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Why was Snow so quick to get rid of Moulson

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Old
03-21-2014, 09:31 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by rockthecolitil2015jt View Post
Why would anyone want PAP or Moulson on their first line? outside of the islanders, i think most teams want to win
Who can the Islanders get to play 1st line wing that's better than Moulson? That's your answer.

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03-21-2014, 09:39 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Who can the Islanders get to play 1st line wing that's better than Moulson? That's your answer.
Maybe for star power for Brooklyn Garth can get Joel Lundqvist and try to pass him off as his brother...who now plays LW?


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03-21-2014, 09:55 PM
  #128
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Who would want Brad Boyes or PMB on their first lines? Moulson and PAP don't look so terrible on those teams their on right now...you know...those 2 playoff teams in the western conference...
you know those 2 playoff teams that arent playing PAP (injured a couple of times, but even when healthy not on line 1) or Moulson on their first lines you mean?

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03-21-2014, 10:14 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by rockthecolitil2015jt View Post
you know those 2 playoff teams that arent playing PAP (injured a couple of times, but even when healthy not on line 1) or Moulson on their first lines you mean?

Yes I mean PAP...the guy that has been injured all year...but when healthy plays the point on the Avs 1st PP unit...PAP the guy that had 4 less points last year than John friggin Tavares!

We can't replace a guy like P.A.," rookie Nathan MacKinnon said. "He's such a good passer, makes whoever he's playing with a lot better."

And that Moulson guy...u know despite sucking last year and this year...was still a top 20 goal scorer in the NHL the last 3 years! But instead of having them, I can want to win like you...you know lose one for nothing and trade the other with a 1st (that will probably be used to draft McJesus with our luck) for Sebastian Collberg....Are you Garth Snow?


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03-21-2014, 10:24 PM
  #130
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Yes I mean PAP...the guy that has been injured all year...but when healthy plays the point on the Avs 1st PP unit...PAP the guy that had 4 less points last year than John friggin Tavares!

And that Moulson guy...u know despite sucking last year and this year...was still a top 20 goal scorer in the NHL the last 3 years! But instead of having them, I can want to win like you...you know lose one for nothing and trade the other with a 1st (that will probably be used to draft McJesus with our luck) for Sebastian Collberg....Are you Garth Snow?
So let me get this right -- you are trying to say that because I don't feel that PAP or Moulson are remotely close to being the proper players for the isles first line -- that I must be happy with how Snow got ***** in the vanek trade and couldnt get a proper return for PAP. Where exactly did I mention anything about Snows asset management (or lack thereof)? I just said that both PAP and Moulson suck as top line players, and I continue to think that -- and are you really comparing Parenteau to Tavares?!?! really?

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03-21-2014, 10:30 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by rockthecolitil2015jt View Post
So let me get this right -- you are trying to say that because I don't feel that PAP or Moulson are remotely close to being the proper players for the isles first line -- that I must be happy with how Snow got ***** in the vanek trade and couldnt get a proper return for PAP. Where exactly did I mention anything about Snows asset management (or lack thereof)? I just said that both PAP and Moulson suck as top line players, and I continue to think that -- and are you really comparing Parenteau to Tavares?!?! really?
Yes...I compared PAP to Tavares....did you really say you can't win hockey games with PAP and Moulson on your roster...Garth...is that u?
Okposo has 5 less points than Kessel...is that making an observation or a comparison...

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03-21-2014, 10:33 PM
  #132
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Yes...I compared PAP to Tavares....did you really say you can't win hockey games with PAP and Moulson on your roster...Garth...is that u?
Okposo has 5 less points than Kessel...is that making an observation or a comparison...
no i didnt say you cant win hockey games with them on the roster -- what kind of bs are you making up now --

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03-21-2014, 10:37 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by rockthecolitil2015jt View Post
no i didnt say you cant win hockey games with them on the roster -- what kind of bs are you making up now --
I'm sorry...you said, a team doesn't want to win if you have them on your first line...lol...



Originally Posted by rockthecolitil2015jt
"Why would anyone want PAP or Moulson on their first line? outside of the islanders, i think most teams want to win"

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03-21-2014, 10:37 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Not4u View Post
Who would want Brad Boyes or PMB on their first lines? Moulson and PAP don't look so terrible on those teams their on right now...you know...those 2 playoff teams in the western conference...
Wait, so you're complaining that they sign guys like Boyes or PMB for not being good enough while simultaneously complaining about them moving Moulson and two picks for a guy that's better than Moulson? There's just no winning with you, huh?

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03-21-2014, 10:42 PM
  #135
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I'm sorry...you said, you don't want to win if you have them on your first line...lol...
Are you confusing me for someone else? I sure as hell don't know where you are getting this crap from --
I imagine your love affair with MM and PAP leads you to think the isles would be hoisting the cup if they had only signed and played them forever on line 1

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03-21-2014, 10:48 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Not4u View Post
I'm sorry...you said, a team doesn't want to win if you have them on your first line...lol...



Originally Posted by rockthecolitil2015jt
"Why would anyone want PAP or Moulson on their first line? outside of the islanders, i think most teams want to win"
[mod] Teams that wish to win the cup, which is doubtful in the isles case, will not have PAP and Moulson playing on their first lines, due to the fact that they are not good enough. Teams that do not have a chance to win the cup, or do not care to try as is the NYI management philosophy apparently, can put those players on the top line -- since winning the cup is not the goal.


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 03-21-2014 at 11:36 PM. Reason: flaming
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03-21-2014, 10:52 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Thatguystevie View Post
Wait, so you're complaining that they sign guys like Boyes or PMB for not being good enough while simultaneously complaining about them moving Moulson and two picks for a guy that's better than Moulson? There's just no winning with you, huh?
I love Vanek....did you think that we were resigning him? Did you even think we had a good chance? When the trade was made, did you not think that trading that pick would have made more sense for goaltending or a top 4 defensemen? Did you think this trade showed we arrived...when they paid Buffalo a 2nd just to get Buffalo to retain 20% of Vaneks salary? And yes as a member of a family that is a season ticket holder for decades...nope no winning with me....just lots and lots of Islander losses

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03-21-2014, 11:04 PM
  #138
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I love Vanek....did you think that we were resigning him? Did you even think we had a good chance? When the trade was made, did you not think that trading that pick would have made more sense for goaltending or a top 4 defensemen? Did you think this trade showed we arrived...when they paid Buffalo a 2nd just to get Buffalo to retain 20% of Vaneks salary? And yes as a member of a family that is a season ticket holder for decades...nope no winning with me....just lots and lots of Islander losses
The chances of signing Moulson and Vanek were equal. I don't know why you're assuming he would resign when he clearly was going to FA just like Vanek. The isles have needed goaltending, a top 4 d-man, and a top line winger for years. This addresses one of those needs. Maybe not the most important one but one of the glaring needs of the organization. You're stressing about trading a 2nd for an established NHL player? Oh, honey, I know this is hfboards but in the real world an established NHL winger> any pick or prospect.

They traded a "heart" guy and picks for a all round better player. That's the right move 100% of the time. This isn't the mighty ducks, little giants, or Pokemon where you can win through the power of love and friendship. In the real world talent beats out "friendship" and "heart" and sunshine every time.

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03-21-2014, 11:20 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Thatguystevie View Post
The chances of signing Moulson and Vanek were equal. I don't know why you're assuming he would resign when he clearly was going to FA just like Vanek. The isles have needed goaltending, a top 4 d-man, and a top line winger for years. This addresses one of those needs. Maybe not the most important one but one of the glaring needs of the organization. You're stressing about trading a 2nd for an established NHL player? Oh, honey, I know this is hfboards but in the real world an established NHL winger> any pick or prospect.

They traded a "heart" guy and picks for a all round better player. That's the right move 100% of the time. This isn't the mighty ducks, little giants, or Pokemon where you can win through the power of love and friendship. In the real world talent beats out "friendship" and "heart" and sunshine every time.
Dude...I think you are probably the only person on this board that thinks our chances of resigning Vanek was the same as Moulson. MM sounded like he was going to cry in his pregame interview on Tuesday. He never thought he was going anywhere and was shocked by the trade.

Vanek is the better player, no question...but left wing was not a major issue, defense and goaltending was. You will never convince me that trading for a guy that wasn't a major need and everyone and there mother knew was going to be a FA was a good one. There is a reason why our GM is a running joke. If Vanek comes back here as a UFA, then I completely agree with you. Then it was worth the risk. I guess we will see what happens July 1st, but I wouldn't hold my breath

Ps...we traded the 2nd so Buffalo would retain salary...meaning we gave away a pick because our owner was to cheap to pay the difference in Moulson and Vaneks salary


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03-21-2014, 11:39 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Thatguystevie View Post
The chances of signing Moulson and Vanek were equal. I don't know why you're assuming he would resign when he clearly was going to FA just like Vanek. The isles have needed goaltending, a top 4 d-man, and a top line winger for years. This addresses one of those needs. Maybe not the most important one but one of the glaring needs of the organization. You're stressing about trading a 2nd for an established NHL player? Oh, honey, I know this is hfboards but in the real world an established NHL winger> any pick or prospect.

They traded a "heart" guy and picks for a all round better player. That's the right move 100% of the time. This isn't the mighty ducks, little giants, or Pokemon where you can win through the power of love and friendship. In the real world talent beats out "friendship" and "heart" and sunshine every time.
This....also, it can be argued that much of the salt in the Moulson wound lives and dies in hindsight. I liked Moulson too, though (also thanks to hindsight, admittedly) having had a glimpse of Lee, I'll live with the dice roll of a former 6th round pick taking that place, if we're truly doomed to build only from within. He looks like he may do well at it.

The only thing I would have changed about that trade is the return - I wouldn't likely have played fiddle for Buffalo becoming Edmonton East, and I would have cooked up a bidding war in the West with Moulson or whomever else I could have traded. (Sidenote: Tweedle-Dangle (PMB) and Tweedle-Derp (Regin) should NOT have happened. 'The kids are alright,' but I would have sooner put Brendan Morrow on this team than either of those malakas, but that involves paying a candidate for the job of he next Brian Rolston to not be Brian Rolston. Good luck.)

If I had to trade Moulson early in the season, different package. If I had to trade Moulson for Vanek and then move Vanek again, I would have done it before the game of "Chicken" grew blatantly disadvantageous.

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03-22-2014, 07:56 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by rockthecolitil2015jt View Post
So let me get this right -- you are trying to say that because I don't feel that PAP or Moulson are remotely close to being the proper players for the isles first line -- that I must be happy with how Snow got ***** in the vanek trade and couldnt get a proper return for PAP. Where exactly did I mention anything about Snows asset management (or lack thereof)? I just said that both PAP and Moulson suck as top line players, and I continue to think that -- and are you really comparing Parenteau to Tavares?!?! really?
Moulsons not ideal or the 1st line--we agree on that. But what other options do the isles have? That's the one thing I haven't seen answered by Antony who doesn't want moulson back.

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03-22-2014, 09:36 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Moulsons not ideal or the 1st line--we agree on that. But what other options do the isles have? That's the one thing I haven't seen answered by Antony who doesn't want moulson back.
What other options are there, or what other options will the isles take? There's always T Vanek!
I agree the islanders will not go big and fill the hole with a true top line winger -- but that doesn't mean that that they should get locked into Matt Moulson for a 6 year big dollar contract--at some point we as fans have to hope that the team can be built to actually compete for a cup, and not just settle for "not good enough, but best we could do, because Wang is so cheap"

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03-22-2014, 10:39 AM
  #143
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The first bolded needs to be repeated like a mantra around here for some to get it. MONEY is why this team gave up so much for Vanek and got so little in return for him.

As far as them regretting the non-trades, Snow should if he has even a shred of professional integrity, but Wanger definitely isn't losing any sleep over it. Again, MONEY.
I meant that Anaheim might regret but you're correct.

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03-22-2014, 10:47 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Moulsons not ideal or the 1st line--we agree on that. But what other options do the isles have? That's the one thing I haven't seen answered by Antony who doesn't want moulson back.
Not that I'm chomping at the bit for it, but Lee's earning a look. We'd be better off with a more experienced option, but I'd prefer a player with an additional facet to his game. Don't get me wrong, I like Moulson, and I'd even take him back - AT $3.6/3 yrs. - but Lee's good around the next, built like the tank we're riding, and may not be *quite* as dependent on his linemates as Moulson the further along his game develops.

I don't like it at all, but since we seem to be stuck to being homegrown considering we'll get burnt again on a trade to improve the team, I'd bank on Lee taking that spot unless something drastic happens.

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03-22-2014, 11:01 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by rockthecolitil2015jt View Post
What other options are there, or what other options will the isles take? There's always T Vanek!
I agree the islanders will not go big and fill the hole with a true top line winger -- but that doesn't mean that that they should get locked into Matt Moulson for a 6 year big dollar contract--at some point we as fans have to hope that the team can be built to actually compete for a cup, and not just settle for "not good enough, but best we could do, because Wang is so cheap"
How would signing moulson to say a 5year deal @ $6mil a year hurt us?

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03-22-2014, 11:28 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
How would signing moulson to say a 5year deal @ $6mil a year hurt us?
True, we can finish bottom 5 with or without him!
With the shoestring budget this team has, committing that money and term to Moulson would be equivalent to a real team giving max money to him, and locking into a roster spot for 5 years with what I can envision as a nearly immovable contract, for a player that is not a game changer, would just be settling for at best, mediocrity. The good news for that deal would have been the fact that he can't slow down much with age!

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03-22-2014, 11:49 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by rockthecolitil2015jt View Post
True, we can finish bottom 5 with or without him!
With the shoestring budget this team has, committing that money and term to Moulson would be equivalent to a real team giving max money to him, and locking into a roster spot for 5 years with what I can envision as a nearly immovable contract, for a player that is not a game changer, would just be settling for at best, mediocrity. The good news for that deal would have been the fact that he can't slow down much with age!
Moulson wouldn't have improved our team this year (obviously). But next year he'd be an upgrade.

How is overpaying 1 player by $2million (I think he's worth around $4million) for 5 years a big deal? Especially when you consider that the cap is going to drastically increase next season?

Here's what people are forgetting: we're NOT other teams. We're the Islanders. We're one of the least desirable destination for players to come to. Our arena sucks (at least for next year), our managment sucks, our ownership sucks, our coaching sucks, our results suck....WHY would any player choose to play for the Islanders UNLESS we overpay them? The answer is: there is no reason.

So if we have to overpay players to come here (which I think just about everybody agrees with), that means the following:

-We don't get game changers because other teams are also willing to overpay them, thus we NEVER EVER sign ANY game changer VIA free agency. Who was the last game changer we signed from free agency?

-Since we can't (notice I used the word "can't" and not "don't") sign any game changers we can either overpay good players (Moulson), OR crappy players (PMB, Boyes, etc.). Who would you rather overpay by $2million? Moulson or PMB? If your answer is "neither", then you're ok with the status quo....something which I'm NOT ok with.

We haven't won a playoffs series in Ryan Strome's lifetime. That's PATHETIC. If we keep refusing to overpay players, we NEVER will.

Do you think Chicago cares that they gave Campbell an insane contract? Probably not considering he's sporting a nice ring on his finger.

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03-22-2014, 12:11 PM
  #148
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Moulson wouldn't have improved our team this year (obviously). But next year he'd be an upgrade.
I get what you are saying. I just disagree that signing Moulson will have any more of a positive effect on the outcome of this team than rolling the dice with Lee, Nelson or Strome in that spot over the next 5 years ... and I would venture to say that over the course of that 5 years, that having Moulson slotted in the top six will only continue to keep the team from winning a playoff series -- you see him as a part that would help achieve success, whereas I don't. I am not anti Moulson, honestly I admire many things about him as both a player and person. You and I just seem to disagree about his usefulness in helping this team succeed--and that doesn't mean I am telling you I must be right and you wrong--I could very well be wrong, but that is my opinion all the same.

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03-22-2014, 02:23 PM
  #149
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I'd like to see Lee scoring nicely next year. Strome I'd like to see better. If we added Moulson......even better. If we could get a better top line winger than Moulson? Dreaming, yes, but that'd be great. UNFORTUNATELY, we probably burnt that bridge, so instead of scoring depth, we lose Vanek and hope a kid becomes both of their replacements.

But if Moulson will take our money, even a slight overpayment, I don't know how anyone {other than a rookie fanatic} could be angry with our scoring depth.

Now if we add defense or don't, the GA will be our biggest concern. And getting mad we signed a Moulson or other scoring winger is lunacy. Blaming Moulson's defense for our lousy defensive unit and game play is like blaming the band on the Titanic.

Winger for JT is the need....BPA is my take, and unless you can get an upgrade who will stay or even just sign here, you take the BPA and worry about our defense with other moves. And goaltending. AND coaching. And GM. And our owner. And....

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