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David Desharnais Discussions - Part III - Montreal's Masterton nominee

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Old
03-30-2014, 01:02 AM
  #76
JLP
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Pretty sure the only forward on the team with more straight away speed is eller. Think they've finished 1 and 2 more than once at the habs skill comp thingy.
What about Weise the Missile ?

DD fast? Hmmm really?

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03-30-2014, 01:12 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Patches wants to play with DD.
So what you're saying is that DD will ALWAYS play with our best wingers ahead of Galchenyuk. Plekanec, Eller for the next four years and you don't see a problem with that?

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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Vanek was given the choice: Plek or DD.

Vanek decided to play on the right with DD intead of playing with Plekanec.

Do you really think that Vanek was forced to play with DD?
He was with Plek at first.
So what you're saying is one of the leagues most prolific scorers chose to play on an offensive line instead of a defensive one. My mind is blown away! I guess he wanted a change from all those years of playing as a defensive specialist.

If Desharnais is such the demi-god who turns scrubs into 50-goal scorers why pray tell did it take twice as long playing with DD instead of Plekanec before Vanek scored his first goal? Could it prove that chemistry takes time to develop? Nah can't be that.

Don't look now but our no talent hack over-the-hill no offensive shutdown center has another 20 season under his belt. Give him 2 offensive wingers and our best D man and he scores 2 goals in one game... at even strength... an area we have been sorely lacking and DD sucks at! Who would have guessed? Pacioretty's first goal today was assisted by none other than Briere and Vanek.

I have no problem with the Pac-DD-Vanek Line, as a matter of fact I'm looking forward to seeing how well they fair in the playoffs but to keep praising him while we had one line and the team kept losing is full blown retard. And for the love of God can we stop pretending that DD is the best center on this team? Not only are the 2 power forwards on his sides some of the best scorers in the league but they have elite passing skills to boot! But hey at least he's good at shootouts and scoring in open nets!

And I want to hear from the DD-lovers, if DD has such legendary high hockey IQ and Eller has rocks for brains why did Eller have more assists than Desharnais last year? Why did our most physical center steadily improve every single year until this year? Good thing Therrien saw the writing on the wall and jumped ship cutting him at the knees before he could become a detriment to the team. Oh wait...

48 10 18 28 -2
46 8 22 30 8

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Old
03-30-2014, 01:25 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Actually on RDS thay said the choice to Vanek was: you play on the right with DD and Patches or you play on the left with Plekanec.
So you don't actually have a source? Pretty sure Vanek himself characterized Plekanec as a more defensive assignment:

The one area where this might be a difficult assignment for Vanek is where on the ice he starts his shifts. While with the Islanders, Vanek began 41.7 percent of his shifts in the offensive zone, compared with 23.6 percent in the defensive zone, according to Extraskater.com. Plekanec has started 24.5 percent of his shifts in the offensive zone and 36.1 percent in the defensive zone.

The bulk of the offensive-zone shifts on the Canadiens go to the line of Max Pacioretty, David Desharnais and Brendan Gallagher. Vanek said he sees his role as a challenge to convince Therrien that his line deserves to get some more of those faceoffs in the opposing end of the ice.
(http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=709026)

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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
As of this writing, Patches is one of the Top 5 goalscorers in the entire NHL. In the goal-scoring category, he's ahead of Sidney Crosby in spite of playing 7 fewer games than Crosby. Do you honestly think this isn't Patches' best? I mean, if not, just who do you think Patches is? Guy Lafleur? Rocket Richard?
Is this for friggin' real?? Yeah, Patches is 1 whole goal ahead of Sidney Crosby and 43 whole points behind him. What an absolutely ridiculous comparison

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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
Yes, DD is getting the best out of his wingers. He is absolutely earning his spot on the first line, and his ice-time. As long as the team keeps winning (which they obviously are right now), there's no good reason to break up a red-hot first line that's playing a huge role in our success.
Great! So you're definitively calling DD a legitimate #1C?

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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
And as you yourself pointed out, Therrien has found other line combinations that work pretty well for the second through fourth lines. Is he benefiting from Vanek's impact on the roster? Of course, and that's kind of the point of making an acquisition like that. As some of us said in the past, we were weak on the wings, and it made it harder to get good line combinations going. The addition of Vanek means that we have a great answer for finishing the top DD-Patches line, which in turn means we don't have to turn to Gallagher or Bourque for that.
Bourque's never been on the top line, so not even sure what you're talking about there. And I still have yet to hear any actual argument for why Gallagher couldn't play with Plekanec until Vanek showed up, nor why Briere had to be relegated to 4th line wing duties until Vanek showed up, nor how Gionta is a Top 6 player and Galchenyuk a bottom 6 player until Vanek arrives and then suddenly Gionta is a bottom 6 and Galchenyuk a top 6...

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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
DD and Briere are both best playing Center between two big wingers, with at least one having a scoring touch. At the same time, Gallagher sparks whatever line he's put on.
So why wasn't Briere put at Center earlier? And why was our team sparkplug reserved for DD despite the fact that our TEAM was at 29th in ES scoring? Why reserve the sparkplug for the one line that had, in your own words, near Sidney Crosby levels of goal production?

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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
So now Bourque (big winger, some offensive talent) can be given to Briere, and Gallagher can be given to Pleks.
Laughable. Bourque could've been given to Briere at any point in the season.

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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
So what is there to complain about? Eller? Eller's struggles are at least partly his own fault, frankly. He has a lot of good hockey skills and talents, but he really needs to relearn how to use his linemates better.
Oh for sure, he needs to earn getting sparkplug players, amirite? LMAO at how you can talk about maximizing all the players on the team, except Eller who needs to EARN getting any help!! I guess having the best FO% among our regular Centers, leading all forwards in hits, and being a key component of the 3rd ranked PK unit are all irrelevant junk stats.

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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
When you have a winger who's one of the Top 5 in goal-scoring in the entire NHL, you give him the linemates that he wants, and you do not **** with his chemistry.
And yet, this supposed elite pairing apparently also requires the team sparkplug to be their exclusive linemate, only relinquishing him when he can be replaced by a 4 goal talent

Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Our team isn't built around our centers, whether it's DD and/or Plekanec. It's built around Subban, Price, Vanek, Patch. They're the best players and the ones who should be carrying the team IMO.
Our team is partially built around a guy we've had for 12 games? Pretty prescient!! What about the "Top 5 scoring winger in the League"?

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Old
03-30-2014, 01:37 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
And for the love of God can we stop pretending that DD is the best center on this team? Not only are the 2 power forwards on his sides some of the best scorers in the league but they have elite passing skills to boot! But hey at least he's good at shootouts and scoring in open nets!
Apparently those skills are largely the product of playing with DD, and would disappear as soon as they were removed from his line...you can believe that too, because the people who argue it aren't really fans of DD anyways, they just want to defend him from the senseless hate he gets for being French

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03-30-2014, 01:41 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Pretty sure the only forward on the team with more straight away speed is eller. Think they've finished 1 and 2 more than once at the habs skill comp thingy.
I refuse to believe that he is faster than Plekanec.

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03-30-2014, 01:43 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
He's also a lot better defensively than he gets credit for.
Really? He is still not very good defensively, IMO.

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03-30-2014, 02:09 AM
  #82
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Good player.

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Old
03-30-2014, 02:40 AM
  #83
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He's got pretty good hockey sense and speed.
if he had that much, he'd be decent defensively at least, and he'd know when to shoot instead of passing all the time.

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03-30-2014, 02:42 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
What about Weise the Missile ?

DD fast? Hmmm really?
Bournival is pretty fast too.

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Old
03-30-2014, 02:59 AM
  #85
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DD's on ice vision is cristal clear. What is there to doubt? He is certainly a strong asset for this team. Even though we are probably witnessing the height of his career.

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03-30-2014, 03:55 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Bryson View Post

And I want to hear from the DD-lovers, if DD has such legendary high hockey IQ and Eller has rocks for brains why did Eller have more assists than Desharnais last year? Why did our most physical center steadily improve every single year until this year? Good thing Therrien saw the writing on the wall and jumped ship cutting him at the knees before he could become a detriment to the team. Oh wait...

48 10 18 28 -2
46 8 22 30 8
Eller had the 5th most secondary assists per 60 minutes in the league among all forwards in the truncated season. Good luck on repeating that stat.

For his career, Eller has 44g and 56a in 283 games. In his 46 game "season", Eller had 8 goals and 22 assists. That equates to a 2.75 assist to goal ratio. In his other 237 career games (that's 86% of his career), Eller has scored 36g and 34a, essentially a 1.0 assist to goal ratio.

In 74 games this season, Eller has 11g and 12a, once again tracking the 1.0 assists to goals ratio which has occurred in 86% of his career.

Desharnais play dropped off considerably after signing his big contract. It's not the first time a player has gotten complacent after getting security and wealth.

So, the combination of DD's underperformance and Eller's unprecedented assist to goal ratio which was fueled by secondary assists allowed for him to outproduce DD in the truncated season.

Basically, Eller got very lucky and Desharnais played under par.

I hope that explains things for you. Glad to help out.

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03-30-2014, 04:46 AM
  #87
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DD is now tied for 27th among centers in scoring with 49 points despite ranking 65th in TOI at 17:02 per game.

He is now tied for 68th in scoring among all NHLers.

His 48 points in his last 54 games (2/3rds of a season) pace out to 73 points in a full 82 game season.

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Old
03-30-2014, 07:09 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Glad to see him produce. But my opinion on him hasn't changed. Max and Vanek are two top shelf first liners, DD isn't. Put Galchenyuk, Eller or Plecs there and they'll produce as well.
On just what basis, statistical or otherwise, do you make this claim?

Eller's passing game and offensive vision is considerably less than DD's, so I seriously doubt that Patches and Vanek would produce as well alongside Eller as they do alongside DD.

Chucky has a lot of talent, of course, but he's proven little at the NHL level. Which is fine. The kid's only 20, for crying out loud.


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Originally Posted by Bryson View Post

If Desharnais is such the demi-god who turns scrubs into 50-goal scorers...
Horrible strawman argument.

Some of us are simply saying that he's earned his current role on the team given the excellent production of his linemates, and his own very consistent production since his slump ended months ago.


Quote:
Don't look now but our no talent hack over-the-hill no offensive shutdown center has another 20 season under his belt. Give him 2 offensive wingers and our best D man and he scores 2 goals in one game... at even strength... an area we have been sorely lacking and DD sucks at!
12 of DD's 15 goals this season are at even-strength. And 15 goals isn't that sucky for an almost pure playmaker of an offensive center. Most pure play-making offensive centers on a top line are 20-40-60 types, which is probably close to where DD will finish off the regular season.

For points of comparison, look at guys like Craig Conroy post-St. Louis, Andy McDonald, and Scott Gomez in his good years.


Quote:
I have no problem with the Pac-DD-Vanek Line, as a matter of fact I'm looking forward to seeing how well they fair in the playoffs but to keep praising him while we had one line and the team kept losing is full blown retard.
People are praising him because DD is ridiculously over-hated on this board, so some of us (including myself) feel compelled to challenge this silly HFBoards narrative that makes DD out to be some overprivileged guy that's actually hurting the team when it's quite the opposite.


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Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
Is this for friggin' real?? Yeah, Patches is 1 whole goal ahead of Sidney Crosby and 43 whole points behind him. What an absolutely ridiculous comparison
It's a perfectly legitimate comparison. Crosby is a generational talent, and if you're beating him in any of the three main offensive categories (goals, assists, and points) then that means you're producing exceptionally well in that category.


Quote:
Great! So you're definitively calling DD a legitimate #1C?
He's a complimentary player. So he's a legitimate #1C in the right circumstances. He's an almost pure playmaker, so he needs to have legit 1st line offensive wingers in order to be a legit 1st line center.


Quote:
Bourque's never been on the top line, so not even sure what you're talking about there.
Way back when DD was having his slump, there was a game where he played with Bourque, and that was the first game that he started to show signs of turning it around.


Quote:
And I still have yet to hear any actual argument for why Gallagher couldn't play with Plekanec until Vanek showed up, nor why Briere had to be relegated to 4th line wing duties until Vanek showed up, nor how Gionta is a Top 6 player and Galchenyuk a bottom 6 player until Vanek arrives and then suddenly Gionta is a bottom 6 and Galchenyuk a top 6...
Coaches are understandably hesitant to break up 1st lines that are producing well. Especially when they feel that they lack good alternate options. DD/Gionta on the same line isn't likely to work very well because of similar weaknesses and styles of play that don't naturally gel well together. After Patches, Gallagher, and Gionta, we were very weak on the wings prior to the Vanek trade (it didn't help that Bourque was struggling mightily). We didn't really have a good 1st line replacement for Gallagher if we took him off that line. Vanek obviously changed that, and that creates a ripple effect throughout the roster.

Another factor is that Bourque has been terrible much of the season. When Bourque plays umotivated hockey, he's useless. But when he plays with at least some motivation, he's a good fit for DD or Briere (at center).


Quote:
Oh for sure, he needs to earn getting sparkplug players, amirite?
A player as useful and productive as Gallagher shouldn't be playing on the third line. Gallagher is a sparkplug, but for whichever of the top two lines needs him the most. Eller hasn't earned a Top 6 forward position. DD and Pleks both have.


Quote:
I guess having the best FO% among our regular Centers, leading all forwards in hits, and being a key component of the 3rd ranked PK unit are all irrelevant junk stats.
No, they're relevant, but 3rd and 4th line defensive centers actually do tend to do well with these kinds of defensive stats. They're not enough in and of themselves to prove that a guy should have a Top 6 offensive role.


Last edited by Darth Joker: 03-30-2014 at 07:16 AM.
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Old
03-30-2014, 08:09 AM
  #89
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DD fan boys are funny. DD scores an emptu netter max and Vanek score on great passes by other players to take a 2-0 lead and all of a sudden you see posts about DD being the fastest on the team and good defensively. This is why the fan boys are hard to stomach. Briere even played a better game. But DD got his points so he is the best C on the team and if we look at the last 5 periods he's on pace to be the best Centerman in the history of the NHL!!!

Glad to see we are a one line team. Those teams always do well in the playoffs!

I don't care about points or what he's on pace for. If you're telling me that DD requires all of this coddling to be a 60 ish point player I see a lot of problems.


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03-30-2014, 08:21 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Eller had the 5th most secondary assists per 60 minutes in the league among all forwards in the truncated season. Good luck on repeating that stat.

For his career, Eller has 44g and 56a in 283 games. In his 46 game "season", Eller had 8 goals and 22 assists. That equates to a 2.75 assist to goal ratio. In his other 237 career games (that's 86% of his career), Eller has scored 36g and 34a, essentially a 1.0 assist to goal ratio.

In 74 games this season, Eller has 11g and 12a, once again tracking the 1.0 assists to goals ratio which has occurred in 86% of his career.

Desharnais play dropped off considerably after signing his big contract. It's not the first time a player has gotten complacent after getting security and wealth.

So, the combination of DD's underperformance and Eller's unprecedented assist to goal ratio which was fueled by secondary assists allowed for him to outproduce DD in the truncated season.

Basically, Eller got very lucky and Desharnais played under par.

I hope that explains things for you. Glad to help out.
Is this how I sound when I criticize DD? No wonder I'm met with such hostility. Lol

compare a guy who plays with 2 of the best wingers in the league and 2 of the best offensive pairing dmen in plans markov to a guy who plays with bourque bouillon gorges.. Sounds about right.

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03-30-2014, 08:29 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
DD is now tied for 27th among centers in scoring with 49 points despite ranking 65th in TOI at 17:02 per game.

He is now tied for 68th in scoring among all NHLers.

His 48 points in his last 54 games (2/3rds of a season) pace out to 73 points in a full 82 game season.
Last 54 games, he's been much better than Johansen. Yet, one gets all the hype, the other hate.

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03-30-2014, 08:32 AM
  #92
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I thought of something funny suddenly.. Somebody should make a vid or a pic of the Britney Spears guy on YT and replace Britney with DD


I can see it clearly "LEAVE DAVID DESHARNAIS ALONE!!! "



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03-30-2014, 08:32 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Is this how I sound when I criticize DD? No wonder I'm met with such hostility. Lol

compare a guy who plays with 2 of the best wingers in the league and 2 of the best offensive pairing dmen in plans markov to a guy who plays with bourque bouillon gorges.. Sounds about right.
Cyclones hates Eller.

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03-30-2014, 08:34 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
Apparently those skills are largely the product of playing with DD, and would disappear as soon as they were removed from his line...you can believe that too, because the people who argue it aren't really fans of DD anyways, they just want to defend him from the senseless hate he gets for being French
90% of the hate he gets here is because he is french. Non french players never receive such hate. Not a single one in 15 years of this board and he is like the 10th french wipping boy.

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03-30-2014, 08:36 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by HabsDood View Post
I thought of something funny suddenly.. Somebody should make a vid or a pic of the Britney Spears guy on YT and replace Britney with DD


I can see it clearly "LEAVE DAVID DESHARNAIS ALONE!!! "



btw, i'm a Desharnais fan

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03-30-2014, 08:37 AM
  #96
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90% of the hate he gets here is because he is french. Non french players never receive such hate. Not a single one in 15 years of this board and he is like the 10th french wipping boy.
DD haters are funny. They see their team riding a five game winning streak and one of the hottest lines in the NHL and they Still can't enjoy it because DD is a part of it.

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03-30-2014, 08:39 AM
  #97
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90% of the hate he gets here is because he is french.
False.

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Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
Non french players never receive such hate.
False.

Bourque (who is Metis), Gionta (American), Bouillon (American), all get significant hate. Back in the day, people really piled on Michael Ryder (Newfoundlander), A. Kostitsyn (Belarussian), S. Kostitsyn (Belarussian), Kovalev (Russian), etc.

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03-30-2014, 08:41 AM
  #98
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90% of the hate he gets here is because he is french. Non french players never receive such hate. Not a single one in 15 years of this board and he is like the 10th french wipping boy.
I think it's somewhat impressive how some can ignore hate on so many other players on the team and only care about certain whipping boys because they're French. Poor Murray/Bourque. Heck DD has such a huge fan following that the fact a few people not thinking he's ideal for this team makes him a 'whipping boy'.

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03-30-2014, 08:41 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
False.


False.

Bourque (who is Metis), Gionta (American), Bouillon (American), all get significant hate. Back in the day, people really piled on Michael Ryder (Newfoundlander), A. Kostitsyn (Belarussian), S. Kostitsyn (Belarussian), Kovalev (Russian), etc.
I think he means on Hfb in the Mtl forums..

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03-30-2014, 08:42 AM
  #100
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What about Weise the Missile ?

DD fast? Hmmm really?
But Weise cheats. there's report he stuck a rocket in his ass

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