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David Desharnais Discussions - Part III - Montreal's Masterton nominee

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Old
04-04-2014, 11:23 PM
  #776
Scriptor
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Why even argue? If the line does well, Desharnais is just riding the coat-tails of Pacioretty and Vanek who are doing everything by themselves and, if the line doesn't perform on any given night, it's obviously because Desharnais is holding back both Vanek and Pacioretty!

It's quite quaint and convenient, isn't it. If the line does well, it's because the wingers don't need Desharnais and would produce as much or more with a trained chimp as their C.

If the line doesn't do well, Desharnais is at fault.

On the nights they do so well, are we supposed to believe Vanek and Pacioretty have managed to dig in real deep to muster the energy to overcome the horrendous handicap that playing with Desharnais must be?

The pass to Pacioretty for his third goal was obviously a fluke. In fact, Pacioretty would've probably scored if he had shot from behind his own net on that one….

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04-04-2014, 11:25 PM
  #777
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Davey with some slick SLICK passing again.

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04-04-2014, 11:26 PM
  #778
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Kudos to the line of Vanek, Desharnais,Pacioretty tonight…

What should we call that line? VD Power!?

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04-04-2014, 11:26 PM
  #779
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VD Pac?

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04-04-2014, 11:34 PM
  #780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scriptor View Post
Kudos to the line of Vanek, Desharnais,Pacioretty tonight…

What should we call that line? VD Power!?
As much as I like DD, the PANEK line sounds awesome.

DaPANEK?

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04-04-2014, 11:35 PM
  #781
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VD Pac?
I guess the phrase VD doesn't have the same impact these days, as when I was a kid in the 70's and 80's?

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04-04-2014, 11:54 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by Scriptor View Post
Why even argue? If the line does well, Desharnais is just riding the coat-tails of Pacioretty and Vanek who are doing everything by themselves and, if the line doesn't perform on any given night, it's obviously because Desharnais is holding back both Vanek and Pacioretty!

It's quite quaint and convenient, isn't it. If the line does well, it's because the wingers don't need Desharnais and would produce as much or more with a trained chimp as their C.

If the line doesn't do well, Desharnais is at fault.

On the nights they do so well, are we supposed to believe Vanek and Pacioretty have managed to dig in real deep to muster the energy to overcome the horrendous handicap that playing with Desharnais must be?

The pass to Pacioretty for his third goal was obviously a fluke. In fact, Pacioretty would've probably scored if he had shot from behind his own net on that one….
Well games like tonight are one of the reasons he's viewed as riding the coat-tails of his linemates. His line has 10 pts which is great but he's the one with the fewest points. Pacioretty scores a hattrick but Mike Weaver assisted on just as many Pacioretty goals as DD did. And in the 15s or so Plekanec and Pacioretty were on the ice together they combine for a goal.

Most centers lead their line in points, yet DD has never done this, in fact he's usually the one with the fewest points. A center having the fewest points on his line when he's supposed to be this amazing playmaker is cause for questions.

I wouldn't go as far as saying he's holding them back because he's not turning over the puck constantly but he's certainly not the driving force behind his line's success and that's a big reason why people think other players would have just as much success if they had DD's role/opportunity.

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04-05-2014, 12:18 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post

I wouldn't go as far as saying he's holding them back because he's not turning over the puck constantly but he's certainly not the driving force behind his line's success and that's a big reason why people think other players would have just as much success if they had DD's role/opportunity.
People who make this argument are failing to take into account the role of chemistry. Some lines don't have a lone "driving force". Some lines become more than the sum of their parts based on their chemistry together.

The Lindros-Renberg-LeClair "Legion of Doom" line in the mid-to-late 90s is a good example of that. Each and every one of those guys was better together than they were apart, because they did a great job of complimenting one another. Lindros was clearly the best player on that line, but his numbers dipped slightly the first year after Renberg was traded to Tamba, while Lindros and LeClair both declined considerably after Lindros left Philly.

The DD-Patches-Vanek line may not be as menacing as the Legion of Doom was, but I think they may well be a similar case of excellent chemistry in action. I think Patches is a guy who plays his best and produces his best when he has a consistently pass-first playmaker centering him - And that simply doesn't describe either Eller or Pleks right now. Vanek alternates a fair bit between shooting and passing, so he makes an excellent final piece on the DD-Patches line as he gives an excellent "2nd option" for both DD and Patches (in DD's case, a 2nd option to pass to; in Patches case, a 2nd option to receive a pass from).

DD isn't a superstar playmaker, but he's the best this team has right now (given what Pleks and Eller's games are like currently, and given that Chucky still has a lot of development to do).

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04-05-2014, 12:20 AM
  #784
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Lindros declined because of the massive brain traumas he suffered.

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04-05-2014, 12:24 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
People who make this argument are failing to take into account the role of chemistry. Some lines don't have a lone "driving force". Some lines become more than the sum of their parts based on their chemistry together.

The Lindros-Renberg-LeClair "Legion of Doom" line in the mid-to-late 90s is a good example of that. Each and every one of those guys was better together than they were apart, because they did a great job of complimenting one another. Lindros was clearly the best player on that line, but his numbers dipped slightly the first year after Renberg was traded to Tamba, while Lindros and LeClair both declined considerably after Lindros left Philly.

The DD-Patches-Vanek line may not be as menacing as the Legion of Doom was, but I think they may well be a similar case of excellent chemistry in action. I think Patches is a guy who plays his best and produces his best when he has a consistently pass-first playmaker centering him - And that simply doesn't describe either Eller or Pleks right now. Vanek alternates a fair bit between shooting and passing, so he makes an excellent final piece on the DD-Patches line as he gives an excellent "2nd option" for both DD and Patches (in DD's case, a 2nd option to pass two; in Patches case, a 2nd option to receive a pass from).

DD isn't a superstar playmaker, but he's the best this team has right now (given what Pleks and Eller's games are like currently, and given that Chucky still has a lot of development to do).
The funny thing is DD got on the scoreboard when the game was out of hand. DD registered a point when the score was 5-3 and Ottawa bailed out of the game. He was nowhere to be seen when the game was "playoff-like" and he had no space to operate. Lost a faceoff cleanly that led to a goal as well. But you look at the scoresheet and he got 2 points so he's the man!

Just hoping he can find a way to be productive when the games play out like the first 2 periods of tonight's game and DD has no space to operate.

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04-05-2014, 12:32 AM
  #786
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
The funny thing is DD got on the scoreboard when the game was out of hand.
A 2-goal lead isn't "out of hand". Plenty of 2 goal leads evaporate. Us Habs fans of all people should know that.


Quote:
DD registered a point when the score was 5-3 and Ottawa bailed out of the game.
Ottawa didn't bail out of the game. Their shot totals make that abundantly clear. The game was playoff-like almost the entire game. It was only with something like 3 minutes left that you could tell that Ottawa was finally resigning itself to defeat.


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But you look at the scoresheet and he got 2 points so he's the man!
Where did I say "he's the man!"? What I see is people who consistently put the most negative spin even remotely possible on his gameplay and his production.


Quote:
Just hoping he can find a way to be productive when the games play out like the first 2 periods of tonight's game and DD has no space to operate.
Do you really hope that? Really, sincerely? Because judging by how you're constantly down on DD and seem to get upset over his success...

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04-05-2014, 12:32 AM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
The funny thing is DD got on the scoreboard when the game was out of hand. DD registered a point when the score was 5-3 and Ottawa bailed out of the game. He was nowhere to be seen when the game was "playoff-like" and he had no space to operate. Lost a faceoff cleanly that led to a goal as well. But you look at the scoresheet and he got 2 points so he's the man!

Just hoping he can find a way to be productive when the games play out like the first 2 periods of tonight's game and DD has no space to operate.
I don't get in this thread often but it seems you have something personal against him...

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04-05-2014, 12:36 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
The funny thing is DD got on the scoreboard when the game was out of hand. DD registered a point when the score was 5-3 and Ottawa bailed out of the game. He was nowhere to be seen when the game was "playoff-like" and he had no space to operate. Lost a faceoff cleanly that led to a goal as well. But you look at the scoresheet and he got 2 points so he's the man!

Just hoping he can find a way to be productive when the games play out like the first 2 periods of tonight's game and DD has no space to operate.
As far as I can remember, he has several game winning or game tying goals...so I think it would be safe to say that DD can produce when the game is on the line.

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04-05-2014, 02:18 AM
  #789
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As far as I can remember, he has several game winning or game tying goals...so I think it would be safe to say that DD can produce when the game is on the line.
CHfan and PepperMonkey, you're both absolutely right but, unfortunately, that doesn't really matter with four or five posters on this thread. Anything good about Desharnais is collateral damage, at best, for them, easily explained away by some obscure formula they will concoct and spend countless posts trying to convince you of it's validity

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04-05-2014, 03:20 AM
  #790
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I'm sure this will surprised no one since this thread is about DD, but in his last 31 games Desharnais has 30 pts.

That's a very long time to remain a point per game in todays league.

By comparison only 12 of the Top 30 in league scoring have a points per game of 1.00 or higher.

I know a lot of DD's success has to do with Pacioretty (Subban) and in more recent weeks the addition of Vanek., BUT 31 games is a pretty good sample size to suggest that if the Habs continue into 2014-15 with a high octane offense DD has the opportunity to go 19-51-70 next year.

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04-05-2014, 04:18 AM
  #791
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As far as I can remember, he has several game winning or game tying goals...so I think it would be safe to say that DD can produce when the game is on the line.
that, we'll see come PO time.

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04-05-2014, 06:42 AM
  #792
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dd clowned anderson on his goal

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04-05-2014, 06:44 AM
  #793
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gorgeous pass on Patches' goal.

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04-05-2014, 06:50 AM
  #794
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Well, well....we love that line don't we?
Points, points, points, points......

But i'll keep saying what i've been sayng from day one: Dangerous at both ends.

Hope we'll see many goalie in the PO as Anderson.
Or many like Giguere when we faced Colorado....that line look awesome that night
Or mayby teams like Florida witouth Luongo....that line was dominating.

But last night.....on the ice for 2 of the 3 first goals......also on the ice for "the good" disallow goal.

But who cares....let's just hope that line won't be invisible as they did against Tampa and Boston in our last games against them.....

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04-05-2014, 06:56 AM
  #795
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Well, well....we love that line don't we?
Points, points, points, points......

But i'll keep saying what i've been sayng from day one: Dangerous at both ends.

Hope we'll see many goalie in the PO as Anderson.
Or many like Giguere when we faced Colorado....that line look awesome that night
Or mayby teams like Florida witouth Luongo....that line was dominating.

But last night.....on the ice for 2 of the 3 first goals......also on the ice for "the good" disallow goal.

But who cares....let's just hope that line won't be invisible as they did against Tampa and Boston in our last games against them.....
None of that matters!!!

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04-05-2014, 06:57 AM
  #796
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
As far as I can remember, he has several game winning or game tying goals...so I think it would be safe to say that DD can produce when the game is on the line.
I was talking about this game.

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04-05-2014, 07:02 AM
  #797
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
A 2-goal lead isn't "out of hand". Plenty of 2 goal leads evaporate. Us Habs fans of all people should know that.




Ottawa didn't bail out of the game. Their shot totals make that abundantly clear. The game was playoff-like almost the entire game. It was only with something like 3 minutes left that you could tell that Ottawa was finally resigning itself to defeat.




Where did I say "he's the man!"? What I see is people who consistently put the most negative spin even remotely possible on his gameplay and his production.




Do you really hope that? Really, sincerely? Because judging by how you're constantly down on DD and seem to get upset over his success...
Not at all. I just think a lot of people look at the score sheet and only that. Too bad we don't play Ottawa in the playoffs.

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04-05-2014, 07:08 AM
  #798
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What a polarizing figure.

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04-05-2014, 07:09 AM
  #799
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DD passed 50 pts. Good season for him.

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04-05-2014, 07:13 AM
  #800
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I have to wonder... If Desharnais should ever win the trophy then will the NHL have to present him with a Desharnais-sized trophy..?


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