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Old
04-01-2014, 10:48 AM
  #101
triggrman
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
At this point my only gripe with Trotz is his questionable line ups.
Really? You're ok with the dump and chase grind fest we use? I didn't mind it so much when we were more aggressive but that seemed to stop after the DRW series. I’d much rather have a coach the emphasized puck possession and passing. I’d love to see us use our defensemen in longer passes and utilizing the speed we have on the wings better. IMHO, we have more offensive defensemen than most teams in the league, and I really don't see us using it as much of an advantage as I think we could. Instead of dumping the puck ALL the time, I’d like to see us regroup with our defensemen more and hit the neutral zone with speed. I hate how much we give up the puck by design, I'd much rather see us keep possession more.

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04-01-2014, 10:50 AM
  #102
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One object who has always been in the equation in many failures and lack of meeting expectations..... Trotz!

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Old
04-01-2014, 11:30 AM
  #103
glenngineer
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Byrd, we all complained about Cullen not producing yet here he is producing with better linemates in Fisher and Hornqvist. You try and find guys that will work together and be able to produce together. It's about the sum of the parts as opposed to the individual pieces.

You mentioned Smith not producing this month. Could it coincide with Legwand leaving and they had decent chemistry? Jarnkrok, Smith and Bourque have looked good together in a small sample size yet don't have the results we'd like. Cullen, Fisher and Horny are doing well together as Horny and Cullen have come alive the last 10 games.

Stalberg is not an answer in any way shape or form for this team. Wilson was with him and MVG the other night. Does that give Wilson any talent to play with? It was like asking Forsberg to play with Fiddler to some extent when he was here.

You'll bash Wilson for lack of production as we bashed Legwand for lack of production for years. One big similarity was lack of PP time. Most top 6 forwards get ample amounts of time on the PP yet these two, who are counted on to produce only get even strength time. Legwand finally got PP time this year and his production was up. Wilson was given a chance when Legwand was traded yet is not on the PP after about 5 or so games of trying. Amazing how Spaling's numbers are higher because he's out there on the PP a bunch this year. If you want to get a guy going offensively, the PP is usually a good way to do it.

If you were the coach and you had these 4 forwards to play the second unit, who would you play. Jarnkrok, Smith, Spaling and Wilson?

Maybe Trotz sees these 4 and his first PP unit and goes in alphabetical order and Wilson is the odd guy out. Kidding of course but it's as logical as him not being out there too. To me it's like taking a screwdriver to try and nail something in to the wall. Eventually it'll go in but it takes longer and doesn't really ever get flush and hold.

And for heaven's sake, if we're really trying to go by the theory of our top 9 are going to be our offense, play the top 9 more, not the top 12. Give the 4th line PK time and a shift or two a period, other than that, Gaustad, Clune and Nystrom don't need to be on the ice. 6-8 minutes, give the rest of the minutes to the top 9. 17 minutes or so a night for each of them. More talent on the ice would probably result in better results.

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Old
04-01-2014, 03:13 PM
  #104
Preds33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Really? You're ok with the dump and chase grind fest we use? I didn't mind it so much when we were more aggressive but that seemed to stop after the DRW series. I’d much rather have a coach the emphasized puck possession and passing. I’d love to see us use our defensemen in longer passes and utilizing the speed we have on the wings better. IMHO, we have more offensive defensemen than most teams in the league, and I really don't see us using it as much of an advantage as I think we could. Instead of dumping the puck ALL the time, I’d like to see us regroup with our defensemen more and hit the neutral zone with speed. I hate how much we give up the puck by design, I'd much rather see us keep possession more.
I think playing players on the right line combinations will help with the dump and chase some. I have noticed that the Bourque - Jarnkrok - Smith line doesn't seem to do that as much. Not saying they don't do it, it just seems as though they carry it in more than the other lines.

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Old
04-01-2014, 04:13 PM
  #105
Armourboy
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
I think playing players on the right line combinations will help with the dump and chase some. I have noticed that the Bourque - Jarnkrok - Smith line doesn't seem to do that as much. Not saying they don't do it, it just seems as though they carry it in more than the other lines.
Probably because Jarnkrok and Smith tend to handle the puck a bit better than some of the others.

Say what you will about Trotz, you can blame him or not, but my biggest fault with him this year is that there has been zero consistency in the lines, not just game to game but from minute to minute. Sometimes guys do need to be moved around if its just not working or no longer working, but he hasn't left them alone long enough to have any form of cohesion really.

Don't get me wrong, the guys haven't played very well this season, and I think a good chunk ( if not most) of the blame is with them, however as a coach you need to do things to make the team better, and I'm not sure at any point this season I felt like anything was done to make the team better.

Now whether its happened or not is one thing, but my perception of it is that Trotz spent the entire year moving guys up and down the line up because they messed up or didn't mess up, not because it made the line or team better as a whole.

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04-01-2014, 06:27 PM
  #106
Phototropic
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Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
Now whether its happened or not is one thing, but my perception of it is that Trotz spent the entire year moving guys up and down the line up because they messed up or didn't mess up, not because it made the line or team better as a whole.
Valid or not, that is certainly the impression I get as well.

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Old
04-01-2014, 06:59 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Byrd, we all complained about Cullen not producing yet here he is producing with better linemates in Fisher and Hornqvist. You try and find guys that will work together and be able to produce together. It's about the sum of the parts as opposed to the individual pieces.

You mentioned Smith not producing this month. Could it coincide with Legwand leaving and they had decent chemistry? Jarnkrok, Smith and Bourque have looked good together in a small sample size yet don't have the results we'd like. Cullen, Fisher and Horny are doing well together as Horny and Cullen have come alive the last 10 games.

Stalberg is not an answer in any way shape or form for this team. Wilson was with him and MVG the other night. Does that give Wilson any talent to play with? It was like asking Forsberg to play with Fiddler to some extent when he was here.

You'll bash Wilson for lack of production as we bashed Legwand for lack of production for years. One big similarity was lack of PP time. Most top 6 forwards get ample amounts of time on the PP yet these two, who are counted on to produce only get even strength time. Legwand finally got PP time this year and his production was up. Wilson was given a chance when Legwand was traded yet is not on the PP after about 5 or so games of trying. Amazing how Spaling's numbers are higher because he's out there on the PP a bunch this year. If you want to get a guy going offensively, the PP is usually a good way to do it.

If you were the coach and you had these 4 forwards to play the second unit, who would you play. Jarnkrok, Smith, Spaling and Wilson?

Maybe Trotz sees these 4 and his first PP unit and goes in alphabetical order and Wilson is the odd guy out. Kidding of course but it's as logical as him not being out there too. To me it's like taking a screwdriver to try and nail something in to the wall. Eventually it'll go in but it takes longer and doesn't really ever get flush and hold.

And for heaven's sake, if we're really trying to go by the theory of our top 9 are going to be our offense, play the top 9 more, not the top 12. Give the 4th line PK time and a shift or two a period, other than that, Gaustad, Clune and Nystrom don't need to be on the ice. 6-8 minutes, give the rest of the minutes to the top 9. 17 minutes or so a night for each of them. More talent on the ice would probably result in better results.

You make a lot of good points
Until it became apparent that Stalberg was a flop Spaling was still on the 4th line the lone area where Spaling has always had more icetime than Wilson has been the PK. Perhaps Wilson was around Legwand too much meaning his pass first mentality is no different than the rest of the team. In fact Wilsons drop pass to Fish a few weeks ago was probably the best hockey play of the season, however he flubs so many plays trying to do what he did in that play he is becoming a liability. He is considerably softer along the boards since his surgery, and that may be the whole issue why we don't know.

It really makes little difference which players are on lines together every forward short of Hook have been poor at finishing this season. AT some point some of these guys need to step up. Many love to point out the dramatic improvement of Smith, at times he has a beautiful scoring play. He continues to be mediocre at finishing missing gaping open nets, firing shots from the slot and being wide by feet. It has nothing to do with the players on the ice with him at the time when he misses the net so badly. I do not have an explanation for that. He has 20 goals but could easily be approaching 30 if he had finished just a few of the numerous scoring chances he has had. Most here have became complacent and free to give him and others a pass. Excuses for me have worn past thin. If it takes a coaching change fine but its going to take a roster makeover as well, and Jarnkrok is the lone forward currently on the roster I would put off limits.

As for the PP the only way I can see to make the forwards more productive there would be to put Goose on one and Horni on the other with instructions to glue themselves in the crease. The reason is two fold the lack of finish from the forwards and the prominence of most shots on the PP are coming from the perimeter from defensemen. The other forwards are interchangeable unless Jarnkrok develops chemistry with another forward.

As for the TOI of the 4th line much of the increase seems to be the amount of time the special teams have been out there and the way the PK and PP are pieced together. The team is 4th in the league for most time on the PK something that has been an issue. Total PK time for the year is 372.55 and pp total time 383.57 or a total of 756 minutes on special teams thru 76 game for just a few seconds short of 10 minutes per game. That's a good chunk of time the lines are out of kilter resting the special teams players. Its a vicious cycle that we know can ruin a whole period.

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