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Ehrhoff (50% retained)

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Old
04-04-2014, 03:50 PM
  #76
etherialone
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Muzzin
1st in 15
and Zykov?

I have a bunch of respect for your Rorschach but it's just too much of an overpayment and one that Buffalo wouldn't likely make due to their ridiculously deep and talented D prospect pool. They are in a rebuild and would be better served bringing up one of their own D prospects and giving them the ice time. I was Muzzins only champion or close to it on the boards and while I see him having solid value to us and that there would be plenty of teams interested in him if we wanted to move him I just think that the circumstances in Buffalo would make picking up Muzzin unnecessary.

The Kings wouldn't move Z as he is one of only two elite potential O that we have in our system (Porkins being the other). I wouldn't move him as part of a CE deal regardless all things considered due to team needs for both. We could move our 15 1st but that would have to be the centerpiece of any deal for CE from the way I see things.

We could offer up one of our talented young C's like Shore or Vey, both of whom are going to be very good NHLers with Vey already on the Kings and Shore knocking at the door. We also have Andy Andy who is a very solid 3rd line who has size skill and plays all 3 positions and he will be knocking on the door next season.

I guess my point is that I believe Buffalo has an exceptionally deep prospect pool on D so no reason for them to take Muzzin back at this point in their rebuild and we would be making a mistake in moving him as he is a solid part of our win now team.

I think that Buffalo could find a better dance partner where Ehrhoff is concerned.

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Old
04-04-2014, 04:00 PM
  #77
Lolonegoal
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To Buffalo

Smith
Jurco
2015 1st

To Detroit

Erhoff (50% retained)
2014 2nd

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Old
04-04-2014, 04:45 PM
  #78
tsujimoto74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolonegoal View Post
To Buffalo

Smith
Jurco
2015 1st

To Detroit

Erhoff (50% retained)
2014 2nd
Smith isn't any kind of appealing. And Buffalo isn't giving away good picks to move a #2-3 defenseman that the receiving team would be paying bottom pairing money to while we retain 1/2 of his salary.

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Old
04-04-2014, 04:59 PM
  #79
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The time to trade Erhoff isn't now

The Sabres are entering full rebuild mode so let the kids play for a season and then bring in the veteran leadership once you have a better idea of how things are going and once needs have been established

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Old
04-04-2014, 05:32 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Smith isn't any kind of appealing. And Buffalo isn't giving away good picks to move a #2-3 defenseman that the receiving team would be paying bottom pairing money to while we retain 1/2 of his salary.
Yeah i'd prefer the pick from our end and Smith just be removed from the equation. Jurco and a 2015 1st rounder for Ehrhoff @ 50%.

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Old
04-04-2014, 05:37 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Better pieces than that, for starters.
Good suggestion.

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Old
04-04-2014, 07:38 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
Huge value for the acquiring team too, since they get 8 years of a reliable PMD at $2M (comparable to the amount of time you control a drafted player).
Ehrhoff would only count for $2M against the cap then too, right?

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Old
04-04-2014, 07:56 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Ehrhoff would only count for $2M against the cap then too, right?
$2m would be his cap hit. His actual salary with 50% retained by the Sabres would be .5m-2m depending on the year.

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Old
04-04-2014, 08:28 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolonegoal View Post
To Buffalo

Smith
Jurco
2015 1st

To Detroit

Erhoff (50% retained)
2014 2nd
The difference between your 2015 1st and our 2nd rounder this year which is already guaranteed to be the 31st pick will be 10 or less spots.And Smith and Jurco aren't even close to Ehrhoff.Drop our 2nd and it becomes a little better,still not enough though.

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Old
04-05-2014, 12:48 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
$2m would be his cap hit. His actual salary with 50% retained by the Sabres would be .5m-2m depending on the year.
I would love to add him to the Stars if he's available. With 50% retained that is really tempting. I'm not sure what it would take from us but I think there might be something there.

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Old
04-05-2014, 12:01 PM
  #86
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Was thinking about something a little different. Not sure it's even within the rules and will sound a little crazy. Please don't flame me to hard I was bored.

To Detroit:

Ehrhoff @ 50 % retained
Grigorenko

To Buffalo

Pulkkinen
1st 14
1st 15
3rd 14 - 20 - conditional on minutes played

The thought I had and the twist that I'm not sure is allowed would be the 3rd round pick is conditional for the life of Ehrhoff's contract. The condition would be that he plays a top 4 role for Detroit. Meaning he is within the top four guys on defense in ice time each year. Every year he plays top 4 minutes Buffalo would receive Detroit's 3rd round pick.

Deal could look like:
Pulkkinen
1st 14 + 3rd 14
1st 15 + 3rd 15
3rd 16
3rd 17
3rd 18
3rd 19
3rd 20

The thought on Grigorenko and Pulkkinen + the additional 1st would be to get Detroit a top center prospect. Pulkkinen would be ready to step into the NHL next year for Buffalo and Grigorenko could definetly use Detroit's player development and cut his teeth in Grand Rappids.

The reasons for the conditional 3rd's would be for getting a top 4 Dman signed long term for 2 million. If Ehrhoff gets injured and doesn't play Detroit is covered by not paying the 3rd because he doesn't reach the top 4 minutes. Buffalo could end up getting 9 draft picks out of the deal plus their top scorer in the minors.

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Old
04-05-2014, 12:12 PM
  #87
tsujimoto74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
Was thinking about something a little different. Not sure it's even within the rules and will sound a little crazy. Please don't flame me to hard I was bored.

To Detroit:

Ehrhoff @ 50 % retained
Grigorenko

To Buffalo

Pulkkinen
1st 14
1st 15
3rd 14 - 20 - conditional on minutes played

The thought I had and the twist that I'm not sure is allowed would be the 3rd round pick is conditional for the life of Ehrhoff's contract. The condition would be that he plays a top 4 role for Detroit. Meaning he is within the top four guys on defense in ice time each year. Every year he plays top 4 minutes Buffalo would receive Detroit's 3rd round pick.

Deal could look like:
Pulkkinen
1st 14 + 3rd 14
1st 15 + 3rd 15
3rd 16
3rd 17
3rd 18
3rd 19
3rd 20

The thought on Grigorenko and Pulkkinen + the additional 1st would be to get Detroit a top center prospect. Pulkkinen would be ready to step into the NHL next year for Buffalo and Grigorenko could definetly use Detroit's player development and cut his teeth in Grand Rappids.

The reasons for the conditional 3rd's would be for getting a top 4 Dman signed long term for 2 million. If Ehrhoff gets injured and doesn't play Detroit is covered by not paying the 3rd because he doesn't reach the top 4 minutes. Buffalo could end up getting 9 draft picks out of the deal plus their top scorer in the minors.
Easy no from Buffalo. If you want out best F prospect alon with Ehrhoff at practically no actual cost, you're starting with something like Mantha or Tatar+. A couple middling to late 1sts isn't going to cut it.

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Old
04-05-2014, 12:20 PM
  #88
probertrules24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Easy no from Buffalo. If you want out best F prospect alon with Ehrhoff at practically no actual cost, you're starting with something like Mantha or Tatar+. A couple middling to late 1sts isn't going to cut it.
I can understand not wanting to give up Grigorenko but there is no chance that he has the same value of Mantha. As far as Tatar he has 19 goals in 68 games this year. No chance he has the same value of him let alone adding to him. If you are only taking in draft position and not actual play maybe.

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Old
04-05-2014, 12:22 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
I can understand not wanting to give up Grigorenko but there is no chance that he has the same value of Mantha. As far as Tatar he has 19 goals in 68 games this year. No chance he has the same value of him let alone adding to him. If you are only taking in draft position and not actual play maybe.
we aren't talking about Grigorenko straight up. We're talking Ehrhoff with salary retained AND grigorenko EASILY gets Mantha/Tatar+

EASILY.

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Old
04-05-2014, 12:31 PM
  #90
probertrules24
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Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
we aren't talking about Grigorenko straight up. We're talking Ehrhoff with salary retained AND grigorenko EASILY gets Mantha/Tatar+

EASILY.
Which I understand but then the draft picks are removed/changed. If that becomes the asking price Mantha/Tatar + for either I would pass from Detroit. I like Ehrhoff and Grigorenko but wouldn't want to move Mantha and Tatar for either. I would rather keep them and look at free agency for a top 4 dman.

edit: Grigorenko is not a deal breaker and I wouldn't have a problem dropping him from the proposal.


Last edited by probertrules24: 04-05-2014 at 12:37 PM.
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Old
04-05-2014, 12:34 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
Which I understand but then the draft picks are removed/changed. If that becomes the asking price Mantha/Tatar + for either I would pass from Detroit. I like Ehrhoff and Grigorenko but wouldn't want to move Mantha and Tatar for either. I would rather keep them and look at free agency for a top 4 dman
that's completely fair

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Old
04-05-2014, 01:28 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
Yeah i'd prefer the pick from our end and Smith just be removed from the equation. Jurco and a 2015 1st rounder for Ehrhoff @ 50%.
Except Smith's a 1st round pick so we're not just gonna remove him for a 2nd. Yeah our 1st rounder might not be much higher then you 2nd rounder, but you guys have what like 3 of those now? and you could choose between the lowest one you don't want, and its an upgrade, thats something a lot of teams do with picks. A 1st round pick value to a 2nd is incomparable. Even if its just 10 or so positions up.

From stats I just looked up a 1st rounder pick has approx. 2/3 chance of playing in the nhl
a 2nd has 1/4
a 3rd has 1/8
and so on

So a 1st has almost triple the value of a 2nd based on the potential of that player making, not to mention that particular player probably has the potential to be better. You guys have been stocking up on 2nd's you've dealt solid veteran players for, but that's because they were either not good enough to get a 1st, or it was a 1st + 2nd deal. you're still in the likelyhood of none of those picks turn into NHL caliber players. To say you don't want to give a 25% chance to move up to a 66% is pretty crazy.

So with that being said I'd either offer Smith and Jurco straight up for Erhoff or if you don't want to give away any of your picks Jurco and a 2nd, and maybe another conditional 2nd based on Erhoff's performance, on whether we make it to the 2nd round. Or make it that 2nd a conditional 1st if we make the conference finals.

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Old
04-05-2014, 01:45 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Lolonegoal View Post
Except Smith's a 1st round pick so we're not just gonna remove him for a 2nd. Yeah our 1st rounder might not be much higher then you 2nd rounder, but you guys have what like 3 of those now? and you could choose between the lowest one you don't want, and its an upgrade, thats something a lot of teams do with picks. A 1st round pick value to a 2nd is incomparable. Even if its just 10 or so positions up.

From stats I just looked up a 1st rounder pick has approx. 2/3 chance of playing in the nhl
a 2nd has 1/4
a 3rd has 1/8
and so on

So a 1st has almost triple the value of a 2nd based on the potential of that player making, not to mention that particular player probably has the potential to be better. You guys have been stocking up on 2nd's you've dealt solid veteran players for, but that's because they were either not good enough to get a 1st, or it was a 1st + 2nd deal. you're still in the likelyhood of none of those picks turn into NHL caliber players. To say you don't want to give a 25% chance to move up to a 66% is pretty crazy.

So with that being said I'd either offer Smith and Jurco straight up for Erhoff or if you don't want to give away any of your picks Jurco and a 2nd, and maybe another conditional 2nd based on Erhoff's performance, on whether we make it to the 2nd round. Or make it that 2nd a conditional 1st if we make the conference finals.
Buffalo would hang up laughing.

Jurco and a mid to late 2nd is nowhere near enough for Ehrhoff, nonetheless at 50%

Smith is also useless in buffalo. He'd be our 6th best young dman


Last edited by ZeroPT*: 04-05-2014 at 02:16 PM.
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Old
04-05-2014, 01:53 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Lolonegoal View Post
Except Smith's a 1st round pick so we're not just gonna remove him for a 2nd.
Where Smith has been drafted matters absolutely nothing. TBH I see really no differences between Smith and McBain - and Buffalo certainly doesn't need anymore of mcbains.

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04-05-2014, 02:45 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Better pieces than that, for starters.
Keep him, not a big fan at all, esp. when sabre fans think they are getting a ton for him

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04-05-2014, 02:57 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolonegoal View Post
To Buffalo

Smith
Jurco
2015 1st

To Detroit

Erhoff (50% retained)
2014 2nd
Dont bother bringing the wings up here, buffalo fans seem to think he is worth nyquist and more.

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Old
04-05-2014, 03:06 PM
  #97
is the answer jesus
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Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
Buffalo would hang up laughing.

Jurco and a mid to late 2nd is nowhere near enough for Ehrhoff, nonetheless at 50%

Smith is also useless in buffalo. He'd be our 6th best young dman
Yeah I agree. I actually thought most sabres fans wouldn't like Jurco and what is likely a mid to late first for Ehrhoff at 50%. I don't really get the posters point either. We were the one's with the second round pick in the deal and they had the former 1st rounder pick in Smith. If he's more valuable than a second round pick, then taking Smith and the 2nd round pick out of the deal should favor Detroit.

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Old
04-05-2014, 03:07 PM
  #98
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Dont bother bringing the wings up here, buffalo fans seem to think he is worth nyquist and more.
Or Jurco and a 1st round pick, like I proposed. I didn't see anyone ask for Nyqvist in this thread...

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04-05-2014, 03:54 PM
  #99
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Dont bother bringing the wings up here, buffalo fans seem to think he is worth nyquist and more.
what?

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Old
04-05-2014, 04:35 PM
  #100
fetalposition
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what?
the last erhoff to detroit thread, thats what turned me off trading for him, what sabre fans were asking, for that matter i dont trade jurco and a first for him. buffalo should keep him so they can atleast hit the cap floor. buffalo seems more interested in a edmonton rebuild than a calgary one.

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