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Should try, I mean really try to convert Eller to winger

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Old
03-28-2014, 10:32 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I've got news for you: it might go well for him next year.

Who knows? You say no, I say yes. Only time will tell really.

Any twit with a set of eyes can see that Eller has struggled. Not calling you a twit, just saying, it's a very easy observation to make. But you do want to get to the root of a problem in order to fix it right? So you need to ask questions as to what went wrong with Eller, and I'm sure there's a bunch of factors that contribute to his level of play.
Yeah, no offense taken, seriously. I do enjoy these discussions.

I'm just saying: Eller was way below what anybody predicted for this year. And the guy is 25 years old. We shouldn't expect anything for next year, IMO.

If I'm Bergevin and somebody offers me a top 6 winger for Eller, I take that deal 11 times out of 10. But I seriously doubt that such a deal in on the table at the moment.

If you follow GMs and all, it's clear that they don't fall in love easily. Realy not sure about Eller's value right now. My guess is that he would fetch, at best, a 2nd rounder at the draft.


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Old
03-28-2014, 10:49 PM
  #102
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Yeah, no offense taken, seriously. I do enjoy these discussions.

I'm just saying: Eller was way below what anybody predicted for this year. And the guy is 25 years old. We shouldn't expect anything for next year, IMO.

If I'm Bergevin and somebody offers me a top 6 winger for Eller, I take that deal 11 times out of 10. But I seriously doubt that such a deal in on the table at the moment.

If you follow GMs and all, it's clear that they don't fall in love easily. Realy not sure about Eller's value right now. My guess is that he would fetch, at best, a 2nd rounder at the draft.
There's no point in trading Eller considering his trade value is really low right now. I wouldn't even entertain the though of trading him for a second round pick this year, but a first round pick might be interesting. I would sign Eller for a 1 year contract and let him prove his worth. It worked well with Plekanec after he really struggled in the 08-09 season.

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03-28-2014, 11:10 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I'm going to give you some time to think about what you just typed.
Yeah, didn't think you'd have a response worth reading.

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03-28-2014, 11:18 PM
  #104
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There's no point in trading Eller considering his trade value is really low right now. I wouldn't even entertain the though of trading him for a second round pick this year, but a first round pick might be interesting. I would sign Eller for a 1 year contract and let him prove his worth. It worked well with Plekanec after he really struggled in the 08-09 season.
Wishful thinking at its best.

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03-28-2014, 11:20 PM
  #105
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The search for a big, fearless two way center is an everyday quest for 30 nhl teams. Too soon to give up on Mr. Eller, IMO.

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03-28-2014, 11:22 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Wishful thinking at its best.
A first round pick would be enticing, but doesn't mean that what his current value is however. I don't know how you misunderstood what I posted...

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Old
03-29-2014, 05:36 AM
  #107
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No, I want Galchenyuk as a center by next year or I will be a very unhappy man. Now that I think about it, we may be forced to move Eller to wing. I was thinking that he should be our 4th line center until Galchenyuk is ready to take over DD's spot, so we could trade DD, and move Eller to the third line.

But that could take a while, so moving ELler to wing may be our best option. I am not a fan of trading Eller, however. I admit that it's partly because I just really like the guy. But it's also because I don't think we will get much in return (perhaps we could get Zack Kassian for him?) unless it' a package deal.

Plus, I don't see the point of moving him to the wing unless Galchenyuk will be centering him and Gallagher for the whole season, something I'm not sure Therrien would do.
I really really don't want to trade Eller either. he's better than this. Players have off years. I think he was probably miffed at being separated from the 2 gallys and being moved down to the 3rd line and never quite got over it (until recently).

MB's smart and I think he realizes this and won't be hasty in trading away Eller. He has a chance to get him at a good rate and could be like Patch and DD in getting really good value for a fairly cheap contract. We need those type contracts/players if we want to keep Vanek.

Eller could still step it up at center and possibly make Pleks more expendable. Not saying I want that per se but it's another option. It's nice to have all this depth.

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03-29-2014, 10:11 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
I really really don't want to trade Eller either. he's better than this. Players have off years. I think he was probably miffed at being separated from the 2 gallys and being moved down to the 3rd line and never quite got over it (until recently).

MB's smart and I think he realizes this and won't be hasty in trading away Eller. He has a chance to get him at a good rate and could be like Patch and DD in getting really good value for a fairly cheap contract. We need those type contracts/players if we want to keep Vanek.

Eller could still step it up at center and possibly make Pleks more expendable. Not saying I want that per se but it's another option. It's nice to have all this depth.
I don't see that happening anytime soon though. Plus, I don't want Plekanec traded. I like our team with Galchenyuk, Plekanec, and Eller as our top 3 centers than I do with Galchenyuk, Desharnais, Eller. Assuming of course that Galchenyuk becomes who we expect him to become and that Eller at least returns to his last season form.

This way then we could trade DD for a winger/defensemen.

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03-29-2014, 10:49 AM
  #109
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I could see Eller being traded in a package for another piece we need. We need a defensive upgrade in the top 4 to have a high quality back end. MB has been interested in Edler. If MB thinks this is just an off year for Edler and the Canucks want to make changes, and they think Eller had an off year, then maybe Gorges, Eller and a pick get you Edler.

We therefore upgrade on the top 2, and the Nocks downgrade on the D but still have a solid D guy in Gorges, along with adding a big, young center and a pick.

Please note, before I start getting the Edler is a bum or why would the Nucks take a bum like Eller, I said IF the respective GMS think these guys are having off years.

I also want to add I really like Eller and think part of the problem is how MT has handled him, but if MT isn't going anywhere and doesn't change how he plays him and helps him, then Eller is likely to do more of the same. I think Eller is also RFA for only one more year and as this year has been awful, if he is signed to just 1 year he could go UFA after next season.

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03-29-2014, 12:37 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
I've been thinking this forever! I think Eller could be a real good winger, or an average center.
It happens with some players that they don't develop a role initially projected. However, it doesn't mean they can't be extremely USEFUL to their team in the role they eventually adopt.

Carbonneau was a 50+ goal-scorer with great offensive upside while in the minors but, more importantly, great on ice vision. At the NHL vision, he used his strength in terms of vision and hockey sense to reinvent himself as a defensive specialist and raise to the level of one of the best at it in the game. His WORTH to the team was exceptional as he could also provide secondary scoring while being a premiere shutdown C.

I'm not comparing Eller to Carbonneau, per se but, IMO, at this stage, Eller is still chasing a role he was projected to play instead of concentrating on a role he can already excel at. he,s caught between to roles and sucks at both as he chases one of them. Eller wants to produce and, instead of being solid defensively, is getting caught with turnovers resulting from blind, hail mary passes to try and create magical offensive plays.

If I were him, I'd concentrate on being an excellent shutdown, 3rd line C who can contribute, occasionally, with secondary scoring. Baby steps. As he gains in that role and his confidence, he can take the next step instead of chasing flashes in terms of offensive production.

IMO, this is sound logic but, we can always just say Therrien sucks

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03-29-2014, 12:44 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
I could see Eller being traded in a package for another piece we need. We need a defensive upgrade in the top 4 to have a high quality back end. MB has been interested in Edler. If MB thinks this is just an off year for Edler and the Canucks want to make changes, and they think Eller had an off year, then maybe Gorges, Eller and a pick get you Edler.

We therefore upgrade on the top 2, and the Nocks downgrade on the D but still have a solid D guy in Gorges, along with adding a big, young center and a pick.

Please note, before I start getting the Edler is a bum or why would the Nucks take a bum like Eller, I said IF the respective GMS think these guys are having off years.

I also want to add I really like Eller and think part of the problem is how MT has handled him, but if MT isn't going anywhere and doesn't change how he plays him and helps him, then Eller is likely to do more of the same. I think Eller is also RFA for only one more year and as this year has been awful, if he is signed to just 1 year he could go UFA after next season.
Edler is not that good. And this still forces Galchenyuk to play a shut down role.

Eller will sign a bridge deal and if doesn't pick it up he'll be moved next year. I doubt he won't pick it up but our coaching staff has no idea how to utilize our players.

Last year they preached on players will be rewarded for effort. He does it last year (barely a reward), gets knocked out in the playoffs, continues it for 20 games and then the cluster **** of line orgies happens. He wasn't rewarded at all. Pretty sure he does what he wants on the ice and ignores MT (who literally said he doesn't talk to his players).

This Habs team should actually be better then they are.

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Old
03-29-2014, 03:42 PM
  #112
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Edler is not that good. And this still forces Galchenyuk to play a shut down role.

Eller will sign a bridge deal and if doesn't pick it up he'll be moved next year. I doubt he won't pick it up but our coaching staff has no idea how to utilize our players.

Last year they preached on players will be rewarded for effort. He does it last year (barely a reward), gets knocked out in the playoffs, continues it for 20 games and then the cluster **** of line orgies happens. He wasn't rewarded at all. Pretty sure he does what he wants on the ice and ignores MT (who literally said he doesn't talk to his players).

This Habs team should actually be better then they are.
Pleks plays the shut down role, Gally would be about offense .

Cant be a bridge deal if Eller goes UFA after next season, can it ? I thought Bridge deals take you to when you are still RFA and then you do a long term deal, but maybe I am wrong.

Agree with everything you said about Ellers work last year and early this year. By the time he got his so called chance last year it was long overdue and only because of injury, not because MT decided to move him up in place of anybody, he had no choice.
I am sure Eller didn't get what was happening and what his role is. I mean if you do great last year, start off great for a quarter season, hit a bump and then the floor caves in, how do you take that ?

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03-31-2014, 05:38 PM
  #113
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someone's been-a reading muh posts!!!!

I think he was always tried as a top 6 winger. Maybe on a 3rd line he can make it happen. I just think he has to be given a real shot at it not just a game here and a game there. Give Gio and Briere space.

I wouldn't be surprised if he turns it around with this shot.

Come on Larry. Prove me right!

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03-31-2014, 10:22 PM
  #114
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I can't believe the number of people who want to trade Eller.
Does nobody remember the amazing hockey he's played for this team in a number of play off years and the stretch run last year. We need to give this guy a break maybe ask Codere to send out a tweet or something. Why do some people not see value other than scoring goals? The only thing wrong with Eller is the Diaz/Gryba incident set him on the wrong path this year, and dismantling EGG was devestating for him. Eller has always impressed me with his skating ability over the last number of years it isn't close with regards to miles skated for this team. unfortunately this year he decided to bulk up for obvious reasons but it actually ended up hurting his greatest asset. I hope someone in the organization has recognized this and has Lars revert to his wirey frame. He is far quicker and has much more stamina with his natural build.


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04-01-2014, 09:40 AM
  #115
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Eller simply has a terribly low hockey IQ and his confidence is fragile. He has a great physical skillset that allows him to carry the puck and protect it. He is absolutely lost without the puck however, this is the reason that he struggles on the wing and in the current system where Therrien stresses dumping the puck.

It is a vicious circle for him as he needs to rebuild his confidence but in order to do that he needs to be able to carry the puck and dictate where the play is headed as opposed to being lost while chasing the play without the instincts to recover the puck. The end result is shattered confidence and tentative play that just leads to more mistakes. I suspect that he would be far more effective in a puck possession type of system. It is no coincidence that his play went down the toilet when Therrien went from a possession system to a dump and chase scheme early in the season.

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04-01-2014, 11:05 AM
  #116
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I disagree, since he started the season on fire with the EGG line. Eller's confidence problems IMO stem from MT bouncing him around the line up.
^ Somebody make this kid a mod. I've noticed he consistently brings common sense to topics on our forum.

Oh wait, maybe he should be banned then

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04-01-2014, 02:07 PM
  #117
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You'd be surprised how many teams would be interested in Eller if MB decided to trade him. I'm of the thought that if you trade Eller away now it'll just be another move the Habs will regret down the road.
True...
I don't have a problem putting him on the wing with DB and Gio. He will take care of the lion's share of puck pursuit anyways. He will still take the important draws in his own end.
So essentially where you line him up to start the game is meaningless.
The only drawback is with regards to D zone coverage if they happen to get their wires get crossed.
i like the idea of Eller being able to pressure pinching D but then you have to trust that Danny is taking care of the down low play.

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04-01-2014, 03:48 PM
  #118
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You'd have to be quite dishonest to believe that. I've watched all games and the PP minutes Eller gets are the last 20 seconds. At the end of a game, his stats may show 1 minute of PP but it is obviously misleading. As others have mentioned, if Eller would have gotten the same opportunities Desharnais got, he couldn't have failed. In fact, no one would fail in these circumstances.

Eller has no place on that team. He had no place from the moment Therrien showed up and he, Therrien, was very clear on this. Habs don't need him. Next season, they got Desharnais, Plekanec, Briere and Galchenyuk. I don't know why Lars was nervous on trade deadline when the best thing that could happen for his career would be in fact a trade.

Of course, his value couldn't be any worse but Bergevin can only blame himself. He had offers but he chose to stay put.
The bolded part is the speculative part. That's why the arguments bandied about are useless. For those arguing we should remove Desharnais, altogether, from the equation, it's an automatic that anyone else would perform equally or better than Desharnais under the same conditions.

The problem is that, to prove the point, especially when you are replacing Desharnais with a younger player, whether Eller or, even, Galchenyuk, you would have to actually remove Desharnais from the equation and there is NO REAL GUARANTEE the result will be equal -- or better -- at this moment in time, regardless of your crystal ball hobbies.

That's precisely why, at this time, Therrien wouldn't do that, not this close to the playoffs. Of course, we should just fire Therrien for being unwilling to overhaul what is currently working just to please your fantasies involving NO DESHARNAIS in the equation…

For those arguing Desharnais is being pampered because he has the two best wingers, you are making it sound like they aren't only the two best wingers but, rather, the only two good wingers! If that's the case, this team will always be a one-line team, whomever centres those two wingers!

It's a rather bleak picture of the team that we can't ice a good 2nd line outside of Pacioretty, Desharnais and Vanek. Not every other winger is Moen. Shouldn't we be able to ice something decent in Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gallagher?

If not, because of defensive concerns about using Plekanec with two rookies (Galchenyuk and Gallagher haven't played long enough, IMO, to be considered young veterans like Pacioretty has, for example), couldn't playing Brière with the two Gs provide offense as well? You could also bank on the EGG line again, perhaps, especially if you're so certain they would be lights out like they were for 8 games at the beginning of the season….

I'd be much more interested in reading solutions not centred around breaking up the Pacioretty-DD-Vanek line that is producing quite well and, mostly, at even strength, one of our glaring weaknesses for years now.

If that line stays together (yes, to your heart's chagrin) how would you complete the lineup effectively with what is left at your disposal?

There's a chance to prove your mettle as a future NHL coach, no?

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04-01-2014, 04:09 PM
  #119
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The bolded part is the speculative part. That's why the arguments bandied about are useless. For those arguing we should remove Desharnais, altogether, from the equation, it's an automatic that anyone else would perform equally or better than Desharnais under the same conditions.

The problem is that, to prove the point, especially when you are replacing Desharnais with a younger player, whether Eller or, even, Galchenyuk, you would have to actually remove Desharnais from the equation and there is NO REAL GUARANTEE the result will be equal -- or better -- at this moment in time, regardless of your crystal ball hobbies.
I agree it's speculative to a certain extent but it's not just pure guess work either. Both Eller and Galchenyuk have shown signs that they could handle it. But it will always be speculative until it happens and they either sink or swim. So the real question is how productive do they have to be on the third line before we make the switch and find out?

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04-01-2014, 06:12 PM
  #120
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Swing for the fences.... when the time is right, swing a nieuwendyk for iginla trade by using Plekanec to get us a youngish power forward.

A Toffoli or Nichushkin would be nice. Lets hope LA or Dallas fall for it.

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04-01-2014, 09:43 PM
  #121
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Offensive zone penalties galore. Awesome.

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04-04-2014, 10:30 PM
  #122
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didn't watch but he scored and i heard he was physical!

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04-05-2014, 12:38 AM
  #123
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didn't watch but he scored and i heard he was physical!
It was obvious he is not comfortable at wing and his best attributes are best utilized with the puck on his stick. He's a centerman, goal tonight or not.

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04-05-2014, 12:53 AM
  #124
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It was obvious he is not comfortable at wing and his best attributes are best utilized with the puck on his stick. He's a centerman, goal tonight or not.
whatever the position he just needs to play better

i guess he'll be traded in the off season

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04-05-2014, 01:30 AM
  #125
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It was obvious he is not comfortable at wing and his best attributes are best utilized with the puck on his stick. He's a centerman, goal tonight or not.
Surely he can adapt over time. I think he just needs to simplify his game. He should use his big frame in front of the net and along the boards and learn to use his slick hands in close.

I think Vanek could show him a thing or too. Eller obviously doesn't have his offensive IQ but I still think it's higher than most think. I think Eller just tries to do too much at times. Also, maybe he shouldn't have gained more weight in the offseason.

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whatever the position he just needs to play better

i guess he'll be traded in the off season
I think they'll keep him. Bourque and Gio will be gone. We have a chance to sign him dirt cheap. This is the worst he'll be with a decent chance of him regaining previous form. We'll have a solid bottom 6er with size who can play center or wing. Really don't see why they have to trade him.

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