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Thomas Vanek isn't the dominant force we expected him to be. (Update: sick/hurt?)

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Old
03-28-2014, 03:46 PM
  #226
SouthernHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
Can someone gif that please? The whole sequence from the hit to the goal.
No gif but here is the video replay

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...2,1095&lang=en

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Old
03-28-2014, 03:48 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Your point being? Yeah he played for the Islanders. On a line two other PPG players in Tavares and Okposo.

Cool story bro.
My point is that Vanek will have a bigger positive impact on winning games than PK Subban will.

The Canadiens have not been missing PK Subban from the lineup because he has been in the lineup.

The Canadiens have been missing a big, elite winger who is a goal scorer.

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03-28-2014, 03:50 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
My point is that Vanek will have a bigger positive impact on winning games than PK Subban will.

The Canadiens have not been missing PK Subban from the lineup because he has been in the lineup.

The Canadiens have been missing a big, elite winger who is a goal scorer.
Subban > vanek ainec.

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Old
03-28-2014, 03:53 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
My point is that Vanek will have a bigger positive impact on winning games than PK Subban will.

The Canadiens have not been missing PK Subban from the lineup because he has been in the lineup.

The Canadiens have been missing a big, elite winger who is a goal scorer.
I completely agree about needing Vanek, but I don't share your opinion in regards to Subban.

We haven't had to see what this team would look like without Subban, but I imagine it looking an awful lot like how looked in previous years without Markov in the line up. Our defense corps after those two, IMO, is abysmal.

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03-28-2014, 04:02 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
I completely agree about needing Vanek, but I don't share your opinion in regards to Subban.

We haven't had to see what this team would look like without Subban, but I imagine it looking an awful lot like how looked in previous years without Markov in the line up. Our defense corps after those two, IMO, is abysmal.
You are looking at it the wrong way.

It is not nor should it be an either or Vanek or Subban. It should be a concerted effort to sign both.

The Habs with Subban and minus Vanek has been an average team incapable of winning a Cup.

The Habs with Subban and Vanek take a huge step forward in winning a Cup. And if it takes giving Vanek more than Subban per year, then so be it. Vanek is a very high impact player......more so than Subban because of the generation of additional offense....one of our biggest struggles earlier in the season.

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Old
03-28-2014, 04:03 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Subban > vanek ainec.
Defense? yes

Offense? no

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03-28-2014, 04:08 PM
  #232
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Btw, those whining that if we had locked Subban long-term, we could afford Vanek.

You do realize that if Subban was signed for 6M$, we couldn't have had the cap space to acquire Vanek in the first place?

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03-28-2014, 04:57 PM
  #233
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Vanek is exactly the player we have been looking for in a long long time. He's a sniper like Kovalev was but they play a totally different style. I sure hope Vanek will have a good playoff run and him and his wife will want to stay here in Montreal. Vanek fills so many needs... Scoring, Size and a Right handed shot on the PP. His presence in front of the net causes chaos to opposing defenders!

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03-28-2014, 05:09 PM
  #234
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Vanek is playing well, just because we got him don't expect 8pts a night, give the guy a break. He will do alright.

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03-28-2014, 05:12 PM
  #235
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Why not give him slightly retarded money for a year or two and see if he'll at least delay the move to Minny plans? I think that has a better chance of keeping him here past this year than any dreams of him accepting something pretty extreme in a 7 or 8 year contract. Assuming keeping him is high on the list, of course.

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03-28-2014, 05:23 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Gionta is not coming back. $5.75 million is too much for Markov.

Vanek should be paid more than Subban. He has 62 points and played for the Islanders. Subban has 52 points.

Vanek is a bigger impact player for the Habs than Subban. And its not even close. Bergevin needs to throw everything he has at Vanek to keep him here.
Man, I hope you are kidding here.

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03-28-2014, 05:34 PM
  #237
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I don't think that money is the biggest factor here. Vanek could have stayed in New York.
I think Vanek wants to go back to Minnesota. He could change his mind if the Habs give him a reason to. A deep playoff run, healthy relationship to team mates and coaching staff etc.

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03-28-2014, 05:35 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Man, I hope you are kidding here.
No. I am not.

Before we do the exercise, remember that this is not either Vanek or Subban. This is having both.

Also remember that Subban has been on the Habs roster full time since 2010-11 and we have not made it to the Stanley Cup playoffs.

I know the love for Subban here. This team cannot win it all without an impact player on offense who will score more points than Subban. And that is Vanek. Thus we need a forward with more impact than Subban.

Dont get bent out of shape in thinking that I am dismissing Subban. He is not enough.

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03-28-2014, 05:38 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
No. I am not.

Before we do the exercise, remember that this is not either Vanek or Subban. This is having both.

Also remember that Subban has been on the Habs roster full time since 2010-11 and we have not made it to the Stanley Cup playoffs.

I know the love for Subban here. This team cannot win it all without an impact player on offense who will score more points than Subban. And that is Vanek.
You said Vanek should be paid more than Subban. And that he's a bigger impact player.

Are you out of your mind?

Take Subban out of our lineup and this team is toast. Even Carey Price couldn't save it.

I'm sure this debate will go on for pages on end here (with somebody else) but dude... seriously, what is up with you these days?

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03-28-2014, 05:43 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You said Vanek should be paid more than Subban. And that he's a bigger impact player.

Are you out of your mind?

Take Subban out of our lineup and this team is toast. Even Carey Price couldn't save it.

I'm sure this debate will go on for pages on end here (with somebody else) but dude... seriously, what is up with you these days?
Read the post before this one.

I asked you to understand that this is not either or between Vanek and Subban and you jumped right on in anyway.

Until then..............

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Old
03-28-2014, 05:45 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Gionta is not coming back. $5.75 million is too much for Markov.

Vanek should be paid more than Subban. He has 62 points and played for the Islanders. Subban has 52 points.

Vanek is a bigger impact player for the Habs than Subban. And its not even close. Bergevin needs to throw everything he has at Vanek to keep him here.
Lol wat? Not only is Subban a defencemen but Vanek played with Okposo and Tavares, sorry but that is a brutal arguement.

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Old
03-28-2014, 05:46 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Read the post before this one.

I asked you to understand that this is not either or between Vanek and Subban and you jumped right on in anyway.


Until then..............
You made the previous comparison and you're being challenged on it.

Yes we should have both. Who wouldn't want both? But that's not what you were challenged on. You were challenged on your earlier statements which to put it mildly are - way out there man.

Don't come here and say Vanek is more important to us and should be paid more and then turn around and say we need both... and pretend like you didn't say what you said.

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Old
03-28-2014, 05:52 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You made the previous comparison and you're being challenged on them.

Yes we should have both. Who wouldn't want both? But that's not what you were challenged on. You were challenged on your earlier statements which to put it mildly are - way out there man.

Don't come here and say Vanek is more important to us and should be paid more and then turn around and say we need both... and pretend like you didn't say what you said.

You want me to be brutally honest with you?

This team has been riding on the back of PK Subban and how many times have we made it to the Stanley Cup Finals?

If you say zero, you are at least being honest with yourself.

Subban, while one of the better DMen in the League does not provide enough IMPACT to carry a team to win a Cup.

The Canadiens need an elite offensive player to do that.

Let me throw a scenario at you.......

We give Subban $9 million per year and let Vanek walk and we get a couple of $3 million dollar forwards to fill in the gaps.

Or, we give Subban $7 million and Vanek $8 million and we get the elite forward this team has so desperately needed to become a contender.

Will we win a Cup with Subban raking in $9 million with a couple of decent wingers?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

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03-28-2014, 06:09 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Defense? yes

Offense? no
Subban is on his way to about 60 points this year. Think about that, a defenseman on the low scoring Canadiens is on his way to 60 points this year.

And that's now counting how many "third" assists he has on so many goals this year; he is the guy who after bringing the puck from his own end to the opposing end sets up the second assist-man in a good position to set up the first assist-man, who then sets up the goal scorer.

Vanek is great, but Subban's offensive skills and stats are more impressive considering the fact that he is a defensemen. Anytime a defensemen puts up a a point per game as he did last year, wise people should cease saying what you are saying.

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03-28-2014, 06:17 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
Subban is on his way to about 60 points this year. Think about that, a defenseman on the low scoring Canadiens is on his way to 60 points this year.

And that's now counting how many "third" assists he has on so many goals this year; he is the guy who after bringing the puck from his own end to the opposing end sets up the second assist-man in a good position to set up the first assist-man, who then sets up the goal scorer.

Vanek is great, but Subban's offensive skills and stats are more impressive considering the fact that he is a defensemen. Anytime a defensemen puts up a a point per game as he did last year, wise people should cease saying what you are saying.
Again, read what I said and then I will ask you a question.

This is not Vanek or Subban.

Now for the question.

Did Subban lead this team to a Cup Finals series (much less a Cup)?


The "impact" of Subban is not enough for the Habs to win it all. All I am saying...............

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03-28-2014, 06:19 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You want me to be brutally honest with you?

This team has been riding on the back of PK Subban and how many times have we made it to the Stanley Cup Finals?

If you say zero, you are at least being honest with yourself.

Subban, while one of the better DMen in the League does not provide enough IMPACT to carry a team to win a Cup.

The Canadiens need an elite offensive player to do that.

Let me throw a scenario at you.......

We give Subban $9 million per year and let Vanek walk and we get a couple of $3 million dollar forwards to fill in the gaps.

Or, we give Subban $7 million and Vanek $8 million and we get the elite forward this team has so desperately needed to become a contender.

Will we win a Cup with Subban raking in $9 million with a couple of decent wingers?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
No, the definition of insanity is your lack of logic in this post.

Name one elite skater in the NHL who won a Stanley Cup while being the only elite skater on his team.

You won't find a single one. Crosby had Malkin. Teows had Kane, Keith, and Hossa.

For goodness sake, Subban cannot win a stanley cup on his own. Especially when he's only been elite for just two years!

Subban can't win a cup on his own, neither can Price, and neither can Vanek. They will all need each other's brilliance if they are to win the cup.

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03-28-2014, 06:21 PM
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Man, I hope you are kidding here.
I saw him suggest Murray is as good as Subban defensively so highly doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think it's important we have an absolute elite winger to play with Gal. If not Vanek, then someone else. But we need someone. I absolutely do not want to see another center wasted away by giving him average/top6 wingers at best.
This is one of the reasons I wanted Jagr, future hall of famer who comes with a ton of praise from young studs like Benn and Giroux. This is ignoring the obvious Plekanec connection.

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Old
03-28-2014, 06:22 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Again, read what I said and then I will ask you a question.

This is not Vanek or Subban.

Now for the question.

Did Subban lead this team to a Cup Finals series (much less a Cup)?


The "impact" of Subban is not enough for the Habs to win it all. All I am saying...............
Well..uhh...I did, and..I'm an idiot.

I am sorry. I completely misunderstood you. I was surprised that you would be saying what I thought you were saying, I should have spent more time thinking than writing.

Still, I think you are dead wrong on your belief that Vanek is more imortant than Subban.

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Old
03-28-2014, 06:30 PM
  #249
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id say priority #1 is resign Subban just get it done

priority #2 is get Vanek at all costs

#3 bring back Markov

#4 bring back Gionta at reduced rate he will really be missed if out of the lineup

#5 Eller?

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Old
03-28-2014, 06:32 PM
  #250
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To win a cup you need at least one each of

A dominant D man
A dominant Goalie
A dominant FWD line

We have 2 D capable of being dominant
PRICE
Until Vanek we did not have a line capable of being dominant.

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