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Old
04-03-2014, 04:14 PM
  #26
NYRSchrute217
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Vigneault has done a good job. He can't make Richards or St. Louis stop handling the puck like it's a grenade. I'd like them to be more consistent defensively, as it seems like occasionally we struggle with the man to man coverage, but overall he's done a good job with the hand he's been dealt.

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04-03-2014, 04:16 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post

To be fair it has to be mentioned AV obviously did not get the best out of Callahan, and Nash has been Nash - long periods of good (now, before the Olympics) and long periods of invisible (after the Olympics, before the Canadian Olympic team was announced).
Does AV get any credit for the season McDonagh is having?

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04-03-2014, 04:21 PM
  #28
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Does AV get any credit for the season McDonagh is having?
I think so. Its more AV's system but Denis Potvin was talking on NHL radio a couple weeks ago about the goal McDonagh scored against the Flyers and how it takes confidence from the player to pull of a play like that - but more importantly it showed the confidence that the coach has in a player to be ok making such a aggressive play It made sense.


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04-03-2014, 04:41 PM
  #29
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Does AV get any credit for the season McDonagh is having?
Absolutely. I tried to make that come through in my OP. Not just McDonagh, a number of players have stepped up this year, and AV gets full credit for that.

I think a good part is confidence which comes from positive reinforcement, as opposed to negative reinforcement some of them were receiving.

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04-03-2014, 05:20 PM
  #30
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Good Sign

It's a good sign and AV deserve some props because in his first full year, it's highly probable that he gets this team to the playoffs. Torts was unable to do this in his first full year with both the NYR and the Canucks (and TB for that matter).

At the end of the day, it's all going to boil down to:
1) Expectations
2) How well the team performs in the playoffs.

Arguably, underperforming in the playoffs (compared to expectations) is what cost AV his prior job... not how well the team played in the regular season.

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04-03-2014, 05:32 PM
  #31
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Also have to give AV credit for developing a fourth line - something that always eluded Torts. I think that will help if we have to go from one grueling playoff series right into another.
Torts never wanted an effective 4th line. He wanted two top lines he could ride offensively, and a checking 3rd line, and a useless 4th line he could stash punch guys on.

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04-03-2014, 05:52 PM
  #32
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Torts never wanted an effective 4th line. He wanted two top lines he could ride offensively, and a checking 3rd line, and a useless 4th line he could stash punch guys on.
That's one of the biggest changes with AV over Torts... regulation of playing time. Rolling 4 lines throughout the season has kept these guys fresh for the late run. Like you said, Torts barely even recognizes that he has a 4th line and 3rd pairing. Throughout 82 games, especially with Torts style of collapsing and blocking shots defensively, he would ride the same horses to death and the team was dead come playoffs every season. Shortening the bench in the playoffs isn't always a bad idea, especially if the top 9 and top 4 haven't been worked to death in the regular season.

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04-03-2014, 06:02 PM
  #33
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That's one of the biggest changes with AV over Torts... regulation of playing time. Rolling 4 lines throughout the season has kept these guys fresh for the late run. Like you said, Torts barely even recognizes that he has a 4th line and 3rd pairing. Throughout 82 games, especially with Torts style of collapsing and blocking shots defensively, he would ride the same horses to death and the team was dead come playoffs every season. Shortening the bench in the playoffs isn't always a bad idea, especially if the top 9 and top 4 haven't been worked to death in the regular season.
I'll never forget the triple overtime game against Washington in the playoffs where Bickel played like 4 minutes and McDonagh and Girardi both ended up playing about a full hour

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04-03-2014, 06:31 PM
  #34
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I've been pleasantly surprised by him. It came off as such an incredibly lazy choice by Sather at the time. But I am definitely happy so far.

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04-03-2014, 07:00 PM
  #35
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Gotten about as much out of this team as Torts did last year.

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04-03-2014, 07:12 PM
  #36
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I really, really like AV. A lot more than Torts, and I liked Torts (although I was a big supporter of his firing last season).

To me, he comes off an incredibly intelligent and confident in his game plan, while being even keeled and smart with most of his personnel decisions. I haven't really been a fan of how he's handled Miller, and his scratching of Dom Moore still baffles me, but there have been a LOT more pros to the hiring than cons, IMO.

I've seen people expressing dissatisfaction with his defensive "system", but, honestly, I feel that's more indicative of our forwards lack of defensively ability than anything. He puts an emphasis on putting pressure on in the d-zone, but I don't see him utilizing straight man to man - seems to be a good mix of zone/man. I would, however, agree that the slot could be defended a bit better, although I'm not sure if that's AV's "system" or the forwards lack of defensive ability.

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04-03-2014, 07:17 PM
  #37
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I like AV. Watching Rangers hockey has become a lot more fun with him.

I still wonder how Dallas Eakins would have worked out for us though. A lot of people wanted him, I was pretty interested myself.

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04-03-2014, 07:21 PM
  #38
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I think AV is a very smart coach, and one that is on top of his matchups while playing the game at high speed.

My appreciation of him really came to the forefront during the games against DET when the Rangers went into the 1-4 to counter transition DET's style of hockey. He outcoached Babcock in those games and did so by making adjustments.

The team is far more dynamic than before, and when they are on, they are rolling. A really smart coach when it comes to distributing minutes.

However I was thinking that there are few teams that his system can't go up against until late in the season when I started seeing better end zone coverage, and guys not always chasing or pressuring. This shows me that he has the team adjusting to the competition, which wasn't the case earlier this year.

My concerns about him are that he isn't inclined to play young players or live with their mistakes, and all of the grinder type of players are playing 4th line or minor league minutes.

I love the fact that he is getting a lot more mileage from guys like Pouliot and Stralman than I would have ever expected. To me the east is for the taking as long as the Rangers don't face Boston, or get too worn out in a long Philly series... and this is something that I wouldn't have said even a month ago.

The adjustments he's made, and how he's coached is more dynamic than what we saw with Torts.

However there have been too many games where the Rangers played down to the competition, games against, EDM, Carolina, and the early season woes, and the lack of energy starting home games are the only motivational shortcomings with AV.

Also I sense a distinct French player bias with him, and this might rub some guys the wrong way. All in all he's a done a great job of turning the ship around after a disastrous start.

Now someone get Winnie Cooper in this thread before it gets locked.

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04-03-2014, 08:51 PM
  #39
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like his style offensively.

dont like it defensively.

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04-03-2014, 09:20 PM
  #40
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Completely wrong on AV, this guy is world class. Glad to be proven wrong.

Thanks Vancouver!

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04-03-2014, 09:22 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by aim2win View Post
It's a good sign and AV deserve some props because in his first full year, it's highly probable that he gets this team to the playoffs. Torts was unable to do this in his first full year with both the NYR and the Canucks (and TB for that matter).

At the end of the day, it's all going to boil down to:
1) Expectations
2) How well the team performs in the playoffs.

Arguably, underperforming in the playoffs (compared to expectations) is what cost AV his prior job... not how well the team played in the regular season.
thats what this is all about it!! we know glen will buy any player to make the playoffs but a team is measured by playoffs and championships..

I hated AV at first, because i loved tort's emotion and how fired up he was and thought av was very laid back and wouldnt get the most out of this team.. boy was i wrong.. not only is he doing a great job, but when was the last time we had scoring depth like this? this isnt a team relayed on by one scorer (jagr, gaborik, now nash) but now 3 scoring lines with an awesome 4th..

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04-04-2014, 12:29 AM
  #42
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I liked Torts for the most part, but I gotta say, possession hockey, even when it's not perfect, is way more exciting than defense first, second and third.

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04-04-2014, 07:45 AM
  #43
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The Rangers offensive and defensive systems are intertwined. Get the puck back and go on the offensive.

Sitting back and collapsing five players around the net AND getting the puck back in bad spots on the ice doesn't help any transition to offense.

The Rangers haven't given up many goals since November.

Mike Gillis is ready to chuck Tortorella out the door. Go back to playing puck possession.

The Rangers need better personnel. That's on management.

Vigneault needs to watch what he says.

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04-04-2014, 08:57 AM
  #44
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The Rangers offensive and defensive systems are intertwined. Get the puck back and go on the offensive.

Sitting back and collapsing five players around the net AND getting the puck back in bad spots on the ice doesn't help any transition to offense.

The Rangers haven't given up many goals since November.

Mike Gillis is ready to chuck Tortorella out the door. Go back to playing puck possession.

The Rangers need better personnel. That's on management.

Vigneault needs to watch what he says.
Definitely agree on the bolded.

Part of why I've liked AV a lot is that he took a roster with different players that play different styles, and did the best he could to mold them to play his game. Sather needs a few d-men that can handle the puck. McDonagh, Stralman, and Staal can't be the only ones that can carry a puck.

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04-04-2014, 09:27 AM
  #45
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That's one of the biggest changes with AV over Torts... regulation of playing time. Rolling 4 lines throughout the season has kept these guys fresh for the late run. Like you said, Torts barely even recognizes that he has a 4th line and 3rd pairing. Throughout 82 games, especially with Torts style of collapsing and blocking shots defensively, he would ride the same horses to death and the team was dead come playoffs every season. Shortening the bench in the playoffs isn't always a bad idea, especially if the top 9 and top 4 haven't been worked to death in the regular season.
You also see the results of Torts riding his top lines too hard with the Canucks this season. The Sedins just got worn down and accumulated injuries and his team collapsed in the second half

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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
like his style offensively.

dont like it defensively.
I like the defense sometimes and other times the forwards especially get lost, but can't argue too hard with 5th in the league in goals against per game and I don't feel like it's just Lundqvist all alone either.

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Definitely agree on the bolded.

Part of why I've liked AV a lot is that he took a roster with different players that play different styles, and did the best he could to mold them to play his game. Sather needs a few d-men that can handle the puck. McDonagh, Stralman, and Staal can't be the only ones that can carry a puck.
John Moore can do that but he's gotta learn some things as well...he really needs to take some lessons from McDonagh on how to protect the puck while skating it. That's one thing that I don't see many people say about McDonagh but that he's really, really good at. Watch him move the puck up the ice and he's so good at using his body to protect the puck from a guy trying to check him from behind, he doesn't allow guys to tie up his stick, and can just accelerate away from them. His hands are also really damn good and his perception of how much reach an opposing player has to try to poke check him is excellent

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04-04-2014, 10:36 AM
  #46
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Moore played well last night. He misplayed the 2 on 1. Johnny will never be McDonagh or Staal. Moore was active. He was aggressive. He moved his feet. The Rangers need him to become a solid 3rd pair D. Someone who adds offense. Plays on the PP. Moore needs to shoot the puck more. In the 2nd period of the PP,Moore had some good looks. He passed the puck instead of shooting it. They need more offense from their D. Moore can give more in that area. Re-sign Staal. McDonagh and Staal will eat up most of the top minutes on the left side. Moore can contribute. Girardi and Klein on the right. There has to be a spot for McIlrath at some point next season. Prout and Miller(Boston)are regulars on their teams. Righty shots. Big and strong. Keep it simple. The forwards are the bigger problem.

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04-04-2014, 10:43 AM
  #47
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Moore played well last night. He misplayed the 2 on 1. Johnny will never be McDonagh or Staal. Moore was active. He was aggressive. He moved his feet. The Rangers need him to become a solid 3rd pair D. Someone who adds offense. Plays on the PP. Moore needs to shoot the puck more. In the 2nd period of the PP,Moore had some good looks. He passed the puck instead of shooting it. They need more offense from their D. Moore can give more in that area. Re-sign Staal. McDonagh and Staal will eat up most of the top minutes on the left side. Moore can contribute. Girardi and Klein on the right. There has to be a spot for McIlrath at some point next season. Prout and Miller(Boston)are regulars on their teams. Righty shots. Big and strong. Keep it simple. The forwards are the bigger problem.
I think Moore has it in him. I feel someone along the way tried to develop that side of his game out of him. I am not sure if it was in Columbus or when it was but he fights that urge to be a bit of a rover.

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04-04-2014, 12:08 PM
  #48
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Moore has to get bigger and stronger to be more of an effective force out there. That 2-1 he misplayed is a peewee hockey drill.. His job is to take away the pass, you have Henrik in net, no need for him to panic the way he did.

I don't think Moore has the intangibles to get to that next level.

Going back to AV, last night is an example of how he let's his team play.. Once the Rangers were on their heels, he should have pressed for them to get shots on net and work the walls instead of playing possum. He has to motivate in game because not all of the forwards bring it every shift.

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04-04-2014, 01:02 PM
  #49
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Moore has to get bigger and stronger to be more of an effective force out there. That 2-1 he misplayed is a peewee hockey drill.. His job is to take away the pass, you have Henrik in net, no need for him to panic the way he did.

I don't think Moore has the intangibles to get to that next level.

Going back to AV, last night is an example of how he let's his team play.. Once the Rangers were on their heels, he should have pressed for them to get shots on net and work the walls instead of playing possum. He has to motivate in game because not all of the forwards bring it every shift.
Eh, I think the Rangers played like a team which hasn't had an extra day off between games in 2 1/2 weeks...which will prove to be the case after the Senators' game on Saturday. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they are sluggish for that one either.

As for in general, that's what I like most about AV. That he doesn't demand or expect all-out effort every shift. He just expects the smart plays to made all the time and for the players to not get habitually lazy or stupid or both.

He lets them try to play through it & if they can't then he will step in when he has to.

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04-04-2014, 01:13 PM
  #50
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I honsetly didn't think that we had players that were capable of playing a more talent based system.

I was so used to seeing the endless dump, chase and grind it out. Dump, chase and grind it out that when the season started and the guys were having difficulties stringing together 2-3 passes to get up ice I really thought we were in for a very disappointing season.

They seems ot have turned that around and they are much more enjoyabe to watch play the game.

I think that there's a lot more balance to the team now than what we had in years past.

Don't know what teh stats say, but I feel like we actually generate more scoring chances from the front of the net in this system than we did under Torts.

I think that AV has done a better than expected job considering the lack of a true and tested top 6 LW'er and a PMD.

I think the players here have stepped up large as well.

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