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Why was Snow so quick to get rid of Moulson

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Old
03-21-2014, 11:29 AM
  #101
24diving
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post

Here's my biggest question to those saying no:

What's the point in having tons of cap space if it's never used?!
Whats the point in spending 1st line winger money on a player that should not be on the first line on any team in this league, including our own team, as was shown in the playoffs last year....he just is not a first line wing! So the team should resign him to that money to have him be a pp specialist and not really slot in properly anywhere at even strength--cause he is an absolute liabilty in 2 of the three zones?

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03-21-2014, 01:59 PM
  #102
PK Cronin
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Originally Posted by Isles Fan View Post
Going back 4 years to make a comparison? Laughable!
That was my point actually. Comparing the two with their time here is a bit ridiculous. A player with 4 years of chemistry and knowing the coaches/system is a lot different than a player being brought in mid year and who knew he was being moved again mid year.

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Bottom line is Moulson and Vanek are very similar players production wise. Defensively both are nothing to write home about. Both like to stay down low and clean up garbage, although I think Moulson gets more greasy goals than Vanek does and Vanek has a better shot that Moulson does. Vanek is bigger than and a better passer and is more to make the highlight reel. Vanek takes off more shifts than Moulson does. At the end of the da, they very similar players player but Vanek is more flashy while Moulson more understated.
Vanek is better than Moulson. It's just not really that close. From a points standpoint you could argue they are close, though I don't think they would be if Vanek was playing Tavares for an extended period of time, but he is a 1st line player where Moulson isn't. Vanek more more defensive plays in 40 games than I saw Moulson make in 4 years. He's not great at it, but he's significantly better than Moulson in that area.

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The trade in itself crippled this team. Wrong move at the wrong time. Removing Moulson from the locker room had a profound effect on team chemistry and how they functioned as a group. By the time Vanek finally meshed in, it was too late. You have to remember that like it or not, Moulson was a huge, I cannot state that loudly enough, huge part of the team. Removing him from this equation took considerable time to get over it.
Pure speculation.

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03-21-2014, 03:11 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Why not sign mm at $6million/year? Here's my argument for:

-we have to spend to reach the cap
-mm made 3.9 this year. An increase of roughly 2million
-re-signing mm to 6 increases our hit by less than 3million
-with the cap going up significantly next yeR that increase won't be a lot proportionally
-we need a 1st line winger to play with jt. Mm has proven he can be that player
-we're not going to spend anywhere near to the cap anytime soon.

Here's my biggest question to those saying no:

What's the point in having tons of cap space if it's never used?!

Ps:we heard the "we need it to re-sign the youngsters" since 05/06 and guess what? We haven't had any issue doing that.
Why would you sign a player for 6 mil/year if they aren't worth 6 mil/year? Who are you the Florida Panthers GM?

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03-21-2014, 03:23 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by frankieboy View Post
Are you pointing that out to say that Moulson is AS GOOD as Vanek? You are losing me there, because I watched both players play, too. Moulson is a good player; Vanek is a better player. Go hit the main list and ask unbiased people the same question. You are not going to like what you hear if you believe Moulson = Vanek. Now, if you are pissed that we gave up assets when "scoring forward" was not our main need, and you are also pissed about how much we gave me, well, I'm on-board with your argument.
this post sums it up http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=97

Production wise they are the same, however Vanek at times shows he is a guy who has some serious skill, and when she shows it the fans are going crazy for him, but most of the time he is Oleg Kvasha out there

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03-21-2014, 03:28 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Why not sign mm at $6million/year? Here's my argument for:

-we have to spend to reach the cap
-mm made 3.9 this year. An increase of roughly 2million
-re-signing mm to 6 increases our hit by less than 3million
-with the cap going up significantly next yeR that increase won't be a lot proportionally
-we need a 1st line winger to play with jt. Mm has proven he can be that player
-we're not going to spend anywhere near to the cap anytime soon.

Here's my biggest question to those saying no:

What's the point in having tons of cap space if it's never used?!

Ps:we heard the "we need it to re-sign the youngsters" since 05/06 and guess what? We haven't had any issue doing that.
at this point I am against signing Moulson, unless Snow is off the team

I think bringing him back will put to much pressure on him and he won't be the same guy he was before the trade

Snow should have locked him up at 5.2 per year at 5 years which I can pretty much guarantee Moulson would have done at some point in the year

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03-21-2014, 03:35 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by OnceAgain View Post
Snow should have locked him up at 5.2 per year at 5 years which I can pretty much guarantee Moulson would have done at some point in the year
No one but Moulson and his agent can guarantee that he'd be ok with 5.2/5 when he wanted closer to 6/6. Haven't seen either say that he would have taken 5.2/5 to stay. Moulson is looking to get paid, and based soley on production he should-never have an opportunity like he has now which makes me think he asks for 6 and wouldn't have been likely to budge much lower then 5.5-5.7 let alone not all the way down to 5.2 since he knows some team that overpays every year like Florida will do so with him this off season.

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03-21-2014, 03:42 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Wedregast View Post
No one but Moulson and his agent can guarantee that he'd be ok with 5.2/5 when he wanted closer to 6/6. Haven't seen either say that he would have taken 5.2/5 to stay. Moulson is looking to get paid, and based soley on production he should-never have an opportunity like he has now which makes me think he asks for 6 and wouldn't have been likely to budge much lower then 5.5-5.7 let alone not all the way down to 5.2 since he knows some team that overpays every year like Florida will do so with him this off season.
whatever, then 5.5, 6 years is even better cuz maybe that would be an incentive to keep Tavares around when his contract is up

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03-21-2014, 03:45 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by OnceAgain View Post
Production wise they are the same, however Vanek at times shows he is a guy who has some serious skill, and when she shows it the fans are going crazy for him, but most of the time he is Oleg Kvasha out there
Except for the fact that Kvasha isn't anything like Vanek...

Kvasha put up over 50 points once in his career. Vanek has done it 7 times and was at over a PPG pace in the shortened season last year. Vanek's worst season is still better than every season Kvasha played but one. And at his worst PPG pace, he finished 3 points behind Kvasha's best season.

You look ridiculous when you make these comparisons. Not to mention the post you cited is just wrong. But if you want to keep living in some fantasy world where Vanek looks like Kvasha, except for the massive difference in every category, who am I to stop you?

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03-21-2014, 03:46 PM
  #109
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Ok when we're comparing Vanek to Kvasha it's time to lock the thread.

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03-21-2014, 03:48 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by seabass45 View Post
Ok when we're comparing Vanek to Kvasha it's time to lock the thread.
I agree.

The last question I'd have is, if Vanek looks like Kvasha, and Moulson is supposed to be as good as or slightly worse than Vanek, what does that say about Moulson's game?

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03-21-2014, 04:13 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by iLandHer View Post
Except for the fact that Kvasha isn't anything like Vanek...

Kvasha put up over 50 points once in his career. Vanek has done it 7 times and was at over a PPG pace in the shortened season last year. Vanek's worst season is still better than every season Kvasha played but one. And at his worst PPG pace, he finished 3 points behind Kvasha's best season.

You look ridiculous when you make these comparisons. Not to mention the post you cited is just wrong. But if you want to keep living in some fantasy world where Vanek looks like Kvasha, except for the massive difference in every category, who am I to stop you?
I said he looks like Kvasha out there at times, at times he looks like an elite player, and at other times he is reminiscent of Oleg Kvasha

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03-21-2014, 04:19 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by OnceAgain View Post
I said he looks like Kvasha out there at times, at times he looks like an elite player, and at other times he is reminiscent of Oleg Kvasha
Nope, you said, "but most of the time he is Oleg Kvasha out there."

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03-21-2014, 04:29 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by iLandHer View Post
Nope, you said, "but most of the time he is Oleg Kvasha out there."
well most of the time he is sure not an elite player

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03-21-2014, 05:36 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by iLandHer View Post
That was my point actually. Comparing the two with their time here is a bit ridiculous. A player with 4 years of chemistry and knowing the coaches/system is a lot different than a player being brought in mid year and who knew he was being moved again mid year.



Vanek is better than Moulson. It's just not really that close. From a points standpoint you could argue they are close, though I don't think they would be if Vanek was playing Tavares for an extended period of time, but he is a 1st line player where Moulson isn't. Vanek more more defensive plays in 40 games than I saw Moulson make in 4 years. He's not great at it, but he's significantly better than Moulson in that area.



Pure speculation.
No, you reached back 4 years ago to find stats that supported your argument. You went back 4 years to find stats that showed Moulson production less than Vanek's in same sample size. Cheapens your point.

Their ability is closer than you think. I get that you're a big Vanek fan or a Moulson hater and I respect that, but don't let that fog your judgment. Vanek is a floater and is as allergic to defense as Moulson is. I watch every game, even now and didn't see Vanek make anymore or less defensive plays than Moulson did. That said, being a two way player is not who Moulson is and if expect that from him then you are missing the type player he is.

As for speculation, not quite. Team was doing Ok until the trade and then fell off the earth. While vanek and Tavares did mesh it took quite sometime before that happened and the team suffered for it. If you cannot admit that then I cannot help you.

As stated earler, don't let your fandom fog what is real.

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03-21-2014, 06:06 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by OnceAgain View Post
well most of the time he is sure not an elite player
Just a tick under a point per game on a team with pretty craptastic goaltending and defense at times. A little health and more than 2 defensemen that can make an outlet pass and and over the span of a season, 80-90 may not be "elite," but it's the whole Islanders first line in the top-20 for scoring.

And for the record, I don't hate Moulson. Perhaps Lee's the most logical fit, as he's bigger than both Moulson and Vanek and he's already here, but I can honestly say I've seen Vanek skate back to close down an attempted breakaway at least twice. Neither player is complete, but I find it hard not to think there isn't a bit of a tendency to blame the step back the team made on Vanek when he's right up there with JT, KO and deHaan as players who aren't the problem.

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03-21-2014, 06:28 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Isles Fan View Post
No, you reached back 4 years ago to find stats that supported your argument. You went back 4 years to find stats that showed Moulson production less than Vanek's in same sample size. Cheapens your point.
What? I went back 4 years to show that it's ridiculous to compare their production with the Islanders at any point in time.

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Their ability is closer than you think. I get that you're a big Vanek fan or a Moulson hater and I respect that, but don't let that fog your judgment. Vanek is a floater and is as allergic to defense as Moulson is. I watch every game, even now and didn't see Vanek make anymore or less defensive plays than Moulson did. That said, being a two way player is not who Moulson is and if expect that from him then you are missing the type player he is.
I'm really neither a Vanek fan or a Moulson hater. Moulson did a great job for this team and organization, but I didn't want him signed for anywhere near the amount of years he was looking to get. That's not a knock on him currently, but more because I think he's going to fall off before that term ends. Secondly, Vanek is a bit of a floater but he definitely made/makes more defensive plays than Moulson, which shouldn't be confused with making a lot of defensive plays.

Vanek is better in almost every area of the ice. He's better at passing, stickhandling, along the wall, defensively, shooting, at ES, etc. They are 'close' in terms of production, but in terms of their actual skill sets they aren't as close as people want them to be. Both can be very useful to a team, but I didn't want either one playing next to Tavares.


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As for speculation, not quite. Team was doing Ok until the trade and then fell off the earth. While vanek and Tavares did mesh it took quite sometime before that happened and the team suffered for it. If you cannot admit that then I cannot help you.

As stated earler, don't let your fandom fog what is real.
The trade happened to early to claim that they were doing anything, whether it was good, bad, okay, or wonderful. To assume that the team fell off because of Moulson being moved is more than a bit short sighted and it is speculating. We also had the same November swoons with Moulson on our roster in the past. Tavares taking time to mesh with Vanek is true, and definitely didn't help, but Moulson wasn't even playing on the first line when he was traded.

To me blaming our poor season on the Moulson/Vanek trade is just dumb. I think you could make the argument that Moulson's chemistry with the team was important or that Vanek being the better player was important, but neither of those two things are the reason why our season went down the pooper.

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03-21-2014, 06:40 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Wedregast View Post
Why would you sign a player for 6 mil/year if they aren't worth 6 mil/year? Who are you the Florida Panthers GM?
Because we're the islanders and we HAVEto overpay in order to get ufas to sign with us

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03-21-2014, 06:41 PM
  #118
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Whats the point in spending 1st line winger money on a player that should not be on the first line on any team in this league, including our own team, as was shown in the playoffs last year....he just is not a first line wing! So the team should resign him to that money to have him be a pp specialist and not really slot in properly anywhere at even strength--cause he is an absolute liabilty in 2 of the three zones?
When's the last time we got a 1st liner via ufa?

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03-21-2014, 07:00 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
When's the last time we got a 1st liner via ufa?
What do you mean? Where you not around for the franchise changing signing of Boyes and PMB?

You know...after we let PAP go....to think...at one point we had PAP and Moulson...now....

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03-21-2014, 07:32 PM
  #120
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I have an idea for everyone's sanity.

He's gone and never coming back. It is time to let it go. Deal with it.

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03-21-2014, 08:26 PM
  #121
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What do you mean? Where you not around for the franchise changing signing of Boyes and PMB?

You know...after we let PAP go....to think...at one point we had PAP and Moulson...now....
You're saying you'd rather have PAP and Moulson over Vanek and Okposo? You cray cray.

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03-21-2014, 08:37 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Thatguystevie View Post
You're saying you'd rather have PAP and Moulson over Vanek and Okposo? You cray cray.
Okposo wasn't brought in by Snow.

Vanek wasn't going to stay here. Why? Because legit 1st liners don't sign with us! They're even more willing to take less money elsewhere.

Therefore overpaying 2nd liners (such as Moulson) is A LOT better than overpaying scrubs (see: PMB).

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03-21-2014, 09:53 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Thatguystevie View Post
You're saying you'd rather have PAP and Moulson over Vanek and Okposo? You cray cray.
No...I would rather have PAP, Moulson and KO...instead of just KO and the rights to some dude that had 6 goals last season for Frolunda! However Collberg does have some wonderful videos on YouTube showcasing his shootout skills!


Last edited by Not4u: 03-21-2014 at 10:04 PM.
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03-21-2014, 10:12 PM
  #124
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Why would anyone want PAP or Moulson on their first line? outside of the islanders, i think most teams want to win

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03-21-2014, 10:18 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by rockthecolitil2015jt View Post
Why would anyone want PAP or Moulson on their first line? outside of the islanders, i think most teams want to win
Who would want Brad Boyes or PMB on their first lines? Moulson and PAP don't look so terrible on those teams their on right now...you know...those 2 playoff teams in the western conference...

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