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Old
02-24-2007, 05:18 PM
  #1
Miller Time
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Sellers only...

This thread is only for those habs fans that are leaning more towards encouraging Gainey to manage the teams assets with long-term focus in mind come the deadline... If you disagree with this approach all together, no need to reply.

If you agree, and want to see what kind of assets our current commodities can get us, please post the deal (s) you'd like to see come tuesday here.

here's 2 from my end...

to Edm:
Souray, Perez, Rivet

to Mtl:
Torres, M-A Pouliot, Gerbeskov (sp?), Ahn's 1st 07,

to Pitt
Kovy, bouillion

to Mtl:
Welch, 1st 07

next season:

Higgins- Koivu- Ryder
Samsonov- Pleks- Kots
Torres- Bonk/Johnson - Pouliot
Begin- Lapierre - Lats
Milroy,Grabs, Chipchura

Markov-Komi
Streit- UFA
Dandy- Gerbeshkov
Welch

Huet
Halak

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Old
02-24-2007, 05:51 PM
  #2
Le Tricolore
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why would the oilers want two impending UFAs?

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Old
02-24-2007, 05:54 PM
  #3
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Well, based on rumors, this is the club we could build without losing too much:

To SJ:
Souray

To MTL:
Carle, Pavelski

-------

To ANA:
Koivu

To MTL:
Ryan and a 1st round pick

--------

To MIN:
Markov

To MTL:
Pouliot and a 1st round pick

---------

Rivet, Niinimaa, Aebischer for any semi-decent prospect from a team who needs depth.

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Old
02-24-2007, 05:58 PM
  #4
LesHabsRock
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With all due respect, I still don't understand why you believe Montreal should be sellers unless you don't want them to be in the playoffs. I understand you created this thread for those who buy into your theory, but you can't expect a thread like this to stick without some sort of debate. That's the point of forums is to discuss or debate hockey issues.

Montreal is in 8th spot after the Isles game. They're only a few points out of 5th. Montreal is in the playoffs and, therefore, should be buying a player to move higher in the standings with 18 games remaining. If they trade Souray that means they've given up on the season. Unless you're Washington or Philly in the East you're a buyer.

The Calgary Flames are 8th place in the West. Should they also be sellers?

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:00 PM
  #5
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Why would Edmonton want Souray at this point? They won't make the playoffs!

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:02 PM
  #6
LesHabsRock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
Why would Edmonton want Souray at this point? They won't make the playoffs!
Good point. He considers Montreal a seller, yet indicates Edmonton who probably won't make the playoffs, a buyer

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:03 PM
  #7
SpreeEndaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
With all due respect, I still don't understand why you believe Montreal should be sellers unless you don't want them to be in the playoffs. I understand you created this thread for those who buy into your theory, but you can't expect a thread like this to stick without some sort of debate. That's the point of forums is to discuss or debate hockey issues.

Montreal is in 8th spot after the Isles game. They're only a few points out of 5th. Montreal is in the playoffs and, therefore, should be buying a player to move higher in the standings with 18 games remaining. If they trade Souray that means they've given up on the season. Unless you're Washington or Philly in the East you're a buyer.

The Calgary Flames are 8th place in the West. Should they also be sellers?
With all due respect, with so many buyers, wouldn't it be the best year to rebuild by trading our UFA stars or even stars we don't need?

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:06 PM
  #8
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Edmonton out of the playoffs=Buyer
Montreal in the playoffs race=Sellers
What is hard to understand?

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:06 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
With all due respect, I still don't understand why you believe Montreal should be sellers unless you don't want them to be in the playoffs. I understand you created this thread for those who buy into your theory, but you can't expect a thread like this to stick without some sort of debate. That's the point of forums is to discuss or debate hockey issues.

Montreal is in 8th spot after the Isles game. They're only a few points out of 5th. Montreal is in the playoffs and, therefore, should be buying a player to move higher in the standings with 18 games remaining. If they trade Souray that means they've given up on the season. Unless you're Washington or Philly in the East you're a buyer.

The Calgary Flames are 8th place in the West. Should they also be sellers?
I understand what you mean; it's quite a dilemma indeed.

I think the habs should be sellers only if some team is ready to give them a lot for a guy like Souray. But if we trade Souray, it's bye bye to the playoffs for sure.

The other thing is, we are probably heading to another early exit(i know in 93 and 86 no one had seen it coming, but we've seen it coming for the last ten years and it's enough), so maybe gainey should think about the future.

But what does Gillet want in all this? losing Souray this summer and make the playoffs at 1 mil per home game, or get something decent for souray, miss the playoffs and build for the future? I think it's going to depend on him, I don't know what's his policy on this.

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:10 PM
  #10
LesHabsRock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
With all due respect, with so many buyers, wouldn't it be the best year to rebuild by trading our UFA stars or even stars we don't need?
First of all thanks for mocking my "With all due respect" statement.

The best year to rebuild and start over is the year your team doesn't make the playoffs or has no chance whatsoever. If you're Montreal then you keep your stars and add to them. Unfortunately, Samsonov never turned out the way everyone thought as Gainey believed he added to the team's offense in the offseason. Another point about rebuliding. Haven't the Habs been doing that for the last 5 years ? We're just starting to see some stars come up from Hamilton and they need some time.

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:10 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
With all due respect, with so many buyers, wouldn't it be the best year to rebuild by trading our UFA stars or even stars we don't need?
I want us to be a semi-seller team...

We are in the playoffs so we can't be sellers
We might not make the playoffs so we might be byers

That being said, we should mix things up. If we know that Souray will leave after this season, we should trade him and try to build arounf the player we will get for him.

We could also trade a player like Bonk or Johnson...our young players can do the job so it wouldn't hurt all that much.

Rivet could also leave if they don't want to re-sign him...

After that, we could trade for a third line player to fill a hole if needed. Same thing on the blueline. We would receive more than we would give, and we would be better for next year.

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:12 PM
  #12
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I dunno about you guys but I would be very disapointed if Rivet doesn't bring back a 1st ...look at what Witt brought back last deadline. Rivet has very good reputation around the league as well I think.

We also have Johnson,Bonk who could get 3rd round picks in return for a team looking for depth in the bottom 2 lines.

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:14 PM
  #13
LesHabsRock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychonaut View Post
Edmonton out of the playoffs=Buyer
Montreal in the playoffs race=Sellers
What is hard to understand?
So, the way your theory works, New Jersey should trade Brodeur, Pittsburgh should trade Crosby, and San Jose should trade Thronton. And all those players should go to the teams who won't make the playoffs?

Got it.

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:18 PM
  #14
Traitor8
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based on rumors:

To Montreal:
Carle
Pavlesic

To San Jose:
Souray

To Pittsburgh:
Rivet

To Montreal:
1st round pick (hey...apparently the market is very high right now)

Johnson + Bonk to whoever for 2 3rd round picks combined.

Try to work a deal to get Nathan Horton to Mtl ..based around Ryder ?

Lines to finish season (we can still make playoffs):

Higgins-Koivu-Ryder
Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Samsonov
Perezhogin-Grabovsky-Kovalev
Latendresse-Begin-Milroy/Lapierre

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:19 PM
  #15
Miller Time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
With all due respect, I still don't understand why you believe Montreal should be sellers unless you don't want them to be in the playoffs. I understand you created this thread for those who buy into your theory, but you can't expect a thread like this to stick without some sort of debate. That's the point of forums is to discuss or debate hockey issues.

Montreal is in 8th spot after the Isles game. They're only a few points out of 5th. Montreal is in the playoffs and, therefore, should be buying a player to move higher in the standings with 18 games remaining. If they trade Souray that means they've given up on the season. Unless you're Washington or Philly in the East you're a buyer.

The Calgary Flames are 8th place in the West. Should they also be sellers?

Hmmm... didn't really want to get into the Sell/not sell debate again, just wanted to see what people who want to sell are looking for return-wise... I like debating the topic, but there are numerous other threads where it is already taking place.

there are a lot of reasons that I think we should sell, but basically it has to do mainly with my feeling that this current group is not poised for a cup run. Although I do firmly believe that anything can happen once the playoffs begin, and that magical runs by longshots do happen, I guess I just don't believe this group has that in them... Starting goalie out, terrible 5 on 5 play, completely dependent on special teams play, almost no experienced grit in the forward group, lack of a true gamebreaker up front... all these things make us two vulnerable to make a real run.
Combine that with the fact that our two best d-men (and arguably the two most valuable players on our team this year) are UFA's, and that Defense is the weakness of our organizational depth, and I think that we are not in the same position as, to use your example, Calgary.
They are 8th, yes, but they have multiple stars/gamebreakers up front (Iggy, Tanguay), a ton of gritty playoff style players throughout the lineup (Yelle, Nilson, Langkow, Conroy, Warrener, Regher), a star goalie (kipper), a stud d-man, and the organizational motivation to be "buyers" (Iggy,Kipper,Regher are all UFA's after next year, phaneuf will be up for new contract as well).
Their team is built to win now... ours isnt... regardless of where we are in the standing.

Aren't you tired of icing a 7-8-9 caliber team almost every year? To break the cycle we will need to make some adjustments at some point... signing Samsonov's in the offseason sure won't do it!

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:20 PM
  #16
LesHabsRock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
I want us to be a semi-seller team...

We are in the playoffs so we can't be sellers
We might not make the playoffs so we might be byers

That being said, we should mix things up. If we know that Souray will leave after this season, we should trade him and try to build arounf the player we will get for him.

We could also trade a player like Bonk or Johnson...our young players can do the job so it wouldn't hurt all that much.

Rivet could also leave if they don't want to re-sign him...

After that, we could trade for a third line player to fill a hole if needed. Same thing on the blueline. We would receive more than we would give, and we would be better for next year.
Your post makes the most sense. I believe, if you're in a playoff spot that you keep your core together and the main stars who got you there. You don't trade Souray who is a big part of that. No one knows if he'll re-sign or not, although it seems more that he'll stay based on his recent comments. There are a bunch of players Montreal has that can get good return without affecting the core.

The fact is Souray won't fetch equal or greater value.

Another thing about the salary cap world that people don't seem to understand is you'll see a lot of teams let UFA's walk. It clears cap space and the money can be used to either re-seign that same player or another player. If a team has a UFA that is helping them in a playoff spot they'll take their chance with them to make a playoff run and then try to re-sign in the offseason.


Last edited by LesHabsRock: 02-24-2007 at 06:30 PM.
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Old
02-24-2007, 06:21 PM
  #17
AlexeiKovalev27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8 View Post
based on rumors:

To Montreal:
Carle
Pavlesic

To San Jose:
Souray

To Pittsburgh:
Rivet

To Montreal:
1st round pick (hey...apparently the market is very high right now)

Johnson + Bonk to whoever for 2 3rd round picks combined.

Try to work a deal to get Nathan Horton to Mtl ..based around Ryder ?

Lines to finish season (we can still make playoffs):

Higgins-Koivu-Ryder
Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Samsonov
Perezhogin-Grabovsky-Kovalev
Latendresse-Begin-Milroy/Lapierre
Oh so I see you want to put away one of our best pk killer and johnson to leave a place for grabby to create that 3rds line? I would say yes yes yes to that line if only we could have 5 lines and 25 players on the team, but it's not the case and I consider we need bonk.

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:29 PM
  #18
LesHabsRock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Hmmm... didn't really want to get into the Sell/not sell debate again, just wanted to see what people who want to sell are looking for return-wise... I like debating the topic, but there are numerous other threads where it is already taking place.

there are a lot of reasons that I think we should sell, but basically it has to do mainly with my feeling that this current group is not poised for a cup run. Although I do firmly believe that anything can happen once the playoffs begin, and that magical runs by longshots do happen, I guess I just don't believe this group has that in them... Starting goalie out, terrible 5 on 5 play, completely dependent on special teams play, almost no experienced grit in the forward group, lack of a true gamebreaker up front... all these things make us two vulnerable to make a real run.
Combine that with the fact that our two best d-men (and arguably the two most valuable players on our team this year) are UFA's, and that Defense is the weakness of our organizational depth, and I think that we are not in the same position as, to use your example, Calgary.
They are 8th, yes, but they have multiple stars/gamebreakers up front (Iggy, Tanguay), a ton of gritty playoff style players throughout the lineup (Yelle, Nilson, Langkow, Conroy, Warrener, Regher), a star goalie (kipper), a stud d-man, and the organizational motivation to be "buyers" (Iggy,Kipper,Regher are all UFA's after next year, phaneuf will be up for new contract as well).
Their team is built to win now... ours isnt... regardless of where we are in the standing.

Aren't you tired of icing a 7-8-9 caliber team almost every year? To break the cycle we will need to make some adjustments at some point... signing Samsonov's in the offseason sure won't do it!
Yo're right, inthat, anything can happen come playoff time. Montreal had been the victim of unfortunate circumstances is recent years. Last year, don't you think they had a shot at beating Carolina in the first round until the loss of Koivu? I really think the Habs can and will turn it up in the playoffs.

Your opinion on the Flames/Habs comparison is bias. Of course, you can say that about mine, but the fact is the Flames roster isn't that much better than the Habs and they're 8th.

Like another poster said, the Habs can be semi-sellers, meaning upgrading on guys like Bonk, Niinnima, Aebischer, etc without affecting the core of the team. Trading a guy like Souray will not improve the Habs.

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:31 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
I want us to be a semi-seller team...

We are in the playoffs so we can't be sellers
We might not make the playoffs so we might be byers

That being said, we should mix things up. If we know that Souray will leave after this season, we should trade him and try to build arounf the player we will get for him.

We could also trade a player like Bonk or Johnson...our young players can do the job so it wouldn't hurt all that much.

Rivet could also leave if they don't want to re-sign him...

After that, we could trade for a third line player to fill a hole if needed. Same thing on the blueline. We would receive more than we would give, and we would be better for next year.

Bingo...+1

well said, i don't like our chances this season. We just don't have it. We have huge holes that we can't fight through. what's the sense of always fighting for the last playoff position and never truly rebuilding or even making the kind of trades that set you up for a big season the following year. In the cap world this is how it is done. Sell your UFA's and unwanted talent and reap the benifits. Picks top prospects and younger players with more upside for the future.

All of us are nervous cause we know something must happen. We just can't figure out what the hell Gainey will do...expect the unexpected. for me this is do nothing. The unexpected is to stand pat and go into the offseason with what we have and without what we lose to UFA.

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Old
02-24-2007, 06:56 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychonaut View Post
Edmonton out of the playoffs=Buyer
Montreal in the playoffs race=Sellers
What is hard to understand?


i think that you completly missed the point , because it's the opposite .

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Old
02-24-2007, 07:01 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
Yo're right, inthat, anything can happen come playoff time. Montreal had been the victim of unfortunate circumstances is recent years. Last year, don't you think they had a shot at beating Carolina in the first round until the loss of Koivu? I really think the Habs can and will turn it up in the playoffs.

Your opinion on the Flames/Habs comparison is bias. Of course, you can say that about mine, but the fact is the Flames roster isn't that much better than the Habs and they're 8th.

Like another poster said, the Habs can be semi-sellers, meaning upgrading on guys like Bonk, Niinnima, Aebischer, etc without affecting the core of the team. Trading a guy like Souray will not improve the Habs.
Man you make a lot of assumptions. What makes you think they can "turn it up"?

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Old
02-24-2007, 07:06 PM
  #22
Watsatheo
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
So, the way your theory works, New Jersey should trade Brodeur, Pittsburgh should trade Crosby, and San Jose should trade Thronton. And all those players should go to the teams who won't make the playoffs?

Got it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by milou View Post


i think that you completly missed the point , because it's the opposite .
Someone needs a sarcasmO-meter.

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Old
02-24-2007, 07:32 PM
  #23
LesHabsRock
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Man you make a lot of assumptions. What makes you think they can "turn it up"?
A lot of assumptions? That's a sad-sack comment if I ever heard one. Why I believe (not assume) they can turn it up is based on years past, inthat, they have turned it up with much less talent. I must have missed your insightful comments in this thread.

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Old
02-24-2007, 08:00 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
A lot of assumptions? That's a sad-sack comment if I ever heard one. Why I believe (not assume) they can turn it up is based on years past, inthat, they have turned it up with much less talent. I must have missed your insightful comments in this thread.
From the king of sad sack comments, that's a compliment. Like the "instead of trying to trade assets that will not come back here next year" to let's upgrade Ninimaa (some miraculous way) is a great comment.

This "semi-seller" attitude has put us in this same position the last ten years. Maybe make the playoffs but accomplish little.

When have they "turned it up"? Enlighten me.

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02-24-2007, 09:16 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
With all due respect, I still don't understand why you believe Montreal should be sellers unless you don't want them to be in the playoffs. I understand you created this thread for those who buy into your theory, but you can't expect a thread like this to stick without some sort of debate. That's the point of forums is to discuss or debate hockey issues.

Montreal is in 8th spot after the Isles game. They're only a few points out of 5th. Montreal is in the playoffs and, therefore, should be buying a player to move higher in the standings with 18 games remaining. If they trade Souray that means they've given up on the season. Unless you're Washington or Philly in the East you're a buyer.

The Calgary Flames are 8th place in the West. Should they also be sellers?
Hear, hear. I ascribe it to many Habs fans - and especially those who post on these boards - living in the "video game generation". Fortunately, however, I have complete confidence that our management doesn't play video games with the team. The NHL is a multi-billion dollar industry, and the Canadiens would look like morons if they started running their team like it was a keeper FHL for kicks only.

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