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04-06-2014, 01:35 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Since its hard to move the puck playing your offside, shouldnt you have the guy the better overally puck moving skill do the tougher job of playing their offside?
Not really. Gorges is going to chip it off the glass regardless of which side he's on. So left or right we get the same result and aren't losing anything. By putting Emelin on his offside we are limiting his puck movement, so we end up with 2 guys who have trouble moving the puck instead of one guy who can move the puck and one guy who struggles.

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04-06-2014, 01:35 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Since its hard to move the puck playing your offside, shouldnt you have the guy the better overally puck moving skill do the tougher job of playing their offside?
So by your own logic, Markov should play right and Emelin left?

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04-06-2014, 01:39 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Not really. Gorges is going to chip it off the glass regardless of which side he's on. So left or right we get the same result and aren't losing anything. By putting Emelin on his offside we are limiting his puck movement, so we end up with 2 guys who have trouble moving the puck instead of one guy who can move the puck and one guy who struggles.
Its not as simply as just putting it off the glace, you have not only less time, but have to do it on your backhand. And if you notice, Emelin has underrated vision, he sometimes holds on the puck longer and turns back to ring the puck along the boards the other side, when he knows he won't be able to get the puck out of the zone on his back hand.

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04-06-2014, 01:41 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Ledevin View Post
So by your own logic, Markov should play right and Emelin left?
Markov would probaly be able good on RD, but he simply just never played RD, he has always played LD his entire life. Not once has he played RD. Not sure if he pefers it, but I bet he would be much better than Emelin/Gorges playing RD.

Reason I used the Gorges/Emelin is because Gorges has played RD in the NHL. And Emelin has actually played RD for most of his career, and has said he perfers it.

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04-06-2014, 01:41 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by PsychoticHab View Post
Thanks.

Emelin seems to be gearing up for the POs.

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04-06-2014, 01:45 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Markov would probaly be able good on RD, but he simply just never played RD, he has always played LD his entire life. Not once has he played RD. Not sure if he pefers it, but I bet he would be much better than Emelin/Gorges playing RD.

Reason I used the Gorges/Emelin is because Gorges has played RD in the NHL. And Emelin has actually played RD for most of his career, and has said he perfers it.
If Emelin and Gorges who both have never played on the right can do it, I think mighty Markov can do it better.

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04-06-2014, 01:47 PM
  #182
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does anyone have the tartar sauce hit from last night video link?

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04-06-2014, 01:48 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by PsychoticHab View Post
I was harsh on Emelin during his slump but that's that kind of thing that gets me so excited for the playoffs.

Atta boy, Emy

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04-06-2014, 01:49 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by compile View Post
If Emelin and Gorges who both have never played on the right can do it, I think mighty Markov can do it better.
Again Emelin has been playing RD since his KHL days. Gorges dating back to his days in San Jose.

And I'm not sure who is saying Markov can't do it, I'm saying maybe Markov doesn't want to do it. Some guys just perfer to play on a certain side, forwards and dmen. Ex, Pacioretty likes to play only LW, Cammy was the same thing, Vanek actually likes to play his offwing, Dion with the Leafs likes play his offside, Cole only wants to play his offside, etc.

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04-06-2014, 01:54 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Its not as simply as just putting it off the glace, you have not only less time, but have to do it on your backhand. And if you notice, Emelin has underrated vision, he sometimes holds on the puck longer and turns back to ring the puck along the boards the other side, when he knows he won't be able to get the puck out of the zone on his back hand.
It's not like Gorges never sends the puck back the other way when he has time.

The situation you brought up is not very common, we are talking about what 1 or 2 times a game where Emelin can use his superior vision/passing skills and Gorges can't? Is that worth the 15-20 times that Emelin would be able to use his superior vision/passing if he was on the left side?

Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Markov would probaly be able good on RD, but he simply just never played RD, he has always played LD his entire life. Not once has he played RD. Not sure if he pefers it, but I bet he would be much better than Emelin/Gorges playing RD.

Reason I used the Gorges/Emelin is because Gorges has played RD in the NHL. And Emelin has actually played RD for most of his career, and has said he perfers it.
Of course Markov will be better than Gorges/Emelin because he's simply a much better player. The question is which is better Markov - Emelin or Emelin - Markov. It's clearly Markov on the left because it gives him much better chance to utilize his strengths.

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04-06-2014, 01:59 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Since its hard to move the puck playing your offside, shouldnt you have the guy the better overally puck moving skill do the tougher job of playing their offside?
Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe, JC Tremblay
Bobby Orr
Brad Park
Raymond Bourque
Borje Salming
Scott Neidermayer

How many more Elite defencemen do we need to find through history who shot left and played right D?

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04-06-2014, 02:01 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Again Emelin has been playing RD since his KHL days. Gorges dating back to his days in San Jose.

And I'm not sure who is saying Markov can't do it, I'm saying maybe Markov doesn't want to do it. Some guys just perfer to play on a certain side, forwards and dmen. Ex, Pacioretty likes to play only LW, Cammy was the same thing, Vanek actually likes to play his offwing, Dion with the Leafs likes play his offside, Cole only wants to play his offside, etc.
So the players coach the team now? Or is it because they suck on their opposite side? Vanek is used to play on his offside because that's how they play in Europe, which makes complete sense for a forward.

For a dman, playing on your opposite side is actually really difficult. Emelin is a much better player on the left then on the right. MT is to stupid to realize that 2-5 games is not how you evaluate someone.

Emelin with Subban would fix that problem, the Markov with Weaver.

The issue is the current GM and previous didn't see a need for having proper d pairings. The Pp is a different story as you aren't clearing your zone (unless Pacio or DD decide to give the other team a break away).

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04-06-2014, 02:13 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It's not like Gorges never sends the puck back the other way when he has time.

The situation you brought up is not very common, we are talking about what 1 or 2 times a game where Emelin can use his superior vision/passing skills and Gorges can't? Is that worth the 15-20 times that Emelin would be able to use his superior vision/passing if he was on the left side?



Of course Markov will be better than Gorges/Emelin because he's simply a much better player. The question is which is better Markov - Emelin or Emelin - Markov. It's clearly Markov on the left because it gives him much better chance to utilize his strengths.
-When he has time yes, but the issue is there is no time, and playing your offside gives you less time.

-As for a Markov-Emelin, well if just based on their skill, If I had to have have 1 of them play RD, it would be Markov. But in reality, Markov has never played RD, and Emelin has played it for most of his hockey career, and has shown he can do it effective.

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04-06-2014, 02:15 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe, JC Tremblay
Bobby Orr
Brad Park
Raymond Bourque
Borje Salming
Scott Neidermayer

How many more Elite defencemen do we need to find through history who shot left and played right D?
Yup, Pronger was another one, he liked to play RD even tho he was a lefty.

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04-06-2014, 02:20 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by compile View Post
So the players coach the team now? Or is it because they suck on their opposite side? Vanek is used to play on his offside because that's how they play in Europe, which makes complete sense for a forward.

For a dman, playing on your opposite side is actually really difficult. Emelin is a much better player on the left then on the right. MT is to stupid to realize that 2-5 games is not how you evaluate someone.

Emelin with Subban would fix that problem, the Markov with Weaver.

The issue is the current GM and previous didn't see a need for having proper d pairings. The Pp is a different story as you aren't clearing your zone (unless Pacio or DD decide to give the other team a break away).
Agree 100%, I have said ideally you want everyone to play their right side.

But what happens when you want Gorges, Emelin, Markov, Murray, Subban Weaver in the lineup.

a Lefty has to play thier offside.....

Like you said its really tougher to play your offside, out of Gorges Markov, Emelin, Murray, only Gorges and Emelin have played their offside...

Do you want the guy with the skillset at handling the tough parts of playing yourside in Emelin, or do you play the guy lower skillset at handling playing their offside?

As for the last part, I suggest you look around the NHL and name the teams that actually have a pefect match of Lefties playing LD and righties playing RD. There are more left handed players than righties in the NHL.

Teams are not going to play guys with less talent just so they have a perfect match.

Ex say you wanted to go with
Emelin-Subban
Markov-Weaver
Tinordi-Beaulieu

Are you saying the Habs should then get rid of Beaulieu and replace him with the next Righty on the depth chart even if he horrible?


Last edited by habs03: 04-06-2014 at 02:28 PM.
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04-06-2014, 02:25 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
-When he has time yes, but the issue is there is no time, and playing your offside gives you less time.

-As for a Markov-Emelin, well if just based on their skill, If I had to have have 1 of them play RD, it would be Markov. But in reality, Markov has never played RD, and Emelin has played it for most of his hockey career, and has shown he can do it effective.
That's just mind-boggling.

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04-06-2014, 02:30 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
That's just mind-boggling.
lol

Let me ask you, If you had to have a left handed player, and you had to play him on RD.

What skillset would you like him to have so that he can have the most success playing his offside?

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04-06-2014, 02:48 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
While you would like to have everyone playing their natural side, ex Emelin on LD.

Some of stuff ppl saying is just bs. Ex that Emelin hits less when playing RD. NOT true, he hits less now because under MT he doesn't like Dmen to go for hits and get out of position, which is why Subban and Emelin hits total are probaly down than in the past.

Emelin played RD for all of his first year in Mtl and he was a hitting machine, he played RD with Kaberle playing LD, he played maybe 3-4 games in the NHL at LD when paired with Daiz.

He has also said he likes to play RD and has done it is whole life, he played RD in the KHL as well.

Also, playing your offside doesn't change your positioning, a guy like Emelin who has played RD his whole life, any struggles positional isn't because of playing your offside.

The only thing that playing your offside effects, is moving the puck, you are forced to be on your back hand a lot more, passing angles are harder, and you have less time with the puck. None of those were the reason why Emelin was struggling early on.

The worse is ppl saying that Emelin should play LD, and have Gorges play RD, and while Gorges can play RD, Emelin is a much better with the puck, and moving it, its would be one of the stupiest things to do.
I find it hard to believe Emelin played RD in the KHL, when every time I see him switched to LD, it's like night & day and you can tell he's in his natural position.

Whereas the best shutdown pairing the Habs have had in the last 5 years saw Gorges playing on the right side of Hal Gill.

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04-06-2014, 02:59 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
lol

Let me ask you, If you had to have a left handed player, and you had to play him on RD.

What skillset would you like him to have so that he can have the most success playing his offside?
Your asking the wrong question. The question should be how do you get the most of a d pairing when both guys shoot the same way. The answer there is to have the better puck mover on his proper side.

I don't care that Markov can potentially handle playing on his offside better than Emelin, I care that he would be handling the puck on his backhand way more which neutralizes one of his biggest assets. It's simple play people too their strengths.

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04-06-2014, 03:23 PM
  #195
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This will be the first time Emelin gets NHL playoff action isn't it?

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04-06-2014, 03:54 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Shutdown View Post
I find it hard to believe Emelin played RD in the KHL, when every time I see him switched to LD, it's like night & day and you can tell he's in his natural position.

Whereas the best shutdown pairing the Habs have had in the last 5 years saw Gorges playing on the right side of Hal Gill.
Yup, he played mainly RD in the KHL, a lot of European guys play their offside/offwing.

Also not sure how much you actually watched him play LD since in his whole time in Mtl he has only played 4-5 games when he was paired with Daiz, he than played the rest of the year on RD with Kaberle playing LD.

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04-06-2014, 04:13 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Your asking the wrong question. The question should be how do you get the most of a d pairing when both guys shoot the same way. The answer there is to have the better puck mover on his proper side.

I don't care that Markov can potentially handle playing on his offside better than Emelin, I care that he would be handling the puck on his backhand way more which neutralizes one of his biggest assets. It's simple play people too their strengths.
Again, when you don't have 3 Lefty Dmen, and 3 Righty dmen, as is the case with most NHL teams, since forever. You have to put someone on their offside and are forced to not play to the strenght.

At that point, you have to figure out who is least effected by the change.

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04-06-2014, 04:35 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Again, when you don't have 3 Lefty Dmen, and 3 Righty dmen, as is the case with most NHL teams, since forever. You have to put someone on their offside and are forced to not play to the strenght.

At that point, you have to figure out who is least effected by the change.
The bolded part is what I'm talking about. Passing is one of Markov's biggest strengths so you maximize that strength by putting him on the left side. If it means someone who isn't as good passing wise plays his offside then so be it.

A defenceman who can pass well needs to be on his correct side more so than someone who isn't good with the puck.

EDIT: Just to clarify your position seems to be Emelin is already worse than Markov at passing so let's not put Emelin on the right side and expose that "weakness" even more. I can't get behind that because it's playing not to lose rather than playing to win. Instead we should put our best players in the best situations/roles and try to win on their strengths rather than have them cover for lesser players weaknesses.


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04-06-2014, 05:29 PM
  #199
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Emelin has played great hockey the past 3 weeks. He is a tough, bruising stay at home type. A chicken (as per Lucic)? because he is not a fighter? Give me a break. Lucic was challenged back in the day by BGL and chickened out. Damn I hate that team....Emelin plays honest, tough hockey.
More than the 3 past weeks, he has been very good since being benched on the 1/22/2014 against the Penguins. Since then he has 11 pts in 29 games, he's +10 (for thoses who like that stat) and he has played on average 20:59 of ice time. Also, I'm happy Therrien has seen his offensive potential and is using him on the PP (something we have been saying for so long) and he played well in that role.

Since then he's a good top 4 D like last season and if he can play at this level on a consistent base (I think it was a tough return from injury) he's worth his contract.

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04-06-2014, 05:31 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
The bolded part is what I'm talking about. Passing is one of Markov's biggest strengths so you maximize that strength by putting him on the left side. If it means someone who isn't as good passing wise plays his offside then so be it.

A defenceman who can pass well needs to be on his correct side more so than someone who isn't good with the puck.

EDIT: Just to clarify your position seems to be Emelin is already worse than Markov at passing so let's not put Emelin on the right side and expose that "weakness" even more. I can't get behind that because it's playing not to lose rather than playing to win. Instead we should put our best players in the best situations/roles and try to win on their strengths rather than have them cover for lesser players weaknesses.
As a general rule yes. But again like I said, you have to factor in reality, ex Markov never playing RD in his life, wher as Emelin has played RD most of his KHL/NHL career.

But yes, that is my position in regards to why Emelin should play RD over Gorges, because Gorges isn't as good as a pucker mover as Emelin is.

Again, you keep talking about putting ppl in the best situation, who can you say yet then say, ya lets put Gorges in a tougher spot, its ok if he screws up.


I understand where you are coming from, but I think you need to see the reality that unless you have a perfect Righty RD lefty LD match, somene is not going to be put in the best situation.

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