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Thu., Mar. 20, 2014| Stars 2 at Flyers 4

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Old
03-20-2014, 11:13 PM
  #126
The Couturier Effect
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The only thing I didn't like about this game was many of the Flyers deciding that trying to clear the puck up the middle is suddenly a smart idea. Almost cost them on a couple of plays.

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03-20-2014, 11:16 PM
  #127
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Look at the game summary and the balanced ice times. Top 9 forwards were about 15-16 mins and the fourth line chipped in when they could. Dmen had 20 mins a piece. That's using all of your bench. Chief has a good pulse on the team. Giroux had a tough 27min the other night. Nice to see him get a little rest

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03-20-2014, 11:19 PM
  #128
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Oh I forgot to post a celebratory dancing gif.



Keep it up boys!

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03-20-2014, 11:19 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by King Forsberg View Post
I really can't blame Simmonds for not jumping him then. It was during the playoffs. It ain't worth a suspension then. Hartnell did jump him but the Refs hopped in. Look what happened when Erskine went after Vinny. 3 Flyers including MacDonald in his first game here attacked him. I have no doubts the same thing would happen with Neal.
All games against the Pens are like playoff games, more times than not you're not going to see a guy jeopardize his team with a potential penalty like that unless of course it's Rinaldo or Rosehill who wouldn't likely be out there at the same time as Neal.

Hartnell would have likely received the Rinaldo special (9 minute penalty) if the refs didn't jump in there, Neal had no urgency to protect himself despite Hartnell doing that.

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03-20-2014, 11:21 PM
  #130
Jtown
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One bad period doesn't change the many entire bad games Grossmann has had. He's also the most one dimensional Dman on the team, when he's on the ice it's basically a 4 man attack with him serving as a rudimentary outlet to get the puck to his partner. Reminds me of Carle on offense in Philly, but with less passing ability.
I admit Grossman is bad on the offensive end and is useless there , but Schenn is useless anywhere near a nhl rink. Grossman can bodyslam anyone into the boards and never gets beats because he is out of position in the ozone or neutral zone. I cringe everytime luke has the puck in the ozone knowing that a blocked shot is going to lead to a breakaway.

Beef it isn't one bad period , its been all year. He gets the least toi, and it's not even close. He got scratched , there have been rumors all year about the disappointment in him by the organization.

I want to defend him, i would love it if he could become a matt greene type or even a poor man's Volchenkov ( when he was younger). But he is never going to become that guy. He is so slow and its a serious problem. He can't defend the front of the net and then get to the boards in time to get one of mac's board passes, or get to the opponent that is trying to forcheck. The few times he does attempt to go from the crease to the boards he often gets caught out in no mans land and is a disaster.

I don't know why I am the one that has to keep bringing it up. Just because his errors are not obvious does not mean they are not there. I really come across as a Schenn hater and that is not the case. I like the guy a lot and want him to be good.

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03-20-2014, 11:25 PM
  #131
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im neither here nor there on the Schenns.

but i strongly suspect both guys will be off the team going forward.

i just dont think the Brothers Schenn experiment has worked out like the flyers thought it would.

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03-20-2014, 11:26 PM
  #132
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It looks funny when I see Couturier and Read listed in the bottom six because only one forward on the team averages more ice time than those two and that's Giroux. I really believe that next season, Berube rewards them with more play in the offensive zone.
I'm not sure about rewarding them. He gives them tons of icetime vs. the other teams' best players and they do a great job - checking and keeping them hemmed in their own end. How many times did Benn's line have to spend a full shift in their own end? Quite a few.

They can't play Couts and Read on the PP too, or they'll wear out. Better to let the two PPs go, then come back with them the first shift after the PP, vs. the other team's top line.

The Flyers are just playing great hockey now against really fast teams. Which makes me wonder why people are so unhappy with so many of the players. Grossmann is a beast who does a lot of heavy lifting - and were going to replace him with a smurf? Schenn has to go too. Downie's starting to get healthy and he's skating well. He is also a warrior in the playoffs too, and a big game player. Vinny's playing well, so is Streit, but they were horrible acquisitions of old guys?

Seriously people, this team is the opposite of Lavy hockey. They play as a group of 5. Tight gaps. Hard skating both ways. They can hit or skate with anyone. When they go into the third period up a goal or two, they don't collapse - they press and score again. And when they get down, they come back.

Great goaltending, three solid D pairs, four lines that can put on pressure and score. Very good coach who doesn't panic. They seem to be confident they can beat anyone, and they are.

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Old
03-20-2014, 11:26 PM
  #133
Beef Invictus
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I admit Grossman is bad on the offensive end and is useless there , but Schenn is useless anywhere near a nhl rink. Grossman can bodyslam anyone into the boards and never gets beats because he is out of position in the ozone or neutral zone. I cringe everytime luke has the puck in the ozone knowing that a blocked shot is going to lead to a breakaway.

Beef it isn't one bad period , its been all year. He gets the least toi, and it's not even close. He got scratched , there have been rumors all year about the disappointment in him by the organization.

I want to defend him, i would love it if he could become a matt greene type or even a poor man's Volchenkov ( when he was younger). But he is never going to become that guy. He is so slow and its a serious problem. He can't defend the front of the net and then get to the boards in time to get one of mac's board passes, or get to the opponent that is trying to forcheck. The few times he does attempt to go from the crease to the boards he often gets caught out in no mans land and is a disaster.

I don't know why I am the one that has to keep bringing it up. Just because his errors are not obvious does not mean they are not there. I really come across as a Schenn hater and that is not the case. I like the guy a lot and want him to be good.
And despite all that, Grossmann has been worse.

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03-20-2014, 11:30 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
And despite all that, Grossmann has been worse.
If schenn was able to handle more toi then the organization would play him more. Grossman has been so bad, and yet he still gets more toi than Schenn? Do you think that is because schenn is better or worst than grossman?


Coaches ( in all sports) tend to give the best players the most minutes because you know they want to win.

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03-20-2014, 11:34 PM
  #135
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I think once in the post season you will see luke schenns playing time drop. It's not a sprint and there's a lot of season left to play. Gotta roll 3 d lines

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03-20-2014, 11:35 PM
  #136
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This is getting dramatic in here. Luke schenn was not anywhere near as bad as you are advertising.

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03-20-2014, 11:36 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
If schenn was able to handle more toi then the organization would play him more. Grossman has been so bad, and yet he still gets more toi than Schenn? Do you think that is because schenn is better or worst than grossman?


Coaches ( in all sports) tend to give the best players the most minutes because you know they want to win.
Why are you deferring to the coach's judgment? Have you really never disagreed with Berube? Or any coach, for that matter.

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03-20-2014, 11:38 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
If schenn was able to handle more toi then the organization would play him more. Grossman has been so bad, and yet he still gets more toi than Schenn? Do you think that is because schenn is better or worst than grossman?


Coaches ( in all sports) tend to give the best players the most minutes because you know they want to win.
the two of them have both been pretty bad overall

The positive is that they could be replaced with younger, better players next year and at a lower cost if they can get somebody to take Schenn's contract (not sure what's left or how much).

I really don't much like Brayden Schenn's game either. He's been ok but gets outplayed by everybody in the top 9 except Downie. I thought he was supposed to be really good. He's not even ok good...

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03-20-2014, 11:39 PM
  #139
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The bottom line in this "who's worse?" debate is that the line-up has 2 serious liabilities on the back end. I'd like to see Berube rotate Gustafsson - Grossmann - Schenn, at least to give the latter two the odd game off.

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03-20-2014, 11:40 PM
  #140
Jtown
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Why are you deferring to the coach's judgment? Have you really never disagreed with Berube? Or any coach, for that matter.

I have disagreed over situational things like starting Vinny's line in the dzone faceoff or having downie with Coots line.

But the decision to give schenn the least amount of minutes of any defender has been a consistent decision this season.

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03-20-2014, 11:40 PM
  #141
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I'm not sure about rewarding them. He gives them tons of icetime vs. the other teams' best players and they do a great job - checking and keeping them hemmed in their own end. How many times did Benn's line have to spend a full shift in their own end? Quite a few.

They can't play Couts and Read on the PP too, or they'll wear out. Better to let the two PPs go, then come back with them the first shift after the PP, vs. the other team's top line.

The Flyers are just playing great hockey now against really fast teams. Which makes me wonder why people are so unhappy with so many of the players. Grossmann is a beast who does a lot of heavy lifting - and were going to replace him with a smurf? Schenn has to go too. Downie's starting to get healthy and he's skating well. He is also a warrior in the playoffs too, and a big game player. Vinny's playing well, so is Streit, but they were horrible acquisitions of old guys?

Seriously people, this team is the opposite of Lavy hockey. They play as a group of 5. Tight gaps. Hard skating both ways. They can hit or skate with anyone. When they go into the third period up a goal or two, they don't collapse - they press and score again. And when they get down, they come back.

Great goaltending, three solid D pairs, four lines that can put on pressure and score. Very good coach who doesn't panic. They seem to be confident they can beat anyone, and they are.
some very good points there

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Old
03-20-2014, 11:46 PM
  #142
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The bottom line in this "who's worse?" debate is that the line-up has 2 serious liabilities on the back end. I'd like to see Berube rotate Gustafsson - Grossmann - Schenn, at least to give the latter two the odd game off.
It's not going to happen, Metzler wrote a piece on it a while back & said Gus is competing with Timonen, Streit, & MacDonald if he wants to get in, so unless of an injury he likely won't get a chance.

The Flyers want three offensive/puck moving defensemen (Timonen, Streit, & MacDonald) & three defensive/stay at home defensemen (Coburn, Grossmann, & Schenn) in the lineup to give a balance in the pairings.

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03-20-2014, 11:47 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
If schenn was able to handle more toi then the organization would play him more. Grossman has been so bad, and yet he still gets more toi than Schenn? Do you think that is because schenn is better or worst than grossman?


Coaches ( in all sports) tend to give the best players the most minutes because you know they want to win.
I disagree that Schenn is worse than Grossmann, but don't want to get in the middle of this argument.

I will say, however, that I wouldn't use the bolded argument when referring to this coach considering Downie is currently getting more icetime than Raffl and Gus is on the bench.

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03-20-2014, 11:49 PM
  #144
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I have disagreed over situational things like starting Vinny's line in the dzone faceoff or having downie with Coots line.

But the decision to give schenn the least amount of minutes of any defender has been a consistent decision this season.
Right. So if you disagree with situational things like that, then you can't use the fact that you agree with Berube in this particular situation as evidence of your case.

I mean, couldn't I just as easily say, "Downie's being used correctly because Coaches ( in all sports) tend to give the best players the most minutes because you know they want to win."

I'm not even touching your conclusion here which may or may not be accurate (though you know my opinion already). I'm just saying you can't play the Berube card thinking it is substantial justificatiion for your opinion.


EDIT: While I find Grossmann infuriating at times, he's rebounded lately, and given his body of work as a Flyer, I think it's okay to give him the benefit of the doubt here. I don't have a major problem with his usage.

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03-20-2014, 11:51 PM
  #145
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I disagree that Schenn is worse than Grossmann, but don't want to get in the middle of this argument.

I will say, however, that I wouldn't use the bolded argument when referring to this coach considering Downie is currently getting more icetime than Raffl and Gus is on the bench.
I think it was Hockeyfreak7 ? who brought up a good point. If downie was on that 4th line that line could not take a regular shift. Raffl is so important to that 4th line and you need that to give everyone else less minutes and more rest. Raffy has proven he is a talent that belongs in the top 9 but right now we need him on that 4th line.

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03-20-2014, 11:53 PM
  #146
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Decent game for the Flyers and a fun game to be at. Mason was great. Streit and MacDOnald were solid as well. Also thought the second line was pretty good this game in the offensive zone at least. Luke has been playing a lot better recently, but I agree with most in here that this wasnt a very good game from him.

Funny thing happened at the game though. I was watching warm ups right on the glass and I looked down for a second and Zac RInaldo crashed into the glass and it hit my head which made me bite my tongue. It hurt for a second butt it was worth it.

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03-20-2014, 11:56 PM
  #147
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Right. So if you disagree with situational things like that, then you can't use the fact that you agree with Berube in this particular situation as evidence of your case.

I mean, couldn't I just as easily say, "Downie's being used correctly because Coaches ( in all sports) tend to give the best players the most minutes because you know they want to win."

I'm not even touching your conclusion here which may or may not be accurate (though you know my opinion already). I'm just saying you can't play the Berube card thinking it is substantial justificatiion for your opinion.


EDIT: While I find Grossmann infuriating at times, he's rebounded lately, and given his body of work as a Flyer, I think it's okay to give him the benefit of the doubt here. I don't have a major problem with his usage.


No i can play the berube card because the times i don't agree with berube are when he only does things in certain moments. D zone faceoffs, having downie instead of read on the pp are my two biggest gripes sometimes. Those things have not been consistent all year since those are in game adjustments. Sometimes he chooses only giroux hall and coots for dzone faceoffs. And I understand the the reasoning behind downie on the pp.

However berube's decision to play schenn the least amount of minutes of any of our dmen is a decision that has been consistent all year. Never has he swayed from this decision.

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03-20-2014, 11:59 PM
  #148
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I think it was Hockeyfreak7 ? who brought up a good point. If downie was on that 4th line that line could not take a regular shift. Raffl is so important to that 4th line and you need that to give everyone else less minutes and more rest. Raffy has proven he is a talent that belongs in the top 9 but right now we need him on that 4th line.
And i'll admit, even though I don't agree, I can see that side of the argument as well, but it's just so frustrating that such a solid player is being used less than a player who deserves to be scratched...

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03-21-2014, 12:00 AM
  #149
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Because clearly I meant literally nobody. You're really grasping at straws here.

My point was it's not like I was the only one who thought it was a bad idea to start Emery against one of the best teams in the league, instead of the obviously weaker Stars. The smart thing to do would have been play your starter against the better team and play your backup against the weaker one. Playing the worse goalie against the stronger team doesn't make much sense. Obviously since they won you can be Captain Hindsight and pretend it was a smart move all along, but I know you don't actually believe that. I'd also like to point out that that in the same post where I clearly literally meant Berube had given up ( ) I said that they'll only win if they play 100% perfect in front of him (also not 100% literal). They basically did, they really controlled most of the game and made it very easy for Emery after the first couple of minutes. In the few minutes where they didn't play well Emery got exposed immediately.
I have never witnessed such an embarrassing meltdown after a win before.

I meant exactly what I said before the Chicago game - playing Emery was the smart decision given that Mason has just started two games in two days. Unlike you, I don't lie and then try and weasel out of it.

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03-21-2014, 12:02 AM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
If schenn was able to handle more toi then the organization would play him more. Grossman has been so bad, and yet he still gets more toi than Schenn? Do you think that is because schenn is better or worst than grossman?


Coaches ( in all sports) tend to give the best players the most minutes because you know they want to win.
It's because the organization has a bizarre fixation on players like Grossmann. He's also older, so it's hard to believe that doesn't also factor.

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