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Old
02-28-2007, 06:32 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
Honestly speaking, I do believe Smyth is more than 3 times the player Bertuzzi is. Smyth brings a whole package, Bertuzzi brings in some goals with some whining.


In other news, Smyth can also heal cancer and transform water into wine.

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02-28-2007, 06:38 AM
  #77
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I suppose you're amongst the people who think Coffey was infinitely better than Lidström also just because he was unparalled in offense from d-men...

That one guy in the trading board section said it best, one day the antichrist, next day a hero just because he joined the wings.

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02-28-2007, 07:49 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
Honestly speaking, I do believe Smyth is more than 3 times the player Bertuzzi is. Smyth brings a whole package, Bertuzzi brings in some goals with some whining.
Sadly, here we must part. If that's actually what you think... well, best of luck with that.

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02-28-2007, 07:50 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
That one guy in the trading board section said it best, one day the antichrist, next day a hero just because he joined the wings.
Fortunately we don't have people who are exaggerating either the amount of negative feedback on Bert when he smashed Moore or the amount of positive feedback he's gotten since becoming a Wing, much less both simultaneously

That would be disconcertingly typical.

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02-28-2007, 07:51 AM
  #80
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No luck needed. The games are played on the ice, all I do here is discuss on a message board and say my opinion of it. It differs from yours, no big deal.

edit: and if you refer to me with the above post, don't bother. I'm worried about his whining habits and the issues that might rise in the locker room. As far as I'm concerned the Moore incident was just a bad case of luck for everyone involved. Yet Bertuzzi is far from a classy player...

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02-28-2007, 07:54 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
And while you say it was the smartest deal in the deadline, I counter that with Burke. According to reports he too tried to get Bertuzzi, and lost. Do you honestly think that Burke couldn't counter it with a better offer? Perhaps Burke saw the issues that might rise from the trade, just like I'm seeing them now...
Using that logic the 28 teams which don't make a trade for a player are all smarter than the 1 who did, because they knew not to offer as much as the team that acquired him did.

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02-28-2007, 08:08 AM
  #82
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Actually Smyth(as Oilers traded him) was more useful for us.He is younger and more talanted.He has big potential and scoring ability.
On the other hand, we havent got so big salary cap for Smyth, so Bertuzzi is the best variant for us today.But he is in injured reserve now.We dont know how he will play.Will se him...
And one good thing for Bertuzzi - he will be alone guy in our team, which will fight in PO.And it very important.I think it was one of the targets to buy Bertuzzi.But he isnt as Laraque, or Brashear - they play in 4th lines.Bert will be our top 6 forward.
I am expecting he will start play in the end of regular season, and will be in the best form for PO.

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02-28-2007, 08:12 AM
  #83
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Look at it in this way:

Even if Bertuzzi is crap - the roster contains Cleary and Samuelsson, who'd been playing in his place. We gave up a prospect (with traits that the org. is short of), but other than that, the team won't be going into playoffs WORSE than before this weekend.

if Bertuzzi somehow manages to ruin the clubhouse in, what, a couple of weeks, he's a brilliant demagogue and should go into politics.

If he stinks on the ice, well, too bad. Sometimes you got to gamble.

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02-28-2007, 08:25 AM
  #84
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Lets remeber Buffalo in PO 2005-06.They had injured almost all defense.So we need more players for each position.Bertuzzi will play on the RW.In the official site he is mentioned as LW.
1st Zetta-Dats-Holm - great play this season
2nd Calder-Lang-Bert
3rd Franzen-Draper-Molt
4th Samuelsson-Hudler(or somebody else)-Cleary - no one team in NHL has this 4th line.We may play into 4 line-team in PO.And so our players will be more fresh.

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02-28-2007, 08:37 AM
  #85
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Those lineups do look good but there's some concerns regarding the 2nd line. Last nights game showd that Calder really does grind it up out there, but that still doesn't help much if Lang is his usual lazy self, and Bertuzzi joining him and doing the same. For anyone who claims that Bert doesn't do that, just read what just about ALL Vancouver fans are saying about him, both fans and haters alike.

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02-28-2007, 08:52 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
I suppose you're amongst the people who think Coffey was infinitely better than Lidström also just because he was unparalled in offense from d-men...


How does THAT have to do with ANYTHING we've been discussing in this thread? How can you possibly draw that conclusion from this discussion? Do you know what a suitable assumption would be with this discussion in mind?

"I suppose you're amongst the people who think the Hasek signing this summer was a bad move. He's old and has a groin made of glass."

Now that's of course directed at you, but you get the picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
That one guy in the trading board section said it best, one day the antichrist, next day a hero just because he joined the wings.
I would appreciate it if you started reading what I write to you. He isn't expected to be a hero. He isn't expected to be a go to guy. He's expected to be a 2nd line winger, taking some pressure off the first line. No one in their right mind is proclaiming him to be the second coming of Christ. Most are saying that if Bertuzzi is playing at just 75% of his old self, Wings will have won this trade by far. And like many of us have said, if he completely stinks, the Wings have lost minimally. It's like saying that the Hasek signing is bad when he's signed for 750k this season. There is virtually no risk and high reward. Get this through your thick skull, please.

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02-28-2007, 08:53 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by GuloGulo View Post
If he stinks on the ice, well, too bad. Sometimes you got to gamble.

Even better, think of it this way: Who would we rather see on the PO roster: Bertuzzi or Langfeld? That's the roster spot we're talking about, since Calder took Williams'.

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02-28-2007, 08:54 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
Those lineups do look good but there's some concerns regarding the 2nd line. Last nights game showd that Calder really does grind it up out there, but that still doesn't help much if Lang is his usual lazy self, and Bertuzzi joining him and doing the same. For anyone who claims that Bert doesn't do that, just read what just about ALL Vancouver fans are saying about him, both fans and haters alike.
Interesting point about Bert. In the interview I saw, Bert was talking about being excited to play with Dats and Hank, likening it to playing with Naslund and Morrison in Vancouver. Will his motivation be shot when he finds out he'll be on the second line with Lang and Calder/Cleary/Samuelsson?

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02-28-2007, 08:58 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
Those lineups do look good but there's some concerns regarding the 2nd line. Last nights game showd that Calder really does grind it up out there, but that still doesn't help much if Lang is his usual lazy self, and Bertuzzi joining him and doing the same. For anyone who claims that Bert doesn't do that, just read what just about ALL Vancouver fans are saying about him, both fans and haters alike.
Could you possibly be any more negative? I think not.

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02-28-2007, 08:58 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
While Williams was bad, Calder has also been bad in Philadelphia for the most part of the season. When Detroit had the Cleary, Lang, Williams trio, that line worked.
That line had about a 2 week stretch where they played well. And even during that stretch it was mostly Lang and Cleary doing all the damage.

Cmon man, dont be so stubborn. Jason Williams in another uniform is a GOOD thing. Its good.

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02-28-2007, 08:59 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Storm View Post
Lets remeber Buffalo in PO 2005-06.They had injured almost all defense.So we need more players for each position.Bertuzzi will play on the RW.In the official site he is mentioned as LW.
1st Zetta-Dats-Holm - great play this season
2nd Calder-Lang-Bert
3rd Franzen-Draper-Molt
4th Samuelsson-Hudler(or somebody else)-Cleary - no one team in NHL has this 4th line.We may play into 4 line-team in PO.And so our players will be more fresh.
Huds sits. Fil centers that line.

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02-28-2007, 09:00 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by MotownMadman View Post
Interesting point about Bert. In the interview I saw, Bert was talking about being excited to play with Dats and Hank, likening it to playing with Naslund and Morrison in Vancouver. Will his motivation be shot when he finds out he'll be on the second line with Lang and Calder/Cleary/Samuelsson?
Oh for the love of god, PLEASE read some more into cliché statements to the press.

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02-28-2007, 09:07 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
While Williams was bad, Calder has also been bad in Philadelphia for the most part of the season. When Detroit had the Cleary, Lang, Williams trio, that line worked. We simply don't know if Calder meshes well with the top two lines we have. The risk in the Bertuzzi deal is similar, we simply don't know how it'll affect the team chemistry, and we simply don't know if there'll be locker room problems because of this.

So again like I said, this has the potential to be a great trade, but it has the potential to be a bust as well... How hard is that to understand?
I forgot to comment on this earlier. It's just comedy gold. You're basically saying that unless you're completely sure that the guy you're acquiring gels immediately with your lineup, all the fans should mope and whine about how big of a risk it is. By your standard every single trade is a huge risk. "OH MY GOD, WHAT IF HE DOESN'T WORK WITH PLAYER X!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!"

Regarding Williams versus Calder... Yeah, if you look at the stats this season, Calder seems pretty crappy, but if you get yourself in the know, you'll see that he's really gotten better since Christmas and it has shown in the stats as well if you need that. So yeah, Calder is an upgrade in every concievable way compared to Williams.

You're being incredibly ridiculous about all of this. It's as if you're hell bent on being as negative as possible about every single aspect of this trade deadline for Detroit.

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02-28-2007, 09:19 AM
  #94
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You're not getting ANY of what I'm saying so it's pretty pointless to even respond, but I'l try anyway because your ranting is somewhat amusing.

Most of you guys are claiming that both Calder and Bertuzzi are AUTOMATICALLY improving the team. You're ignoring YEARS of bad behaviour both on and off the ice from Bertuzzi, writing that off as mindless hating on my side because of the Moore incident, which I already said my opinion to be that it was bad luck for everyone involved. You're ignoring the FACT that he's played a whole total of 7 games during the entire season this year, and is STILL not 100% ready to play. You're also ignoring the majority of this season going down the drain for Calder and assuming that he's instantly better in Detroit.

So while I'm saying that it has a possibility that these trades put Detroit over the top, and that there's also a high propability of yet another first roudn defeat, and in my opinion the propability for latter is greater than it is for the win. You're saying that we've already won.

And just how can you expect me to be positive when my favorite team acquires the one player I've disliked throughout his entire career? I already admitted that there's potential that he'll be great for the wings, don't ask me to like the guy.

In otherwords, it's YOU who are being ridiculous of all this.

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02-28-2007, 09:32 AM
  #95
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A lot of people were calling for an enforcer, and we sure got one. More importantly, he has the potential of strenghtening our second line. Bertuzzi is a great acquisition for the Red Wings, and definitely has the capability of giving us the much needed scoring and toughness in the playoffs. If he ends up not playing well, we don't lose much. I do not believe that Bertuzzi will be detrimental for our team in any way. On top of this, he, as well as a couple of Red Wings players (including Chelios), sounds excited about the trade. Definitely a good sign.

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02-28-2007, 09:44 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Storm View Post
Actually Smyth(as Oilers traded him) was more useful for us.He is younger and more talanted.He has big potential and scoring ability.
On the other hand, we havent got so big salary cap for Smyth.
Where do I start with this? Smyth is 31, Bertuzzi is 32, so age isn't really that different. Neither of them are exactly "young", and this is Smyth's best season, at 31, he doesn't really have anymore untapped potential, this is it. And please tell me again that Smyth is more talented than Bertuzzi. He might be scoring more goals standing in the crease, but Bertuzzi is obviously the better player.

Also, Bertuzzi costs more than Smyth. You need to check some facts before you post.

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02-28-2007, 09:55 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
You're not getting ANY of what I'm saying so it's pretty pointless to even respond, but I'l try anyway because your ranting is somewhat amusing.

Most of you guys are claiming that both Calder and Bertuzzi are AUTOMATICALLY improving the team. You're ignoring YEARS of bad behaviour both on and off the ice from Bertuzzi, writing that off as mindless hating on my side because of the Moore incident, which I already said my opinion to be that it was bad luck for everyone involved. You're ignoring the FACT that he's played a whole total of 7 games during the entire season this year, and is STILL not 100% ready to play. You're also ignoring the majority of this season going down the drain for Calder and assuming that he's instantly better in Detroit.

So while I'm saying that it has a possibility that these trades put Detroit over the top, and that there's also a high propability of yet another first roudn defeat, and in my opinion the propability for latter is greater than it is for the win. You're saying that we've already won.

And just how can you expect me to be positive when my favorite team acquires the one player I've disliked throughout his entire career? I already admitted that there's potential that he'll be great for the wings, don't ask me to like the guy.

In otherwords, it's YOU who are being ridiculous of all this.
It sounds to me that you didn't have much faith in the Wings getting far in the playoffs this year even before we got Bertuzzi. Were you hoping for Holland to acquire a player like Ryan Smyth (who you claim is more than 3 times better than Bertuzzi) to automatically turn it all around for us? No player is going to come here and automatically turn around anything. Players like Smyth would certainly have some great potential here. But so does Bertuzzi.

You seem really hung up on the idea that Bertuzzi is going to screw everything up. What's worse, a Bertuzzi not performing, or a Smyth not performing? Let me give you a hint: we would have paid a much steeper price for Smyth.

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02-28-2007, 10:04 AM
  #98
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No, I knew it'd be a long shot getting Smyth in the beginning and I doubted he'd even be available. Now that we all know that he was, I have to agree that I am dissappointed that Holland didn't go for him.

Sure enough, Detroit did get the type of players that I had hoped for and none of the soft wingers that I dreaded we might see. Yet I'd be much more comfortable with Guerin or Tkatchuk in place of Bertuzzi, mainly because of his current injury status, but partially because of his attitude. Then again Tkatchuk is known to be somewhat lazy as well and didn't Guerin snap at one of his own team mates in Dallas few years ago? And in place of Calder I would've much rather seen someone who hasn't been slumping for the most of the season already.

And you did have one thing right, I didn't have much faith in Wings getting that far, mainly because it's still essentially the same core of players, minus Shanahan and Yzerman, both of whom have been essential parts of our cup runs. On top of that everything could crumble if Hasek gets injured again, but that's a risk we all know and have learnt to live with by now.

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02-28-2007, 10:35 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by HockeyFans View Post
I was at that game. I actually gained some grudging respect for Chelios that night. What the video doesn't show is that he bounced right back up after that hit as if he was made of rubber. I've never seen a guy get up from a hit so fast. He was obviously trying to say "that didn't hurt a bit".

Then he played well the rest of the game, was named one of the three stars, and actually did his little turn on the ice, waving and smiling to the crowd as the boos rained down.

It was pretty cool.

If I recall correctly, that was the same game Cloutier let in that slapper from another time zone.

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02-28-2007, 10:43 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Borlag View Post
You're not getting ANY of what I'm saying so it's pretty pointless to even respond, but I'l try anyway because your ranting is somewhat amusing.

Most of you guys are claiming that both Calder and Bertuzzi are AUTOMATICALLY improving the team. You're ignoring YEARS of bad behaviour both on and off the ice from Bertuzzi, writing that off as mindless hating on my side because of the Moore incident, which I already said my opinion to be that it was bad luck for everyone involved. You're ignoring the FACT that he's played a whole total of 7 games during the entire season this year, and is STILL not 100% ready to play. You're also ignoring the majority of this season going down the drain for Calder and assuming that he's instantly better in Detroit.

So while I'm saying that it has a possibility that these trades put Detroit over the top, and that there's also a high propability of yet another first roudn defeat, and in my opinion the propability for latter is greater than it is for the win. You're saying that we've already won.

And just how can you expect me to be positive when my favorite team acquires the one player I've disliked throughout his entire career? I already admitted that there's potential that he'll be great for the wings, don't ask me to like the guy.

In otherwords, it's YOU who are being ridiculous of all this.
I'm taking HiHD's cue on this and saying to you that this is where we must part ways. It's too much strain on my brain to communicate with people like you. Sorry.

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