HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

David Desharnais Discussions - Part III - Montreal's Masterton nominee

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-29-2014, 01:13 PM
  #1
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,123
vCash: 500
David Desharnais Discussions - Part III - Montreal's Masterton nominee

Sicne the last thread reached 1000 posts, and it was starting to veer on the topics of politics...

NEW THREAD!!!

So.. nobody is buying into my DD/Dupuis comparison?

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 01:13 PM
  #2
Jrham15
Registered User
 
Jrham15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: windsor
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,548
vCash: 500
Isn't this like part 10?

Jrham15 is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 01:14 PM
  #3
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,123
vCash: 500
Last thread was Part deux... soo.. ?

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 01:15 PM
  #4
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,506
vCash: 483
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
Instead of complaining about the topic having politics in it (you do realize this franchise is heavily influenced by it), how about closing and locking any thread of similarity for a change.

compile is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 01:16 PM
  #5
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by compile View Post
Instead of complaining about the topic having politics in it (you do realize this franchise is heavily influenced by it), how about closing and locking any thread of similarity for a change.
Not sure what you mean

Last thread was reaching 1000 posts anyway

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 02:10 PM
  #6
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Reminder that complaining about a thread's existence will be met with a threadban. If you don't like a thread, don't post in it.


Last edited by overlords: 03-29-2014 at 08:07 PM.
overlords is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 02:13 PM
  #7
Beige Van
Registered User
 
Beige Van's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 548
vCash: 1000
His playoff performance is going to dictate the tone of this thread for the next 100 pages

Beige Van is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 02:22 PM
  #8
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse
It's less about DD not being able to win, and more about asking if you think that the heavy investment of top PP time, the best wingers the team has, and the majority of favorable matchups / offensive zone starts is worth a return of 53 projected points, and the opportunity cost inherent in other lines having less offensive capital to work with and increased defensive liabilities to cover.
Quoted for reference. I think this summarizes the concerns of many here on the DD question. Clearly there are issues with having a 5'6" guy with a very limited skills set as a #1C. No other NHL team is doing anything like this.

As I wrote in the last thread I hope I'm wrong. I hope the Habs win the Cup and I'll cheer the loudest when DD hoists it.

Go Habs Go !!!

JLP is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 02:23 PM
  #9
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
RIP
 
DekeLikeYouMeanIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,586
vCash: 500
He's awesome. Apart from the 2 times per game where he's just outright outmuscled and gives the puck away for an odd man rush. Otherwise, awesome.

DekeLikeYouMeanIt is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 02:23 PM
  #10
FazChenyuk
Registered User
 
FazChenyuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,371
vCash: 500
Despite his shortcomings, has produced at every level

FazChenyuk is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 02:42 PM
  #11
Des Louise
Formerly E=CH2
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 17,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Clearly there are issues with having a 5'6" guy with a very limited skills set as a #1C. No other NHL team is doing anything like this.
Show me another team that has a similar makeup in terms of its centers and wingers and who is doing things completely differently.

Besides, people need to stop thinking that everything has to fit in a box, and everything has to be the same as everything else. MT does what he feels he needs to do to win games. It doesn't have to be the same as what other teams do. And gotta admit that the habs have looked real good and won a lot since the lines are like that. So what's the problem ?

EDIT: 28 goals in the last 8 games... Can't exactly complain that the offense isn't clicking. And not just the DD line.

Des Louise is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 02:43 PM
  #12
Stjonnypopo
Rgesitreed Uesr
 
Stjonnypopo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mount Doom
Posts: 10,782
vCash: 500
It's crazy how he had one point in his first 19 games, and then he's been 0.87 PPG since then. What an unbeliavable turnaround.

I hope that that's the only slump he has during his contract. If he plays between 0.6 and 0.8 PPG for the rest of the contract we'll all be happy.

Stjonnypopo is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 04:36 PM
  #13
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,722
vCash: 500
Some interesting PP stats.

The Canadiens currently rank 13th in PP% in the league with a 18.5% conversion rate according to data from nhl.com

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...ewName=summary


The following stats are from behind the net.com and are 9 games in arrears.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...8+19+20#snip=f

DD is ranked 22nd among all centers in pts/60 min. 5 vs.4 (minimum 50 GP). 5 of the 22 players above him (Prust and Bournvial were listed among the 5) have 3 or less PP points, so their PP time is insignificant. So, DD effectively rates 17th among all centers in point generation on the PP. It's possible that this ranking improves if the last 9 games were included in the btn data.

DD is 14th in primary assists using the same criterion.

DD is second among Habs forwards at 5.36 points per 60 at 5vs.4. Pacioretty is first at 5.90. Note: Vanek's numbers aren't broken down between his multiple teams and he's only been in Montreal for 11 games or so.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...+7+17+18+19+20

I was a bit surprised to find DD ranked as highly as he is in PP production. His overall ranking seems to indicate that he is a net positive to the Canadiens PP given the Habs rank among the teams (13th) and the possible alternatives that management has.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 03-29-2014 at 04:44 PM.
Cyclones Rock is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 04:57 PM
  #14
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Show me another team that has a similar makeup in terms of its centers and wingers and who is doing things completely differently.
No other team has built their roster like the Habs have. No team drafted DD and according to LeBrun no other team wanted him last summer or fall. So there is no comparison in the NHL. We're on our own.

Quote:
Besides, people need to stop thinking that everything has to fit in a box, and everything has to be the same as everything else. MT does what he feels he needs to do to win games. It doesn't have to be the same as what other teams do. And gotta admit that the habs have looked real good and won a lot since the lines are like that. So what's the problem ?
I don't think we looked real good against Boston but we won. Of course there will always be games like that. Again I agree that Habs mgm't is not thinking like the other 29 NHL teams. As noted we have four or five players 5'9" or shorter, more than the entire Western Conference. Adding Briere seems to confirm the Habs are thinking way outside the box on size. And Weaver at 5'9" 180lbs was the second-smallest player to move at the deadline.

Quote:
EDIT: 28 goals in the last 8 games... Can't exactly complain that the offense isn't clicking. And not just the DD line.
The last 8 games is a small sample though, on the season the Habs are 29th in even-strength scoring. In the playoffs even-strength scoring is more important as you know there are fewer man advantages and no four-on-four OT or shootouts.

A strong playoff run by the smallest NHL team in decades, led by the league's tiniest #1C, that would be a huge blow to conventional hockey wisdom. But yeah here we go Red, I sincerely hope it happens!

Go Habs Go !!!

JLP is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 04:58 PM
  #15
Winter Eclipse
Registered User
 
Winter Eclipse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
EDIT: 28 goals in the last 8 games... Can't exactly complain that the offense isn't clicking. And not just the DD line.
"The last 8 games"

Yeah, too bad these adjustments came after the team had already played 67 friggin games!!!!.

That's one of the key criticisms MT gets for his obsession with ensuring that our 1st line has the best of every single offensive asset / opportunity this team has, that he didn't do anything at all resembling that for ANY of our other assets!!

How long were people asking for Galchenyuk to be given some semblance of an offensive role, instead of the grinder/2-way nonsense he was forced into? Couldn't do that though, cause the sheltered role had to go to DD in order to get those projected 53 points, so learn 2 grind on da wing Galchenyuk!!

How often did people argue that using Plekanec in a purely shutdown role was a waste of his offensive talents, and that maybe giving him some talent on the wings (instead of Gionta) and some offensive minutes might reap some benefits? Oops, can't do that either, cause with the zero defensive responsibility given to the DD line, we needed Plekanec to shoulder almost the entirety of the defensive aspects of the game.

How many times did people express bewilderment at how we signed a FA center for 4 million dollars, only to see him placed on the 4th line wing, and that maybe he'd be better playing at his natural position in a sheltered offensive role? Again, not possible, since all the sheltered minutes go to DD, and the 4th line doesn't generally have many offensive talents assigned to it.

But Vanek effectively increased the offensive stock of the Habs, and MT basically had no choice but to let some of it trickle down to the other lines, and lo and behold, our ES scoring has improved!! Imagine how effective this team could be if we actually had a coach who invested his offensive capital properly, instead of just loading up one asset and treating the improved performances of Plekanec, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, and Briere as peripheral fringe benefits...

Winter Eclipse is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 04:58 PM
  #16
Habs
Registered User
 
Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,463
vCash: 500
He's an asset the team should trade, no matter what his 'little' stats keep doing in Montreal.

Habs is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 05:05 PM
  #17
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,068
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Sicne the last thread reached 1000 posts, and it was starting to veer on the topics of politics...

NEW THREAD!!!

So.. nobody is buying into my DD/Dupuis comparison?
I prefer your DD/Staal comparison, think you should elavorate

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 05:07 PM
  #18
Winter Eclipse
Registered User
 
Winter Eclipse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I prefer your DD/Staal comparison, think you should elavorate
Hmm, I actually enjoyed SouthernHabs' DD/Plekanec comparison myself

Winter Eclipse is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 05:08 PM
  #19
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I prefer your DD/Staal comparison, think you should elavorate
Well.. It kind of plays into it.

you cannot just stack the most elite of the NHL on the same line. Sometimes, a lesser player is going to get the most out of elite talent.

DD may not be elite talent, but he sure seems to have a knack of getting the best out of his wingers. Cole, Patch, Vanek, Gallagher..

I mean, come on. Cole had a career season playing with the guy. Patch has never produced consistently with another center, and Vanek is clearly clicking with the guy.

There's a reason Dupuis is playing with Crosby; and it's not because he has 1337 hockey talent.

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 05:24 PM
  #20
Winter Eclipse
Registered User
 
Winter Eclipse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Well.. It kind of plays into it.

you cannot just stack the most elite of the NHL on the same line. Sometimes, a lesser player is going to get the most out of elite talent.

DD may not be elite talent, but he sure seems to have a knack of getting the best out of his wingers. Cole, Patch, Vanek, Gallagher..

I mean, come on. Cole had a career season playing with the guy. Patch has never produced consistently with another center, and Vanek is clearly clicking with the guy.

There's a reason Dupuis is playing with Crosby; and it's not because he has 1337 hockey talent.
Are you saying Dupuis gets the best out of Crosby?

Winter Eclipse is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 05:25 PM
  #21
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,068
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Well.. It kind of plays into it.

you cannot just stack the most elite of the NHL on the same line. Sometimes, a lesser player is going to get the most out of elite talent.

DD may not be elite talent, but he sure seems to have a knack of getting the best out of his wingers. Cole, Patch, Vanek, Gallagher..

I mean, come on. Cole had a career season playing with the guy. Patch has never produced consistently with another center, and Vanek is clearly clicking with the guy.

There's a reason Dupuis is playing with Crosby; and it's not because he has 1337 hockey talent.
outside his rookie year, Patches didnt play many games without DD, so yeah of course he'll be better with him it's the oly C he had time to develop chemistry with... Vanek ? he isnt producing at a higher pace than with the Isles or prior Sabres teams... as for Gallagher, same thing, he's not producing at a much higher pace than last season with EGG...


Hey! Vanek line looks nice, but let's not kid ourself here... TV is the only forward we'll have wth over 60 points, the other two on his line are on pace for +/- 50 pts... there's nothing extra-ordinary about that.

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 05:26 PM
  #22
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Well.. It kind of plays into it.

you cannot just stack the most elite of the NHL on the same line. Sometimes, a lesser player is going to get the most out of elite talent.

DD may not be elite talent, but he sure seems to have a knack of getting the best out of his wingers. Cole, Patch, Vanek, Gallagher..

I mean, come on. Cole had a career season playing with the guy. Patch has never produced consistently with another center, and Vanek is clearly clicking with the guy.

There's a reason Dupuis is playing with Crosby; and it's not because he has 1337 hockey talent.
Getting the most out of wingers who have scored throughout their careers without DD? C'mon.

I can understand people saying DD works well iwth Vanek and Max. But to say he gets the most out of them than anyone has is an outright lie. Vanek, Cole, Pacioretty, Gallagher have all produced without DD.

Dupuis is far better than DD. DD is more like a Kyle Wellwood. Nothing more, nothing less. Dupuis is a very good hockey player.

Is Max a product of DD? Is Vanek a product of DD? Is Cole a product of DD? Did you forget Cole being trash last year?

hockeyfan2k11 is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 05:39 PM
  #23
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
Are you saying Dupuis gets the best out of Crosby?
More than other wingers of superior skill, sure. Their styles just mesh well. Dupuis is a rush and crash kind of guy that can keep up with Crosby's speed. It's not necessarily about being one of the NHL's best overall winger, but being one that offers the right thing for your partner.

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 05:42 PM
  #24
Winter Eclipse
Registered User
 
Winter Eclipse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
More than other wingers of superior skill, sure. Their styles just mesh well. Dupuis is a rush and crash kind of guy that can keep up with Crosby's speed. It's not necessarily about being one of the NHL's best overall winger, but being one that offers the right thing for your partner.
So Dupuis benefits less from Crosby, than Crosby does from Dupuis?

Winter Eclipse is offline  
Old
03-29-2014, 05:46 PM
  #25
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
So Dupuis benefits less from Crosby, than Crosby does from Dupuis?
Dupuis benefits a lot from Crosby, let's not kid ourselves.

It's just that Crosby definetly seems to be more dominant when he plays with a winger that offers the same things as Dupuis. Basically, it allows the Pens to put a better winger on Malkin's line. It's just smart distribution of your offense; you find the matches that fit.

PricePkPatch is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.