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David Desharnais Discussions - Part III - Montreal's Masterton nominee

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Old
04-04-2014, 10:32 AM
  #726
Crimson Skorpion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
Is that right? Let me ask you a question: who faces opposing top lines now?

Is it the Pacioretty-DD-Vanek line?
- if so, then my new lines should pose no problem, as we have Plekanec and Vanek together, so while Briere may be a defensive downgrade from Patches, Plekanec is an upgrade from DD, so that's a wash; they're just as, if not more, defensively sound as our current 1st line.

Maybe it's the Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gallagher line?
- if that's the case, great; I have Gally and Chuck still together, and while Pacioretty isn't as good as Pleks defensively, I don't think the switch turns this line into swiss cheese.

Is it our ad hoc third line, featuring Briere and Gionta?
- My current 3rd line still features Gionta, has Eller, and replaces Briere with DD, who as I've pointed out, has been lauded by many as being defensively sound (only .14 GA/60 minutes worse than Plekanec!!)

Perhaps it's our 4th line?
- they're unchanged, so no problem here either.

So really, not sure what the issue is?
Well my issue is, you need a capable line of shutting down the opponent's top line. Plekanec does a fine job with Gionta on his wing. Yes, you sacrifice his production but you're trading that off for solid defensive work. Moen is a horse on the PK, so would a Moen-Plekanec-Gionta line work out? I'd be in favor of it.

The problem with sticking Plecky between the two Gallys is that you are now expecting two youngsters to aid Plekanec in shutting people down. That may or may not work out but at the same time you are going against your own argument of the Gallys regression offensively. They won't put up big numbers when they are depended on to shut down other top lines.

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04-04-2014, 10:43 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Crimson Skorpion View Post
Well my issue is, you need a capable line of shutting down the opponent's top line. Plekanec does a fine job with Gionta on his wing. Yes, you sacrifice his production but you're trading that off for solid defensive work. Moen is a horse on the PK, so would a Moen-Plekanec-Gionta line work out? I'd be in favor of it.

The problem with sticking Plecky between the two Gallys is that you are now expecting two youngsters to aid Plekanec in shutting people down. That may or may not work out but at the same time you are going against your own argument of the Gallys regression offensively. They won't put up big numbers when they are depended on to shut down other top lines.
Moen-Plekanec-Gio in a shutdown role = 20 minutes a game
20 minutes a game of Moen-Plek-Gionta = Barely no scoring chances for 1/3 of the game

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta That's a shutdown 2-way line.

That's a line a wouldn't be scared to put on the ice 20 minutes a games against anybody.

But i also think of Bournival/Briere - Plekanec - Gionta with a variation with Moen when the game situation calls for it. Just having Moen there all the time would be almost ridicule with the depth the Habs got upfront.

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04-04-2014, 10:46 AM
  #728
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Go Habs Go!

Oops, I mean Go Habs(excluding DD) Go

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04-04-2014, 10:47 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by SAKS AVENUE View Post
If we had a player that could muscle away DD's position at #1 Center it would happen. So called player would work his way in undeniably. That hasn't happened yet, actually DD just keeps rising to the occasion.

Watch the games, enjoy, he's playing well. If Eller, or Galchenyuk want it? Go get it.

I'm sure DD is used to getting his feelings hurt, that's what has made him who he is. The comments here mean nothing to him. I say Bravo! to the little ****er.
From game 1 of Therrien coaching this team until he broke up the EGG line permanently (67 games for both Eller and DD). Eller had produced 50% more points than DD, and did it on the third line, with minimal PP time, and at least one grinder for the majority of that time. Whereas DD was used as the top offensive line, with the teams best goal scoring wingers and significant PP time.

How is 43 pts to 29pts not undeniably better when the 43pts come from the 3rd line and the 29pts come from the top line?

You can claim nobody is playing undeniably better than DD right now, but even if someone was what makes you think it would be any different?

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04-04-2014, 11:01 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
From game 1 of Therrien coaching this team until he broke up the EGG line permanently (67 games for both Eller and DD). Eller had produced 50% more points than DD, and did it on the third line, with minimal PP time, and at least one grinder for the majority of that time. Whereas DD was used as the top offensive line, with the teams best goal scoring wingers and significant PP time.

How is 43 pts to 29pts not undeniably better when the 43pts come from the 3rd line and the 29pts come from the top line?

You can claim nobody is playing undeniably better than DD right now, but even if someone was what makes you think it would be any different?
So he should have been able to do so again this year, shouldn't he? Especially with the teams's top prospect on his wing? Or could it be that Mr Eller's troubles are mostly due to... Mr Eller himself?

But buck up, all his not lost. It's April and Lars is due for his monthly point any game now!

Since the beginning of the year: 34GP 2G 2A 4PTS -17.


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04-04-2014, 11:05 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Go Habs Go!

Oops, I mean Go Habs(excluding DD) Go
Grow DD Grow !

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04-04-2014, 11:10 AM
  #732
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Grow DD Grow !
If he did we wouldn't have these threads

As someone who is 6'4 I'm not particularly concerned with his size. I think it can be overrated in regards to on ice performance.

I think big wingers is a better playoff success indicator than big centers.

Both help though.

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04-04-2014, 11:18 AM
  #733
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
If he did we wouldn't have these threads

As someone who is 6'4 I'm not particularly concerned with his size. I think it can be overrated in regards to on ice performance.

I think big wingers is a better playoff success indicator than big centers.

Both help though.
The problem with DD isn't his size, it's the fact that he is easily neutralized due to his size. If he were bigger and still neutralized with relative ease, that would be a massive problem. There are other areas in his game that people have a problem with that have nothing to do with size.

I don't see anyone crying about Gallagher or Gionta's lack of size. No one talks about Weaver's size.

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04-04-2014, 11:31 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
So he should have been able to do so again this year, shouldn't he? Especially with the teams's top prospect on his wing? Or could it be that Mr Eller's troubles are mostly due to... Mr Eller himself?

But buck up, all his not lost. It's April and Lars is due for his monthly point any game now!

Since the beginning of the year: 34GP 2G 2A 4PTS -17.
You either missed or are intentionally avoiding the point.

The poster I replied to said that nobody has earned the spot that DD has. I pointed out that Eller had earned it but still didn't get it. So it doesn't matter if Eller puts up 4 points or 40 points, Therrien has already shown that nothing Eller does is good enough to take DD's spot away.

If hypothetically Eller had 30 pts this year instead of 4. Who here thinks he'd have replaced DD as the #1 offensive line?

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04-04-2014, 11:37 AM
  #735
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Originally Posted by SmurfsFTW View Post
The debate is turning into pointless rethoric at this point.

Eller vs DD.

One that did 10 points in last 55 games BUT could have more points if playing with better linemates.

One that slumped for almost 1/4 of a season but managed to pick up his game, plays with our best wingers. Would probably have less points if playing with the wingers that play with Eller.

Arguments stalls at 'fact Eller would have more points given top wingers'. Pro DD says 'No, opinion ain't a fact', pro Eller says 'I know I got my own crystal ball' 'DD ain't top 30' ' DD had a huge and terrible slump' 'Eller slumps' 'He plays with dead weights'

On and on and on. At least on Leafs board their scapegoat is really bad. Here DD can be somehow, kind of good. Lots of shortcomings, but really generates a lot of scoring for his wingers. With that said, yes I am on these boards defending him, but I too can see that he's the weakest link of the trio with Pac and Vanek. Not even close to their caliber. DD at best on a good team would obviously fall down to the 2nd-3rd offensive options.

Eller seems lost. Was expecting him to carry on his hot start, but he's still young and raw. Some players take more time to developp I wouldn't throw him under the bus yet. But playing him and Gally together is too raw IMO. That's why both are trailing in the +- dpt. Eller is less raw defensively, but offensively he seems to play instinctively and that is usually driven by confidence. He needs to developp chemistry with a good winger and it will carry on IMO. He has all the tools to succeed. Vanek could be the solution.

The only change I'd make to this lineup would be putting Gally on top line with Pac and DD (I know Gally or Pac would need to switch side) and put Vanek with Eller / Gallagher, try to jump start them (Vanek is an excellent playmaker / all around offensively, needs hard workers to get the puck to him if he's not scoring off the rush). Gallagher needs to get going too, scored a goal last game but he's not as visible as he has been. Vanek would definitely put them up a notch, he has created a lot of scoring chances since he's in Mtl.

Then, put Plekanec on pure shutdown role. He's much more efficient that way, and he'll still put up a 40-50 points pace. Reform the Gionta - Plek - Bournival trio, lots of speed and defense, will be good VS TB.

Brière is the secret weapon that you put out when the oponent's fourth line is out, play him 12 mins a night max. Otherwise he becomes a liability. You could put him at the point on the 2np PP wave too.

Top 9 :

Pac - DD - Galchenyuk
Vanek - Eller - Gallagher
Bournival - Plekanec - Gionta


Thoughts ? Would that give Eller some spark to wake him up and get him some confidence ?
The debate is turning into pointless rethoric at this point.



REALLY!? At this point? You're obviously a very patient person to recognize this only now

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04-04-2014, 11:38 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
The problem with DD isn't his size, it's the fact that he is easily neutralized due to his size. If he were bigger and still neutralized with relative ease, that would be a massive problem. There are other areas in his game that people have a problem with that have nothing to do with size.

I don't see anyone crying about Gallagher or Gionta's lack of size. No one talks about Weaver's size.
I hear people talk about gointa's slack of size all the time actually.

I don't think DD is easily neutralized due to his size. I don't think he's easily neutralized at all actually. In fact DDs numbers against big teams we worry about are actually above his career average. DD isn't a physical player but regardless for someone who gets "pushed around" like some suggest he's never injured, he's nearly an ironman for us.

If there's something stopping DD from being a 70-75 point center like his recent pace suggests it's talent not size. He's a good hockey player with good talent but even if he were 6'4 220 I don't believe he'd be a star.

His defensive game isn't as bad as people suggest but it's not good either, it's basically acceptable. We just have better defensive centers(hence their usage). We see it when he's up vs crosbys line or he's facing top line 4 on 4 in OT. If a player sucks defensively or wtv 4 on 4 vs legit skill would be panic and mayhem but he was often the hero.

DD has his flaws and to be fair my post is describing why he isn't as neutralized as people claim. In reality we can easily bring up other sides of the coin to describe what he's missing as well. It's just important to note it's not as doom and gloom as many suggest. Guy has the effort, drives to the net and although he's shorter he plays bigger than guys who get less hate despite bring bigger.

Like I said I think size on wings is more important anyway but any size helps but let's not oversell it. If you're arguing DD would be neutralized regardless I just don't agree. He had a brutal 19 game stretch and an awesome 55 game stretch. The truth is in the middle.

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04-04-2014, 11:40 AM
  #737
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Grow DD Grow !
By reading some posters here -- actually the same post, just with words in different order -- I doubt DD will GROW…. on them….

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04-04-2014, 11:43 AM
  #738
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I hear people talk about gointa's slack of size all the time actually.

I don't think DD is easily neutralized due to his size. I don't think he's easily neutralized at all actually. In fact DDs numbers against big teams we worry about are actually above his career average. DD isn't a physical player but regardless for someone who gets "pushed around" like some suggest he's never injured, he's nearly an ironman for us.

If there's something stopping DD from being a 70-75 point center like his recent pace suggests it's talent not size. He's a good hockey player with good talent but even if he were 6'4 220 I don't believe he'd be a star.

His defensive game isn't as bad as people suggest but it's not good either, it's basically acceptable. We just have better defensive centers(hence their usage). We see it when he's up vs crosbys line or he's facing top line 4 on 4 in OT. If a player sucks defensively or wtv 4 on 4 vs legit skill would be panic and mayhem but he was often the hero.

DD has his flaws and to be fair my post is describing why he isn't as neutralized as people claim. In reality we can easily bring up other sides of the coin to describe what he's missing as well. It's just important to note it's not as doom and gloom as many suggest. Guy has the effort, drives to the net and although he's shorter he plays bigger than guys who get less hate despite bring bigger.

Like I said I think size on wings is more important anyway but any size helps but let's not oversell it. If you're arguing DD would be neutralized regardless I just don't agree. He had a brutal 19 game stretch and an awesome 55 game stretch. The truth is in the middle.
Indeed, the rhetoric is too polarized. However, it's also natural when you have to argue the doomsday scenario presented that Desharnais is so bad he likely should still be in the ECHL!

Obviously, I'm only paraphrasing, for those who will argue they never said that

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04-04-2014, 11:47 AM
  #739
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I keep returning to this thread just to read posters reaching for anvils as buoys while they are sinking.

The only problem is that, by now, they should have already sunk, instead of reaching for the same anvil, over and over again.

Obviously, the context doesn't show us that they are standing in a kiddie pool and aren't really going to sink, although the puerile nature of the arguments should have hinted at that…..

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04-04-2014, 12:30 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by Crimson Skorpion View Post
Well my issue is, you need a capable line of shutting down the opponent's top line.
Which Habs line currently fits this criteria?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Skorpion View Post
Plekanec does a fine job with Gionta on his wing. Yes, you sacrifice his production but you're trading that off for solid defensive work. Moen is a horse on the PK, so would a Moen-Plekanec-Gionta line work out? I'd be in favor of it.
Plekanec doesn't play with Gionta anymore though, and as you yourself have pointed out:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Skorpion View Post
In the last ten, they are 8-2-0.
So over that great stretch, which line has filled this critical component you keep referring to? Is it DD's line? Is it the Pleks-Gally-Chucky line? Briere's line? The 4th line?

Secondly, is Plekanec our best Center in your opinion? If he is, can you point out any other team that uses it's best Center as shutdown 3rd line player? This is the issue many people have with the pro-DD camp, Plekanec is supposedly our best Center, but many have no problem making him a defensive specialist simply to accommodate DD.

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Originally Posted by Crimson Skorpion View Post
The problem with sticking Plecky between the two Gallys is that you are now expecting two youngsters to aid Plekanec in shutting people down. That may or may not work out but at the same time you are going against your own argument of the Gallys regression offensively.
They're already there, and has the sky fallen? I thought we were "8-2 in the last 10"? Maybe Galchenyuk isn't as bad defensively as people think? And they've regressed because they've been used for the most part as 3rd line grinding wingers with continually reduced PP time (Galchenyuk) or a garbage man for the Patches-DD duo (Gallagher).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Skorpion View Post
They won't put up big numbers when they are depended on to shut down other top lines.
Exactly. And right there is the opportunity cost of having DD as your #1C.

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04-04-2014, 12:31 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
Perhaps you should consult your CEGEP textbooks, specifically the ones for English and Geography. English will help you understand that:

..."it's already working with Desharnais" is actually a different argument than:

..."he complements our two best goal scorers awesomely". Here's a hint: one implies a relationship, one doesn't.
There are absolutely no negations between these two arguments. The second statement is stronger than the first. The first sentence actually supports the second statement as proof.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse
Please provide your evidence that Desharnais is not merely the beneficiary of almost always playing with our teams' best scorers. You should also address the evidence posted by thebinnes4pres about how Desharnais has been woefully ineffective when paired with other wingers. Finally, take note that I said "ineffective" not "less effective".
Why should I disprove that statement?

Desharnais does benefits from playing with the team's best scorer. He's a pass first playmaking center, he rarely scores goals himself but he creates plays for his wingers so they can shoot more often. The best Habs scorers certainly benefit from playing with Desharnais however, and thats what's important.

Its simply more efficient to play Desharnais with the best goal scorer in a pure offense role and use Plekanec and Eller in two-way roles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
Secondly, CEGEP Geography textbooks will help you locate New York City, which should help you figure out that as an American, the probability that I attended CEGEP probably isn't that great.
Cegep geography textbooks can't tell me if you've lived in NY all your life or recently moved there. If you want, you can equate ''Cegep'' to ''college''.

Btw my geography is fine (to say the least) and you don't have to insult my intelligence. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything discussed here unlike the nature of your arguments. Wouldn't that be ''ad hominem''?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse
Gotta love that you use sample size to "prove" the effectiveness of DD-Patches, but immediately throw it out in order to include Vanek and Cole. CEGEP have summer courses up there?
A sample size of perhaps around 200 games (in NHL and AHL) proves Desharnais and Pacioretty works. Desharnais, Cole and Pacioretty was a dominant line over a full season, thats a sufficiant sample. So far Vanek has worked the best with us playing with Desharnais and Pacioretty, not so big sample size obviously, but since the playoffs are starting soon its the best we got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse
So you'd be happy next season with the same stats from Galchenyuk, Gallagher, and Eller as this season? I mean, the teams' record in the last 10 is apparently indicative of great development, right?
Nice strawman. And false dilemna, too! And I didn't even need to dust off my philosophy textbooks!

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04-04-2014, 12:32 PM
  #742
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Lars Eller, great two way center, is currently ranked 244 (out of 250) of all NHL centers in +/- with his stellar -18 rating. (Desharnais is tied for 34th in the league at +8)

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...plusMinus&pg=9

This comes on a team which is ranked 12th (out of 30) in goals differential.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm...ntial&type=LEA

Lars is tied for 104th among centers in scoring with his 23 points. (DD tied for 29th).

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...rt=points&pg=4

I think that any coach in his right mind should change the Habs lines in order to get this monster of a player in gear!!

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04-04-2014, 12:38 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
If he did we wouldn't have these threads

As someone who is 6'4 I'm not particularly concerned with his size. I think it can be overrated in regards to on ice performance.

I think big wingers is a better playoff success indicator than big centers.

Both help though.
Yes I've noticed we disagree there.

I do fear DD's extreme lack of size will fail him, there are so many things a player that small just can't do in a physical game, opposition will exploit those weaknesses.

I guess I can agree that size has a greater impact on the wing (and defence). I think in the league C is the position where average player size is smallest. But there are limits, and anyway we often have four or five other little guys in the lineup so the problem runs deeper than dd.

Aside from "history," it is the Habs "size" that primarily defines our identity these days. You constantly hear this if you listen to opposing team's commentators. I'm pretty sure there's never been a smaller team going into the NHL playoffs it will be amazing if we somehow overcome it.

GHG!

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04-04-2014, 12:41 PM
  #744
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Cyclones, I don't think we need to attack Eller to prove a point. He is after all the team's 3rd line center, he gets defensive assigments.

Lets put it this way :

Desharnais is a better top6 center than Eller, Eller is a better bottom 6 center than Desharnais. As a result it makes no sense whatsoever to flip them from a team perspective.

Desharnais playing Eller's role would have an horrible +/- but Eller playing Desharnais' role wouldn't have nearly as many points and Pacioretty wouldn't have as many goals (I doubt he gets 250shots playing with Eller). Eller fans would be happy but the team would have a worse record.

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04-04-2014, 12:44 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Lars Eller, great two way center, is currently ranked 244 (out of 250) of all NHL centers in +/- with his stellar -18 rating. (Desharnais is tied for 34th in the league at +8)

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...plusMinus&pg=9

This comes on a team which is ranked 12th (out of 30) in goals differential.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm...ntial&type=LEA

Lars is tied for 104th among centers in scoring with his 23 points. (DD tied for 29th).

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...rt=points&pg=4

I think that any coach in his right mind should change the Habs lines in order to get this monster of a player in gear!!
This is the DD thread. Don't come here with completely irrelevant stats about Eller. Kindly GTFO.

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04-04-2014, 12:59 PM
  #746
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You either missed or are intentionally avoiding the point.

The poster I replied to said that nobody has earned the spot that DD has. I pointed out that Eller had earned it but still didn't get it. So it doesn't matter if Eller puts up 4 points or 40 points, Therrien has already shown that nothing Eller does is good enough to take DD's spot away.

If hypothetically Eller had 30 pts this year instead of 4. Who here thinks he'd have replaced DD as the #1 offensive line?
WHY DOES ELLER HAVE TO BE ON THE FIRST LINE? WHY OH GOD WHY!!!

Ahem.

The reality is, he's played like crap. If he had played great (like last year) on a third line, then why move him to the first line and break his own successful combination?

And if say the EGG line is reunited and they do really well together, even better than Pac-Des-Van, just call THEM the first line and be done with it!

It would make a lot of people here very happy apparently.

If you have to have two snipers such as Pacs and Vanek on the same line, you better have a pretty good passer along with them. Guess who?

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04-04-2014, 01:10 PM
  #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Lars Eller, great two way center, is currently ranked 244 (out of 250) of all NHL centers in +/- with his stellar -18 rating. (Desharnais is tied for 34th in the league at +8)

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...plusMinus&pg=9

This comes on a team which is ranked 12th (out of 30) in goals differential.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm...ntial&type=LEA

Lars is tied for 104th among centers in scoring with his 23 points. (DD tied for 29th).

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...rt=points&pg=4

I think that any coach in his right mind should change the Habs lines in order to get this monster of a player in gear!!
Wow, who'd have guessed that the number 1 centre who sometimes plays 5 minutes on the PP in a game would have more points than the 3rd line center?

Thanks for these stats dude. You should consider writing a thesis paper on this incredible theory. I wonder if Kopitar somehow managed to get more points than Jarret Stoll?

Great stuff

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04-04-2014, 01:23 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I hear people talk about gointa's slack of size all the time actually.
Not really. Gionta brings a lot to the table and has been able to suceed in a way DD never has (and most likely never will) despite his size.


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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I don't think DD is easily neutralized due to his size. I don't think he's easily neutralized at all actually. In fact DDs numbers against big teams we worry about are actually above his career average. DD isn't a physical player but regardless for someone who gets "pushed around" like some suggest he's never injured, he's nearly an ironman for us.
I guess you don't watch the games including the playoffs last year. What on earth does injury have to do with being physically neutralized?

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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
If there's something stopping DD from being a 70-75 point center like his recent pace suggests it's talent not size. He's a good hockey player with good talent but even if he were 6'4 220 I don't believe he'd be a star.
Size and physicality is a dynamic that does not seem to get any attention on this board. If DD was bigger and stronger he wouldn't be more talented, but he may be more effective.

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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
His defensive game isn't as bad as people suggest but it's not good either, it's basically acceptable. We just have better defensive centers(hence their usage). We see it when he's up vs crosbys line or he's facing top line 4 on 4 in OT. If a player sucks defensively or wtv 4 on 4 vs legit skill would be panic and mayhem but he was often the hero.
It's poor. It may be acceptable to you, but it's poor. We see it when he's up against anyone. Not a big deal since there are other Habs players who are poor in their own zone...especially in the dirty areas.

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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
DD has his flaws and to be fair my post is describing why he isn't as neutralized as people claim. In reality we can easily bring up other sides of the coin to describe what he's missing as well. It's just important to note it's not as doom and gloom as many suggest. Guy has the effort, drives to the net and although he's shorter he plays bigger than guys who get less hate despite bring bigger.
It is pretty doom and gloom when the team revolves around him. It's pretty doom and gloom when more gifted centermen are playing on the 3rd and 4th lines to benefit him. If the Habs lose in the 1st round and DD is a no-show again...yea, it will be doom and gloom. Pacioretty has to show up and so do Markov and a few other players. But DD especially needs to show up.

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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Like I said I think size on wings is more important anyway but any size helps but let's not oversell it. If you're arguing DD would be neutralized regardless I just don't agree. He had a brutal 19 game stretch and an awesome 55 game stretch. The truth is in the middle.
The truth is without Max, there is no DD. The proof is in the pudding. If we're going to treat DD and Max like the Sedins, then please lets move them both. That strategy never works.

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Old
04-04-2014, 01:27 PM
  #749
Monctonscout
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The problem with DD isn't his size, it's the fact that he is easily neutralized due to his size. If he were bigger and still neutralized with relative ease, that would be a massive problem. There are other areas in his game that people have a problem with that have nothing to do with size.

I don't see anyone crying about Gallagher or Gionta's lack of size. No one talks about Weaver's size.
If he is THAT easy to neutralize why is he producing points at an all-star pace the last 4+ months.

Are you saying NHL players, the best in the world, and the best coaches in the world can't manage something you consider "easy"?

Eller is 6'2" why is he SO easy to neutralize(3-3-6 the last 46 games)? You'd think that size and skill would be impossible to stop?

People on here DO always complain about the size of players, ALL OF THEM, it gets brought up pretty much daily...where have you been the last 5 years?

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04-04-2014, 01:44 PM
  #750
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Cyclones, I don't think we need to attack Eller to prove a point. He is after all the team's 3rd line center, he gets defensive assigments.

Lets put it this way :

Desharnais is a better top6 center than Eller, Eller is a better bottom 6 center than Desharnais. As a result it makes no sense whatsoever to flip them from a team perspective.

Desharnais playing Eller's role would have an horrible +/- but Eller playing Desharnais' role wouldn't have nearly as many points and Pacioretty wouldn't have as many goals (I doubt he gets 250shots playing with Eller). Eller fans would be happy but the team would have a worse record.
What about Eller's role is so hard that Desharnais woulds have a bad +-?

Plekanec plays against top lines, Eller is usually matched against 2nd or 3rd lines. If Desharnais can survive playing against guys like Bergeron and Chara most nights, how would his +- suddenly be terrible playing against worse players?

This myth that Eller has a bad +- because he plays such tough minutes and his wingers are so bad is something that is false and perpetuated on here. His minutes are no tougher than other 3rd lines around the NHL.

The truth is, other teams try and stop Desharnais' line and the habs use Plekanec's line against other team's best...so how does that make Eller's job so hard?

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