stop play. I think along with this needs to go a heck of a lot more training. These refs need to go back to school - go back and watch a ton of game tape and see and understand the mistakes they've made.

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Old
02-23-2007, 08:29 PM
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There is a word that I think sums it in a nut shell, terrible. They are inconsistant in that the ref right near the play makes no call and the guy half way or more down the other end calls a penalty. There is such a thing as coordination. There is such a thing as yielding to the guy right there. The NHL officiating was never great, but it was never this bad. Four officals is far too many on the ice.

As NYR fans how many times have we seen them get in the way of our players and interfer with play? It is routine in our games.

Here's another one I was thinking of today about Jagr and penalties. I would like for someone who has the stats to look up how many penalties Jagr has drawn vs how many has he been called for. I guaranty you he's had more penalties called against him. Guaranty.

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Old
02-23-2007, 09:23 PM
  #11
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Great post by frozenrubber.

I think Balej20 is also correct in saying that the referees get in the way too much.

I also think they should review calls, since there are 2 refs and if the closer one does not agree then they just drop the puck at center ice and start the action again.

I have seen in the past where they would overturn a call or admit they were wrong and not call a penalty but this has only happened in about 2 games out of the hundreds I have ever watch (in which there was atleast one questionable penalty in each game).

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:16 AM
  #12
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To be honest I think a big part of the problem is just incompetence anyway--on top of which there are teams some referees favor over others and then there's the 'hurt feelings-I'm going to get even with you' mentality of the majority of them. Sometimes I think maybe I'm lucky (like the other night) that the Sabres are slotted into the local programming so I don't have to watch them make a travesty out of the game.

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Old
02-24-2007, 11:45 AM
  #13
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I feel like when the trailing refs makes a call 2 things happen.

1, the local ref feels disrespected. Maybe he feels like the other guy is stepping on his toes or implying that he can't do his job on his own. So he is now going to start making calls (usually marginal) in the other guy's end.

2, usual the trailing ref makes the incorrect call. The local guy saw the play and knows that it wasn't a hook or a hold. So now he feels like he has to even things up and he will make marginal call during the pp or the first chance he gets.

I doubt this is the cause of so many ticky-tack calls, but it contributes.

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Old
02-25-2007, 02:45 PM
  #14
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Anything to cut down on the BS Penalties!

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