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Whatever happens, not even attempting to negotiate contracts with Souray and Markov..

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Old
02-24-2007, 11:53 AM
  #26
RussCourtnallsGhost
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Originally Posted by plafleur10 View Post
The beauty of it is we will know before Tuesday who is more naive (at least about the Markov signing "done deal").

The "sect" of gullible fans who see Gainey as sort of the next best thing after God and who see a masterplan even in his mistakes (and who also think it is right for him to outright lie to the media and fans to "keep them out of it" according to your "theory") (and who will not hesitate to personnally attack any poster who dares post against the "Gospel") or the realistic fans who point out mistakes when they believe they are made and who realize, amongst other things, that the field has been levelled by the salary Cap and taht there is no reason for the Habs, with the best fan base in hockey, to satisfy tehmselves just to be an average team and that this organization more tahn any other has a duty to always strive to be the best.

I, for one, am a proud member of the second group and, call me a "whiner", a "troll" (whatever that is), an "incredibly naive" person, a "Saturday morning whiner" or any other insult you can come up with, I will continue to voice my opinions here as I see fit (and will try to remain civilized despite your provocation).

I would also like to add that I belive the press and the fans have a fundamental right to the truth and that it would be very wrong to outright lie to them as you suggest, wrongly in my view, that Mr. Gainey has been doing.If Mr.Gainey does not want to divulge something, which is his right to a degree, all he has to say is "No comment" or "I would prefer not to discuss this at the time being" or, as the Habs like "policies", "Our policy is not to discuss contract negotiations" and taht does the trick.
To tell you the truth, I think you raise a valid point about negotiating contracts, although I think you're blowing it way out of proportion as we really don't know what goes on behind closed doors. But to suggest that Bob Gainey or any GM shouldn't have secrets is a bit ridiculous. Why should Gainey tip his hand to all of the other GMs in the league. In fact, I would say that secrecy/deception is an important aspect of a GM's job, I wouldn't want our players to know that they've been considered in a trade, it would be extremely demoralizing for them. So, if Bob Gainey deliberately says something misleading, please try to realize that he's not trying to mislead the fans, he's trying to mislead other GMs, which is his bloody job. Bob never tips his hand and he always has his poker face on. That's his job, if he has to lie/deceive to keep other GMs in the dark, I really don't care. It's not his job to keep fans like you and me informed about every little thing he does.

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02-24-2007, 12:02 PM
  #27
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Hmmmm

right now the team is in a life and death struggle to make the playoffs. Media is volatile enough in Montreal without dragging in negotiations to muddy the situation further. Second guessing the performance of players would soon follow. How can any of that be useful for the here and now circumstances?

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02-24-2007, 12:52 PM
  #28
plafleur10
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
OK ... SURE. He should just divulge what he is up to so that he can be taken to the cleaners when it comes to trades and contracts, or PISS OFF his entire team by saying I am offering so-and-so player for Jokinen but the Panthers do not want to bite.

I wonder how much the offered player will now want to go to war for the team knowing he is on the table.

Read the second part, the one you did not highlight!!!

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02-24-2007, 04:01 PM
  #29
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Bob Gainey's decision to negociate at the end of the season has its pros and its cons. Obviously the risk we may face is the possibility of one of our players being snatched by someone else and Gainey is aware of that. He openly said that he will not be able to sign all his UFAs. I think one of the advantage of it though is that every other team in the league is faced with resigning their own free agents. Some decided to give out ridiculous contract ahead of time without making the player tests the market to see what he is truely worth. I mean Brewer at 4.25 mill, yeah...right... Stupid moves like that make teams corner themselves in their own cap problems instead of having liquid assets at the end of the year.

One of the things believe Gainey probably believed in was that by having many pending UFAs on one roster, players would push themselves even more in order to raise their stock and earn a better contract next season. As a result, the team's overall performance increases. But the problem Montreal is facing is that that the media and the city is more concerned at who is going to leave, who is going to stay, or how much is so and so going to sign for rather that worrying about what is really at stake...the playoffs.

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02-24-2007, 04:12 PM
  #30
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Live Forever View Post

One of the things believe Gainey probably believed in was that by having many pending UFAs on one roster, players would push themselves even more in order to raise their stock and earn a better contract next season. As a result, the team's overall performance increases. But the problem Montreal is facing is that that the media and the city is more concerned at who is going to leave, who is going to stay, or how much is so and so going to sign for rather that worrying about what is really at stake...the playoffs.
that seems like a dangerous game to me... not that I think that it was his "plan", but to bank on players pushing themselves harder to raise their stock in a contract year pretty much signals that you don't think to highly of those players. Yes, everyone has an eye on the $$, but the kind of players that you want to build your team with are the ones who play hard, period. Contract year or not. If Gainey thinks Rivet/Souray/Markov will show their best only because it's UFA time, then WHY THE HELL KEEP THEM???

As for the media/fans, I don't think anyone is suprised about the speculation or the focus. You take a borderline playoff team (which is what we have become), and make 2 of their best players UFA's, then OF COURSE everyone is going to focus on that around the deadline... No one is suprised by this.

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02-24-2007, 04:23 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Stryder6 View Post
To tell you the truth, I think you raise a valid point about negotiating contracts, although I think you're blowing it way out of proportion as we really don't know what goes on behind closed doors. But to suggest that Bob Gainey or any GM shouldn't have secrets is a bit ridiculous. Why should Gainey tip his hand to all of the other GMs in the league. In fact, I would say that secrecy/deception is an important aspect of a GM's job, I wouldn't want our players to know that they've been considered in a trade, it would be extremely demoralizing for them. So, if Bob Gainey deliberately says something misleading, please try to realize that he's not trying to mislead the fans, he's trying to mislead other GMs, which is his bloody job. Bob never tips his hand and he always has his poker face on. That's his job, if he has to lie/deceive to keep other GMs in the dark, I really don't care. It's not his job to keep fans like you and me informed about every little thing he does.
There are only 9 commandments now lol

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Old
02-24-2007, 05:15 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Toro View Post
Gainey let Huet become a UFA last season and signed him when any one could have. But this is a very dangerous way of doing business.

I agree this policy is not a good one. It has to go.
It is dangerous....because all another team has to do is offer more money and then in order to keep them we have to overpay them and waste more money than we needed to....not smart at all!!!

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02-24-2007, 05:32 PM
  #33
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i guess i was off by a week on the huet deal? sorry

but i still don't like gainey's ways about this. Sure misleading other GM's is part of his job. But he has been very reluctant to do anything this season. It has pretty much cost us the good chance we had of finishing in the top 4 in the east and challenging for a cup. I say if we would have gotten even comrie, back when ottawa got him we would have never had that huge slide. An offensive center was our glaring hole then and is still there today. Sure comrie isn't the best choice but you get the idea. Gainey missed the boat in early january. Thats when action was needed. Now were in a race to find a solution to our problems when most other teams have already addressed their problems. the picking's get slimmer every day. Hope gainey has a miracle under his frown..

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02-24-2007, 05:34 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
It is dangerous....because all another team has to do is offer more money and then in order to keep them we have to overpay them and waste more money than we needed to....not smart at all!!!
Gainey waits until the end of the season..not until UFA season opens up.

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02-24-2007, 05:35 PM
  #35
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Ottawa is like 2-3 years ahead of us in their "focus". They "have" to win the cup soon. Beside cities like Montreal and Comrie dont mix well imo.

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Old
02-25-2007, 03:01 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plafleur10 View Post
The beauty of it is we will know before Tuesday who is more naive (at least about the Markov signing "done deal").

The "sect" of gullible fans who see Gainey as sort of the next best thing after God and who see a masterplan even in his mistakes (and who also think it is right for him to outright lie to the media and fans to "keep them out of it" according to your "theory") (and who will not hesitate to personnally attack any poster who dares post against the "Gospel") or the realistic fans who point out mistakes when they believe they are made and who realize, amongst other things, that the field has been levelled by the salary Cap and taht there is no reason for the Habs, with the best fan base in hockey, to satisfy tehmselves just to be an average team and that this organization more tahn any other has a duty to always strive to be the best.

I, for one, am a proud member of the second group and, call me a "whiner", a "troll" (whatever that is), an "incredibly naive" person, a "Saturday morning whiner" or any other insult you can come up with, I will continue to voice my opinions here as I see fit (and will try to remain civilized despite your provocation).

I would also like to add that I belive the press and the fans have a fundamental right to the truth and that it would be very wrong to outright lie to them as you suggest, wrongly in my view, that Mr. Gainey has been doing.If Mr.Gainey does not want to divulge something, which is his right to a degree, all he has to say is "No comment" or "I would prefer not to discuss this at the time being" or, as the Habs like "policies", "Our policy is not to discuss contract negotiations" and taht does the trick.
My friend, I am not putting forth a "theory" of what Gainey is doing, but rather fact. You can choose to believe whatever you want.

However, I do think it's laughable that you actually beleive that Gainey has never discussed contract with his top two defensemen. That's just plain hilarious to me.

As for your bit about the press and fans having a "fundamental right to the truth" I can only say, you need to a get a clue. You really think/want your GM to reveal every detail every deal? He will get ***** by agents and rival General Managers and crucified by the media. It's an absollutely absurd suggestion.

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Old
02-25-2007, 03:16 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
My friend, I am not putting forth a "theory" of what Gainey is doing, but rather fact. You can choose to believe whatever you want.

However, I do think it's laughable that you actually beleive that Gainey has never discussed contract with his top two defensemen. That's just plain hilarious to me.

As for your bit about the press and fans having a "fundamental right to the truth" I can only say, you need to a get a clue. You really think/want your GM to reveal every detail every deal? He will get ***** by agents and rival General Managers and crucified by the media. It's an absollutely absurd suggestion.

fwiw, I've heard it said that the org. has spoken to Markov {Meehan}, and even contacted Rivet {Morris}. As far as Rivet goes, one guy on the radio mentionned it in passing. Markov has been mentionned on at least 3 outlets. The scuttlebut in Mtl media was that no contact has been made with Souray [info from Souray's side].

I don't dispute what you hint at. I have no connections other than plugging in my radio or reading here.

I think Gainey maintains certain deniability in the way these things are handled. Julien Brisebois does his comparative analysis, Gainey says, go ahead and tell his agent that we're thinking this length and $ comparable to X player, how do you guys feel about that ? Gainey and Souray can claim to have had no contact. Just my thinking on this, I have no idea really.

I get frustrated with the org. because I have no feel for how they see the team going forward. Teams in the non traditional markets [hate that expression, sounds kind of demeaning], have their GM's doing local radio, being a bit more outgoing about their team. They need the buzz to sell the team to the community. Gainey needs to keep a low profile to keep his business out of the media/public. It's necessary, I guess, but nonetheless frustrating.

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Old
02-25-2007, 03:26 PM
  #38
Blind Gardien
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I get frustrated with the org. because I have no feel for how they see the team going forward. Teams in the non traditional markets [hate that expression, sounds kind of demeaning], have their GM's doing local radio, being a bit more outgoing about their team. They need the buzz to sell the team to the community. Gainey needs to keep a low profile to keep his business out of the media/public. It's necessary, I guess, but nonetheless frustrating.
I wonder how Gainey ran his show in Dallas, then, relative to here? i.e. Is it really a conscious effort to keep the habarazzi hordes at bay somewhat, or is it more just a reflection of his personality and style? (One could rather easily believe in the latter, methinks).

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Old
02-25-2007, 03:57 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I wonder how Gainey ran his show in Dallas, then, relative to here? i.e. Is it really a conscious effort to keep the habarazzi hordes at bay somewhat, or is it more just a reflection of his personality and style? (One could rather easily believe in the latter, methinks).
Maybe, to an extent I guess.

I do think it's gotten to the point with the sheer volume of media, a guy can't use a Red Fisher to float a rumour or 3rd party information the way they used to. You play give and take with the media now, there will be a heavy price to pay.

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Old
02-25-2007, 03:57 PM
  #40
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I have enjoyed the discussion.

I too think that Gainey is playing "roulette" with the team's future. In a simple "assets management" perspective, the HABS have to know what their UFA's intend to do at the end of the year. If for example, behind the scenes Markov has agreed to a contract extension etc then I can understand Gainey's silence. If, on the otherhand, Souray intends to test the market-be closer to his daughter, with the kind of year he is having, he will fetch $$$ and possible be out of the HABS plans? Speculating that this may be true, it would be in the organizations best interest IMO to trade that asset ( Souray ) for something, rather than lose him for nothing. Getzlaf, Carle etc would be nice, young additions to the organization that already has many young, skilled hopefuls. The future looks brighter than the present. Based on that, letting Souray, Rivet and/or Markov walk for nothing in return would be huge steps backwards.

It ALL comes down to trust and I am trusting that BG knows what he is doing.

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