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Is it ok for an Atom Coach to say this

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Old
03-25-2014, 01:29 PM
  #26
CornKicker
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Originally Posted by jsykes View Post
I hate the adage of "everyone just have fun, its all about everyone enjoying themselves, blah blah blah."

Sports is sports and I'm sick of the "no child left behind" crap. The entire reason for sports is to compete and win and regardless of the level, that is still the purpose. Otherwise, why have a winner and loser, just let the kids go out and play pickup. Kids need to learn this and because everyone is scared of hurting feelings these days, kids dont learn how to take loss and disappointment later in life, in school in anything. They continue to think they just deserve it.

However, there is no reason to go out of your way to put a kid down or make them feel bad.

I dont see a problem with it if, like another poster said, the tone of it was not harsh or demeaning. I coached several teams when I was younger and, if done right, the intensity of the sport can be passed on to the kids in the right way, regardless of the level of play. Hell, many house players are just as intense and want to win, they just werent good enough to make the travel team. But many wish they did and would appreciate being treated similar.

Just cause you're always trying hard doesnt mean you dont make silly mistakes. If the kid did something he knows was wrong and a silly mistake, I dont see an issue with that statement if said in a positive tone.

i agree with this so much it makes me mad. Sports/Competition in general is designed to encourage hard work and determination. It is a means to teach teamwork and collectively working as one for a common goal. you know, all the things kids need to succeed in the real working world long after hockey is over? the whole everyone wins BS is just enabling people/parents to allow their kids to be selfish and lazy etc because they are going to get the end result anyway. Its so sad to see it in sport.

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03-25-2014, 04:14 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsykes View Post
I hate the adage of "everyone just have fun, its all about everyone enjoying themselves, blah blah blah."

Sports is sports and I'm sick of the "no child left behind" crap. The entire reason for sports is to compete and win and regardless of the level, that is still the purpose. Otherwise, why have a winner and loser, just let the kids go out and play pickup. Kids need to learn this and because everyone is scared of hurting feelings these days, kids dont learn how to take loss and disappointment later in life, in school in anything. They continue to think they just deserve it.
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i agree with this so much it makes me mad. Sports/Competition in general is designed to encourage hard work and determination. It is a means to teach teamwork and collectively working as one for a common goal. you know, all the things kids need to succeed in the real working world long after hockey is over? the whole everyone wins BS is just enabling people/parents to allow their kids to be selfish and lazy etc because they are going to get the end result anyway. Its so sad to see it in sport.
It's about context and age appropriate behaviors.

Is it appropriate to take an 'everybody wins' attitude with 6 year olds playing sports for the first time? Absolutely yes.

Is it appropriate to take an 'everybody wins' attitude in high school where students are being prepared for college and/or the real world? I would say no.

Also, I would say that (as with most things in life), if you're playing a sport and not having fun doing it then what's the point? I play beer league hockey because it's fun, not because of the non-existent trophy for winning.

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03-25-2014, 05:28 PM
  #28
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I have a couple of points but I agree that it's probably a poor choice of words.

1. Coaches need to hold players accountable and it is hard to always pick the proper wording for every situation especially when you add in the fast pace/stressful nature of sports. I drop f bombs at my catholic high school football players (which is not appropriate). But sometimes you just can't help it after telling somebody: do this do this do this do this And then and they do that. argghhggg!


2. I remember being 8 years old playing football we lost by 4 touchdowns to Howell gold. So our coach decided we were going to have "hell" week. 4 laps 4 sets of leg lifts 4 sets of up downs 4 of everything he could do to physically punish 8-9year olds for losing a football game. Looking back that is ridiculous. But I played football for 15 more years so I don't know how much damage was done. God that guy would be on the news if that happened know.



3. Youth coaches are bad at coaching usually.

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03-25-2014, 08:25 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by crazyh0rse View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought at this level it isn't about winning but about encouraging eachother and having fun?

What are your opinions
I don't think winning should be the *solitary* or even necessarily the *primary* goal, but it should be among the top goals.

Losing shouldn't be the end of the world and there are more important things to focus on than just winning, but IMO, winning should still be a main focus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyh0rse View Post
Is it okay for an Atom coach to say...."Get your head in the game" or is that a bit much?
I think it depends on the situation, but I have no problem with such a comment in general towards kids.

I think a general "Get your head in the game" admonition is fair and reasonable for kids of that age. Yeah, it's youth rec league, but there are still some things kids that age should know and be doing consistently. If they aren't doing them consistently for whatever reason (especially if it seems like the error happened because of laziness or a lack of reasonably focus), I think it's fine to point that out in that situation.

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Originally Posted by crazyh0rse View Post
I know they were in the play offs but this is house league and the kid is 9 years old and always gives 100%.
Giving 100% isn't necessarily the issue. A player that age (or any age) can be giving 100% effort, but not necessarily giving 100% focus or attention. You can skate hard, but then also not be aware of your surroundings. You can try hard but still not be paying the necessary attention to surrounding details. I wouldn't say anything harsh over one mistake. But if it's an egregious error or a constantly repeated error (something we've been working on all season in practice, talking about all game long, and you're still making lazy unforced mistakes)? Or an error made because he was looking into the stands rather than focused on the play? I wouldn't expect that level of focus from a 6-year-old, but there are some things that kids of age 9/10 (even in a rec league) should be doing.

So, in general, I do think such a criticism can sometimes be warranted from an Atom. That being said, I can't say whether that particular coach was warranted in making that particular criticism in that particular situation. From the sound of other things you've said this particular coach probably doesn't know what he's doing and that situation probably didn't warrant his comments.

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Old
03-27-2014, 02:23 AM
  #30
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I coached in house of the same age and my only goals were improving individual player fundamentals and maintaining a fun atmosphere always. When I followed this I never had one issue with a player or parent.

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03-27-2014, 02:27 PM
  #31
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It all depends on exactly how it is said, and who the player is. As it has been said, it is context. Are they yelling it, or saying it? Is it said with venom? I have coached teams at that age and have had some excellent players -- the kind you know are going some where. I coach them harder and push them harder than a new player or one I can see is not at that same level. It comes down to understanding how a player will react and making sure that what you say to them pushes them forward. What is good for one kid is not necessarily good for the other.

When coaches used to jump on me, it would tick me off and I would go much harder to "show them up". It worked for me. Still does. Others will turtle up. Gotta know your audience.

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03-28-2014, 10:45 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 17of26 View Post
Also, I would say that (as with most things in life), if you're playing a sport and not having fun doing it then what's the point? I play beer league hockey because it's fun, not because of the non-existent trophy for winning.
Of course, but why do you play in a beer league as opposed to just playing pickup?

If you're like me its because you enjoy the competition and the idea that someone wins and loses and, while you may not be playing for a trophy, you are playing to beat the other team and for the purpose of winning.

Yes, it needs to be fun, but the fun of competition is not ONLY winning, its the actual competition. Kids, even at a young age need to learn that the competition is OK and sometimes you lose. They also need to learn that they may not always be the best and deserve the same accolades as someone else.

I'm not saying grind some kid into the ground cause he sucks. But I am saying that they need to learn that, in life, the cream rises to the top and most of us are not that cream and we need to learn to deal with it and still be able to have fun knowing that fact.

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03-28-2014, 11:15 AM
  #33
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No different than a teacher telling a student to stop horsing around.

I'm sure we'd love to see all the kids have awesome, inspiring, motivational coaches at every level... but not having that does not make this comment inappropriate.

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03-28-2014, 11:19 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by crazyh0rse View Post
to a player? (House League)

"Get your head in the game" or is that a bit much? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought at this level it isn't about winning but about encouraging eachother and having fun?

What are your opinions
Terrible attitude. Competition is the essence of sports no matter what level, if you don't want to compete go do jogging or yoga. Seriously why would you even go play organized hockey if you're just going to halfass it and fool around? Do that by yourself or with a few buddies on open ice, not with full roster play. People not taking the competition seriously, playing just for "fun" are disrespecting those who are out there every game trying to play their best hockey with the objective of victory. By this logic adult beer leagues shouldn't be competitive either? Well that's just plain not true, winning a championship is basically the same no matter what level.

Just because it's "house league" doesn't mean it's soulless sports, that there aren't people there playing to win. A victory in sports is a victory for the players whether its house league or AAA, and there can be determined, competitive people in house league who for whatever reason aren't playing a high level league (lack of skills, lack of time, lack of money, scheduling conflicts).

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03-31-2014, 05:04 PM
  #35
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My son played house league Atom...and I was the coach. I would have to say, I had high expectations of my players.

To say to your players "Get your head in the game." to me means "You guys need to concentrate."

We live in a world of participation ribbons and "It's OK, junior." When they get into the real world where 100 different guys want that $100K job, they haven't been conditioned to compete.

I was never mean to the kids, but always expected their best, because if you aren't going to give your best, then why bother playing.

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04-01-2014, 11:59 PM
  #36
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The best coaches would still not be satisfied if a player continually went offside but they would be able to explain it better than telling him or her to 'get your head in the game'. These are 8, 9 or 10 year olds, for some players at that level it's their first year in hockey. There are better ways to get the kids engaged. I think of my son's best coaches and I can't picture them using that language with their players at that age. If they were older teenagers, or if it was competitive hockey, then that's completely different. There are a lot worse things that coaches could say or do, for sure, but I still don't think it's appropriate.

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04-02-2014, 09:39 AM
  #37
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Absolutely not okay, yes you want to win. Come on thought these kids are 10 years old. Most are just learning to play the game.

I have a SERIOUS hate for parents who think there kids are all stars or trying to gain glory from their children. Ruins minor hockey.

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Old
04-02-2014, 10:31 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by crazyh0rse View Post
I was thinking the same thing here. The coach would also tell my nephew to stay in his zone and not cross his own blue line because he doesn't want the other team to get break aways on his team.

My nephew is the youngest player on the team. If he was a month younger he would have been in Novice this past season.

It was in the medal round but seriously? This same coach told another kid "The game isn't all about goals and scoring, it's also about passing the puck". I found that hypocritical when he would let his own kid play most minutes and score 2 - 3 goals a game and never play defence

The other kid that he said that to was getting mad and telling me "I hate this coach. That coach doesn't know anything about hockey, I don't think he ever played hockey before, man he is fat, look at him he is really fat"
Couple thoughts, but first the bolded pretty much tells me the coach is freaking clueless and only cared about winning the game. I'm sure the context of "get your head in the game" was of a harsh tone, which is unacceptable at that age and level of play.

Lots of things to talk about with youth sports. I don't have an everybody wins mentality. I hate it actually. It's a fine line to walk with kids. The first, and most important, thing is that they have fun because if they are not having fun then they won't want to play anymore and won't develop any passion for the game. But everybody wins? Nah, how do you instill any drive or determination in a kid if you teach them it's ok to settle all the time? You can get that drive out of them without focusing on winning though, instead of talking about wins and losses at anything below Bantams coaches should focus on three questions; did you play your best, did you try your hardest, did we you/we improve? Focus on those three things and the winning will take care of itself.

I'd say that one kid was pretty perceptive. Sounds like the guy was a bad coach, though, I'm also guessing he was a volunteer. So instead of saying anything bad about the coach, why not take the coaching classes, grab a whistle and some skates, and get out there and make a positive environment for the kids.

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04-02-2014, 12:07 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SCBlueLiner View Post
Couple thoughts, but first the bolded pretty much tells me the coach is freaking clueless and only cared about winning the game. I'm sure the context of "get your head in the game" was of a harsh tone, which is unacceptable at that age and level of play.

Yeah my nephew said he was mad that the coach said that because he said his head was in the game and was trying to win because they were in their final game. My nephew scored 10 goals in 30 games but I thought that with a different coach that didn't just leave him on defence and tell him not to leave his own blue line he would have done a lot better.

I still remember the game where my nephew got mad and left his zone and deked through 4 kids and scored, right after that he scores an identical goal. Season high 2 markers in one game. Looked awesome when the reigns were not on him.

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04-02-2014, 01:00 PM
  #40
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When I coached my son's team 4 years ago I would tell the kids similar things like "keep your head in the game" but it was to teach them to be in the present. I did try to teach them to not worry about home or school during their hour of hockey. It did help some. I did push them to do their best, and for sum that was skating half the rink and not fall down. As others have stated the comment is fine depending on the tone.

As for the comments about "everyone has fun" and everyone gets participation medals. This drives me nuts.no need for a scoreboard if this is the case. My son is now 10 and he hates the "everyone gets a medal" attitude. He believes you have to earn the medal. In 2 tournaments he played in this season he has refused to wear the medals he has received for participating when his team didn't win first, second or third. Jay wife and I told him to go ahead as he played his butt off facing 30 to 40 shots a game, he's the goalie, but he said no and just put the medals in his desk drawer when he got home. He does have items he has won as player of the game displayed on his desk. He has told us that he feels if you don't place then you don't deserve anything.

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04-02-2014, 01:07 PM
  #41
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I may be wrong but I just thought that house league hockey was meant for fun while Rep Hockey was the competitive side. I don't mind a coach saying something to push the kid but the way my nephew described the situation was that he was getting mad at him. The nephew said he was only mad because he felt like his head was in the game and the one offside call was this other kid that went over the line before my nephew who had the puck and was just barely offside.

But all in all it was a good season.

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04-02-2014, 01:15 PM
  #42
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I don't think it's awful, but what point does it serve? No one likes to play for the coach who points out the obvious in a pseudo-degrading way. A good coach, especially at that level, bites his tongue, taps the player on the shoulder and says do you know what you did wrong? If he knows great, give him a smile or a wink and it ends there. If he doesn't know, then you explain it.

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04-02-2014, 01:18 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
I don't think it's awful, but what point does it serve? No one likes to play for the coach who points out the obvious in a pseudo-degrading way. A good coach, especially at that level, bites his tongue, taps the player on the shoulder and says do you know what you did wrong? If he knows great, give him a smile or a wink and it ends there. If he doesn't know, then you explain it.
That is what I mean. Coaching that builds the player up even if they have a bad game or shift. Letting the player know he did something wrong but not in a way that makes the kid feel bad.

That is why I like bringing him to his 1 on 1 training because his coach pushes him but does it in a positive environment that builds him up.

I don't think that a coach like this should stop coaching but I just asked this question to gain perspective and what other hockey fans or parents thought about this situation.

Thanks for the replies

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04-02-2014, 01:44 PM
  #44
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This particular coach sounds like he should be with an older group. As for the off sides, we spent pretty much the whole season teaching off sides and most of the kids just forgot. We ended up laughing a lot when it happened, as coaches, then we would just say to the kid "remember what we covered last practice? " The kid would then say "oh yeah", then next shift would do it again, lol.

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04-02-2014, 02:13 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Twrekx View Post
When I coached my son's team 4 years ago I would tell the kids similar things like "keep your head in the game" but it was to teach them to be in the present. I did try to teach them to not worry about home or school during their hour of hockey. It did help some. I did push them to do their best, and for sum that was skating half the rink and not fall down. As others have stated the comment is fine depending on the tone.

As for the comments about "everyone has fun" and everyone gets participation medals. This drives me nuts.no need for a scoreboard if this is the case. My son is now 10 and he hates the "everyone gets a medal" attitude. He believes you have to earn the medal. In 2 tournaments he played in this season he has refused to wear the medals he has received for participating when his team didn't win first, second or third. Jay wife and I told him to go ahead as he played his butt off facing 30 to 40 shots a game, he's the goalie, but he said no and just put the medals in his desk drawer when he got home. He does have items he has won as player of the game displayed on his desk. He has told us that he feels if you don't place then you don't deserve anything.
When I was coaching 10 year olds there were a couple of tournaments where I caught some players throwing their participation medals in the trash as they were walking out of the locker room door. I told them to retrieve them and take them home, after that they could do what they wanted with them, but that it would be pretty poor if the host team found the medals they gave us in the trash.

If only organizations knew that many of these kids don't really want participation trophies they could save a few bucks (those things aren't cheap). Most only care about winning the tournament. I honestly think it's many parents that care about the trinkets because they are the ones asking to see them when the kids walk out of the room.

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04-02-2014, 02:28 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SCBlueLiner View Post
When I was coaching 10 year olds there were a couple of tournaments where I caught some players throwing their participation medals in the trash as they were walking out of the locker room door. I told them to retrieve them and take them home, after that they could do what they wanted with them, but that it would be pretty poor if the host team found the medals they gave us in the trash.

If only organizations knew that many of these kids don't really want participation trophies they could save a few bucks (those things aren't cheap). Most only care about winning the tournament. I honestly think it's many parents that care about the trinkets because they are the ones asking to see them when the kids walk out of the room.
I think it's society in general now days. Where I live kids can not be failed without parents permission. The reasoning is that failing them hurts their egos. As such my wife, who is a teacher, has had kids do zero work all year and she has had to pass them to the next grade. I believe it is these same type of people that want "participation medals" for their kids so their kids don't feel bad for losing. But these are also usually the same parents that believe their little one is destend to be the next Crosby but the kids can't barely skate.

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04-03-2014, 02:27 PM
  #47
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Of course, but why do you play in a beer league as opposed to just playing pickup?
Well, I can give you my reason. I play in a beer league and rarely play pickup because, to me, the two are not remotely the same and I enjoy the organization of beer league a LOT more. I like it when the score counts. I like having a position to play. I like short, on time shifts. I like faceoffs, and penalties, and PP/PK. Pickups are just disorganized solo fun. I get that people like them, but for me, it is not very satisfying.

Jsyskes - I have to say that your icehouse runs pickups really well too. Stick toss, timed shifts, balancing sides, the whole deal. The whole thing just doesn't offer the things I like the way real games do though.

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04-06-2014, 11:46 PM
  #48
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It's perfectly acceptable.

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04-07-2014, 08:07 AM
  #49
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Im sorry if this might sound like a stupid question, but what is atom league? Is it only in Canada cause I've only heard it go from house, mite, squirt, peewee, bantam, midget, etc here in the States. Is it the basic equivalent to a mite or a squirt?

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04-07-2014, 01:56 PM
  #50
Burke the Legend
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squirt

in quebec when I was a kid it was

termite - novice - atom - peewee - bantam - midget

I think mosquito is used in some places too, not sure where or what age

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