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Vinny Lecavalier

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Old
03-30-2014, 06:22 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
Bill Meltzer said it a few weeks ago that Vinny should be moved to the 4th line C role and used on the PP. Glad to see it happen.

For all we know, Vinny and Berube had a discussion and they came to a similar understanding. Having Vinny at C is the best thing FOR VINNY and the TEAM! And who knows, when Downie comes back to replace McGinn, we could be REALLY rolling 4 lines.
Not to derail the conversation re: Vinny, but Downie becomes an increasingly risk proposition to put on the ice. McGinn is may not be much of an upgrade at this point.

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03-30-2014, 06:47 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
Bill Meltzer said it a few weeks ago that Vinny should be moved to the 4th line C role and used on the PP. Glad to see it happen.

For all we know, Vinny and Berube had a discussion and they came to a similar understanding. Having Vinny at C is the best thing FOR VINNY and the TEAM! And who knows, when Downie comes back to replace McGinn, we could be REALLY rolling 4 lines.
The Media insinuated that Vinny took it hard... I was at the Toronto game and watched him at the warm-ups... he looked focused and he worked harder in the warm-up than he seemed to usually -- from my non-professional outsider and in the stands observation -- and also seemed more determined when the puck dropped in the Game.

It can be said that he had his back against the wall... BUT... it can also be said that he found himself in a more comfortable position and felt that he could have a bigger impact. He does seem to have more of in impact at Center IMO.

So, was the Media perception and reporting of a distraught Vinney who was pissed off at Berube and the Flyers' placing him out of position after they recruited him as the Number Two Center in Lavy's Run And Gun Offense correct... or is it more like Berube and Vinny agreeing that they should expect more out of him and that the only way of doing so was placing him back at Center, and that the best way to do that without regressing B. Schenn was to play him on a Fourth Line with a greater role and minutes and also on the PP?... And Vinny focusing on his new old role and getting back to his elite standing and earning his big buck with a better feeling going forward... I tend to believe that Lecavalier bought into this 'Fourth Line/PP role.

All that said... The way Vinny has stepped up and contributed and displayed his talents and booming shot has been nothing short of fantastic, on the small sample... and more so with the optimism about him in the current Stretch Run and upcoming Post Season.

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03-30-2014, 07:29 PM
  #303
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I really have this feeling like Vinny is starting to feel it, and I get the impression that he is gonna play his you know what off if/when the playoffs roll around, seems like his intensity is ramping up... He could be one of those key cogs

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03-30-2014, 08:59 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Snipsnap12 View Post
I really have this feeling like Vinny is starting to feel it, and I get the impression that he is gonna play his you know what off if/when the playoffs roll around, seems like his intensity is ramping up... He could be one of those key cogs
Vinny could easily be the new Briere.. effort lacking in the regular season and turns it on for the playoffs. I would be happy with that.

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03-30-2014, 09:16 PM
  #305
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Its really nice to see Vinny playing better and if it continues and they decide to move him off the fourth line, I would try either

Schenn-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Raffl-Couturier-Read

or

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Raffl-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Schenn

With that being said, it kind of pisses me off how much better he has played the last 2 games. While I realize that he played more than a decade in the NHL at the center position and it takes a while to adjust to a new position, it baffles me that a player of his talent could look like he doesn't even belong in the NHL when he was on the wing. Seems to me that he is disinterested if things aren't going his way or his intelligence is so low he cant figure out his assignment. I mean he was easily our worst and least useful forward for months. At least Hall kills penalties and is an ace on faceoffs, Rinaldo draws penalties when he is on his game, and Downie plays well with Couturier and Read most of the time. Lecavalier was a complete detriment to the team while playing the wing. I just don't think a player of his talent and experience level can be as bad as he was on the LW if he was giving it his all.

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03-30-2014, 09:22 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
Vinny could easily be the new Briere.. effort lacking in the regular season and turns it on for the playoffs. I would be happy with that.
I would not be happy with that. If that is the case I would rather trade him for peanuts and get wing or center who can play a better two way game for the whole season than for a quarter of it. I don't want to see us have a line that is ineffective for much of the season like the Lecavalier-Schenn-Simmonds line has been this year and the Briere lines were the last two seasons


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03-30-2014, 10:16 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I would not be happy with that. If that is the case I would rather trade him for peanuts and get wing or center who can play a better two way game for the whole season than for a quarter of it. I don't want to see us have a line that is ineffective for much of the season like the Lecavalier-Schenn-Simmonds line has been this year and the Briere lines were the last two seasons
I think we can get more out of Vinny than we saw this year if we move him to center like you said and move Schenn up to G's LW.

But it's Vincent frickin' Lecavalier, when he turns it on he can be a game changer. The leadership and experience you get with him only adds to his value. He's the kind of guy that can be huge on a cup run and I think he's worth keeping around for that even if he's lackluster in the regular season. He's got the best shot on our team as well which is something we need.

Maybe giving him time on G's RW would give him motivation for the regular season, isn't that what we hinted at to get him to sign? I thought G and Vinny have had good chemistry the few times I've seen them making plays together and giving G someone with Vinny's shot to feed pucks to could turn out well. Voracek on the 2nd could make that line much more deadly as well and spreads out our puck possession guys.

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03-30-2014, 11:08 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Its really nice to see Vinny playing better and if it continues and they decide to move him off the fourth line, I would try either

Schenn-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Raffl-Couturier-Read

or

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Raffl-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Schenn

With that being said, it kind of pisses me off how much better he has played the last 2 games. While I realize that he played more than a decade in the NHL at the center position and it takes a while to adjust to a new position, it baffles me that a player of his talent could look like he doesn't even belong in the NHL when he was on the wing. Seems to me that he is disinterested if things aren't going his way or his intelligence is so low he cant figure out his assignment. I mean he was easily our worst and least useful forward for months. At least Hall kills penalties and is an ace on faceoffs, Rinaldo draws penalties when he is on his game, and Downie plays well with Couturier and Read most of the time. Lecavalier was a complete detriment to the team while playing the wing. I just don't think a player of his talent and experience level can be as bad as he was on the LW if he was giving it his all.
Maybe Appleyard or someone else can demonstrate how Vinny's quality of competition has changed since being on the fourth line.

Remember, Vinny may be back at center, but presumably he's still operating light years beyond your average fourth liners. So you've got to disentangle whether this is about his positioning or his competition.

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03-31-2014, 12:13 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Snipsnap12 View Post
I really have this feeling like Vinny is starting to feel it, and I get the impression that he is gonna play his you know what off if/when the playoffs roll around, seems like his intensity is ramping up... He could be one of those key cogs
He has the ability to be a gamebreaker, but his size matters too. He's a great asset in hard checking games like today.

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Old
03-31-2014, 09:05 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Maybe Appleyard or someone else can demonstrate how Vinny's quality of competition has changed since being on the fourth line.

Remember, Vinny may be back at center, but presumably he's still operating light years beyond your average fourth liners. So you've got to disentangle whether this is about his positioning or his competition.
You have a point here. If he is playing better and it is simply because he is playing against lower quality players then I would still look to move him this offseason.

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03-31-2014, 11:20 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
Vinny could easily be the new Briere.. effort lacking in the regular season and turns it on for the playoffs. I would be happy with that.
What? No! That would be awful.

I know Vinny has had 2 good games skating on the 4th line. But some of you guys are being fooled into thinking this is sustainable at 2C. It isn't. His defense just isn't good enough to be a regular 2C. This contract is still a disaster that needs to be moved ASAP.

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03-31-2014, 11:35 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
What? No! That would be awful.

I know Vinny has had 2 good games skating on the 4th line. But some of you guys are being fooled into thinking this is sustainable at 2C. It isn't. His defense just isn't good enough to be a regular 2C. This contract is still a disaster that needs to be moved ASAP.
I agree with this, but I would be very happy if he proved me wrong

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03-31-2014, 12:31 PM
  #313
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If his contract is a "disaster" then no team would be dumb enough to trade for him except for the Leafs, and they don't have the cap space because they signed Clarkson to an contract that's really a disaster.

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03-31-2014, 12:38 PM
  #314
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The contract may not be good to some, but I'd reserve the "disaster" label for guys like David Clarkson and Stephen Weiss.

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03-31-2014, 01:05 PM
  #315
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Yeah. For what he can provide, the contract really ain't bad at all. I mean, if he can turn it up on the playoffs a la Briere, he could spend the rest of that contract being a PP specialist and the league's best fourth line C all regular season. He has talent enough.

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03-31-2014, 01:12 PM
  #316
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Vinny was playing hurt and recovering as well as out of position for most of this season -- and before that he was arguably the best Flyers forward until the fight where he was injured... which I believe was a much greater injury than they let on... like a fractured jaw -- With his being returned to his natural position he has played extremely well once again.

It must be realized that his 4th line status has not necessarily placed him against the weaker competition that normal 4th liners who play only a few minutes plays against... He has played extended minutes and thus against extended competition... Please note also he has not had the minus stats that 4th lines rack up on a normal basis. I'd venture to say that he has not been the 'normal' 4th line Center these past two Games.

Also, in his natural position he has not been a disaster -- remember he was signed as a Center and paid as a high lined Center -- He played with enough defensive talent to be the #1 Center on a Cup winning team, so it is not like he doesn't have the ability to be a #2 Center... It is more like playing out of his natural position after so many years has put him out of kilter and hindered his ability on the D responsibilities. After all we are talking about a player who has scored over 400 Goals in the NHL and has done so primarily as a top line Center, with top line responsibility... he has the hands and the smarts and the passing sense, and he has not suddenly become a player with no defensive sense.

If Berube can fit him in at the position Homer signed him for... and he excels there. shouldn't that be done and allow him not to be a so called disaster? The Chief seems to have a good handle and it has paid benefits lately... Lecavalier is an exceptional talent who should betaken advantage of... if they can do so without regressing B. Schenn, that is fantastic in my eyes.

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03-31-2014, 01:16 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by COMCASTMONEY View Post
Yeah. For what he can provide, the contract really ain't bad at all. I mean, if he can turn it up on the playoffs a la Briere, he could spend the rest of that contract being a PP specialist and the league's best fourth line C all regular season. He has talent enough.
That's a terrible way to build a team. We could use the cap space on defense.

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03-31-2014, 01:38 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
That's a terrible way to build a team. We could use the cap space on defense.
Unless there's defense worth the money, that's also a terrible way to build the team. Considering we have one of the most expensive defenses in th e league already, I don't see why you would want to allocate the additional space for diminishing results.

If Lecavalier plays like himself in the playoffs he is worth every cent. Here's hoping.

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03-31-2014, 01:50 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
That's a terrible way to build a team. We could use the cap space on defense.
Our blueline is already one of the most expensive in the NHL. More money allocated =/= more production

Edit: Comcast beat me to it!

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03-31-2014, 01:57 PM
  #320
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Why is it so hard for some people to see that:

Vinny at C>>>> Vinny at Wing

Philly has put him into a position to fail. He tried the wing, said he sucked at it, showed he sucked at it and is now back at C.

Having him on the 4th line REALLY does help the team though. Look at a team like Anahiem that has Bonino as their 4th line C, yet racks up points...plays the PP.

Would we be surprised if he signed Iginla, threw him at C, then wondered why he struggled? Of course not.

Before getting injured + last 2 games at C:

17 points in 24 games....58 point pace

after injury as a winger:

16 points in 37 games...35 point pace.

Let him play C, regardless of the line he plays on. He is not a winger. Never was, never will be.

Edit: Also, Schenn has 9 points in his last 26 games while Vinny has 14 in his last 26 games. Moving Schenn to LW is not going to "hurt" his present play.


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03-31-2014, 01:58 PM
  #321
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I would rather spend the 4.5 on a two way winger or center instead of a power play specialist. Just like I would also rather not pay Grossmann 3.5 million to be a penalty kill specialist. If we aren't going to have a true #1 d-man, then we need more players (both forwards and defenseman) who can play well at both ends of the ice.

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03-31-2014, 02:03 PM
  #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
Why is it so hard for some people to see that:

Vinny at C>>>> Vinny at Wing

Philly has put him into a position to fail. He tried the wing, said he sucked at it, showed he sucked at it and is now back at C.

Having him on the 4th line REALLY does help the team though. Look at a team like Anahiem that has Bonino as their 4th line C, yet racks up points...plays the PP.

Would we be surprised if he signed Iginla, threw him at C, then wondered why he struggled? Of course not.

Before getting injured + last 2 games at C:

17 points in 24 games....58 point pace

after injury as a winger:

16 points in 37 games...35 point pace.

Let him play C, regardless of the line he plays on. He is not a winger. Never was, never will be.
While I agree that he needs to play center, how can someone of his talent look like he doesn't even belong in the NHL just because he changed positions regardless of how long he has played center in his career? I understand there are some challenges to making the switch, but its not like we are asking him to be a defenseman. It seems like more of an unwillingness to change than an inability. There are players all over the NHL that have made the switch from center to wing and seem just fine

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03-31-2014, 02:16 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
While I agree that he needs to play center, how can someone of his talent look like he doesn't even belong in the NHL just because he changed positions regardless of how long he has played center in his career? I understand there are some challenges to making the switch, but its not like we are asking him to be a defenseman. It seems like more of an unwillingness to change than an inability. There are players all over the NHL that have made the switch from center to wing and seem just fine
While I agree, most of those changes are not done by 15 year veteran players. We brought him in to play #2C. He was fine in that role but lost his spot to injury. I uderstand NOT giving him that spot back because that line was playing so well. But now they are not. Now taht Vinny is getting his confidence back, move Schenn to G's wing and Hartnell back down to line #2.

Now in saying that, Berube has them playing a great team game and really, we shouldn't be complaining too much based on the results we have seen.

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03-31-2014, 02:33 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Our blueline is already one of the most expensive in the NHL. More money allocated =/= more production

Edit: Comcast beat me to it!
I didn't say spend it on another 4/5 defenseman who is overpaid like Mesz. Jesus.

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03-31-2014, 02:34 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
I didn't say spend it on another 4/5 defenseman who is overpaid like Mesz. Jesus.
Right, but if you're going the FA route to sign someone, what kind of Dman do you think will be available?

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