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Old
02-25-2007, 08:29 AM
  #76
Hockey MD
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Team lost because a lack of scoring, and they stopped skating. Henke maybe could have stopped one of the two, they were perfect shots, fine but this loss is not his. Henke has the potential to be better than Richter imo.

Henke has to show up every night, where the hell is the rest of the team. the defense started falling into their old habits of backing in to their zone and not standing up at the blue line, the whole team stopped skating as a whole.

With the way henke has been playing the last 18 or so games we should be in the playoffs. where is the primary scoring now? We have been getting secondary scoring.

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02-25-2007, 10:22 AM
  #77
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I haven't read the entire thread but here's my thoughts. The league might be figuring out what Lundqvist soft spot might be. Time for him to make the adjustment. And I think he will.

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02-25-2007, 10:37 AM
  #78
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This is the kind of thread I'm becoming used to seeing after every game. It's getting ridiculous. I suppose we should try and package Lundqvist and Jagr for some draft picks right? How about instead of pointing fingers we say that we lost this game because Renney refused to put the 2nd powerplay unit out there and our 1st powerplay unit either looks awesome or just plain ugly.

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02-25-2007, 10:47 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I haven't read the entire thread but here's my thoughts. The league might be figuring out what Lundqvist soft spot might be. Time for him to make the adjustment. And I think he will.
I agree, last year no one knew to much about him as far as what style/tendencies he has. This year, if you notice everyone, when given a chance goes top corner on him, he has to adjust, make some slight changes on how he defends his net, maybe like come out a little more to take the angle away and not goes to much into his butterfly.

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Old
02-25-2007, 11:34 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DontStaal View Post
today was a typical 2nd pd meltdown. I didnt see Lundqvist blow the game. He got beat on two pretty sweet shots.

Boy, I just wish we had some big, physical Dmen to give the guy a break
yes, but if he was Marty Brodeur he would have willed those shots to bang off the post. Don't you know that is the mark of a truly great goalie.

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02-25-2007, 11:43 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I haven't read the entire thread but here's my thoughts. The league might be figuring out what Lundqvist soft spot might be. Time for him to make the adjustment. And I think he will.
Singing, that has always been the issue with him. It's nothing new. I think it becomes more pronounced as he gets tired. That is where Allaire has to step in and stay on top of him. Having said that we all do recognize that 4 of the last 5 goals scored on him were deflected by his own teammates after he already was in position for the shot or had made the save.

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02-25-2007, 12:18 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by WheresBarnaby View Post
Richter was great, but if anyone thinks he never let up a bad goal, your living in a fantasy world. Those of us who lived through the "wonder years" know otherwise. Was he clutch? You bet, It's easy to look through rose colored glasses when we think back, but a brief comparison on stats shows that Henrik actually has the better numbers. Some of the goals Mike let up where pretty bad. He also made some ridiculous saves, just like #30. Get used to it, Hank's not going anywhere.

_____________________ G __W __L _GAA
TOTAL 14 NHL SEASONS 666 301 258 2.89 MIKE

TOTAL 2 NHL SEASONS 103 55 31 2.40 HANK

But what about 94' right? 68 42 12 2.57 MIKE

Hank still has the better GAA, It's the team's play in front that's the difference.
don't even go there

Richter remains the better goalie and one of the more underrated goalies of his era

after the good seasons, for YEARS he'd carry this team and it's awful defense.. then he started to break down

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Old
02-25-2007, 12:22 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by WheresBarnaby View Post
ATLANTARANGER is absolutely correct in regards to how this team needs to play. Collapse in front of Hank, and crash the oppositions net. That's how you win plain and simple. We need to block shots and attack in waves, then get back. Get dirty in front, (think Avery and Prucha)
Sounds good to me. That entails reconstructing the team though. This team isn't built on that style of play, and the guys who devour the minutes aren't buying into that kind of style. Given some of his acquisitions (Jagr and Co., Poti, the various others we can all name), I'm not even sure if its GM believes in that.

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Old
02-25-2007, 12:31 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by PruchaYeah View Post
Henke maybe could have stopped one of the two, they were perfect shots, fine but this loss is not his.
This is the logic of excuse making. If he could have made one of those saves and failed to, the loss gets tagged to him just as it gets tagged to the team in front of him. Yes they were excellent shots. Now if you wish to be called an excellent goalie, make the excellent save. It's hardly impossible. Goalies all over the league make excellent saves each and every game. As Singin wrote, if this is a weakness in his game, he needs to address it. He cannot ignore it and neither should we.

The bottom line is this. Lundqvist just had three straight games that he could have won for his team. He didn't. Is he the only one? Hardly. We can just as truthfully say that Jagr had three straight games that he might have won for his team and that he failed. The difference is that people say exactly that about Jagr and the rest of the team - see the various threads and posts in the GDTs. Lundqvist, however, is held above criticism. The merest suggestion that he's not playing well enough - not even up to the standard he set early last year - brings angry denunciations.

No one here has said Lundqvist is the reason the team has been losing.
No one here has said it's all his fault.
No one here has said he sucks.
No one here has given up on him.
No one here has said trade him.
No one here said he doesn't have potential.
No one here has said he isn't a fine goalie.

All those strawmen have been laid out, but they are all exactly that: strawmen.


Last edited by dedalus: 02-25-2007 at 02:41 PM.
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Old
02-25-2007, 12:36 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The league might be figuring out what Lundqvist soft spot might be. Time for him to make the adjustment.
Agreed. But you should be aware that saying this is a statement that Lundqvist needs to improve his game. Making such statements - even implying them - is likely to get you lynched.

Or scolded.

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02-25-2007, 12:43 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER View Post
yes, but if he was Marty Brodeur he would have willed those shots to bang off the post. Don't you know that is the mark of a truly great goalie.
Noooooooooo. One mark of a truly great goalie is his ability to make shooters consistently aim for the few spots he gives them. When he does that, surprise! More hit posts and crossbars. It's really not magic nor is it wishful thinking. Let's hope Lundqvist gets to the level that her can consistely make shooters shoot for the corners and tight spaces. That's how you make shooters look bad.

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02-25-2007, 02:27 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I haven't read the entire thread but here's my thoughts. The league might be figuring out what Lundqvist soft spot might be. Time for him to make the adjustment. And I think he will.
First, I think he is a cornerstone for the team's future, and he gives the team the opportunity to win on lots of nights. That said, he gave way too much upper net away against Columbus. I'm not talking about an almost invisible few inches under the crossbar, this was too attractive for a shooter to ignore. Watched them a few times, and I stand by this observation. The butterly position is great, and no reason for him to change his style.
But, the goalie coach should be working with him, that's what they are paid for and there are plenty of goaltenders in the league who have needed assistance from time to time, no shame in that and they appreciate it. He's no different than anyone else, he still needs to be coached on technique from time to time. Wouldn't consider trading him, he's miles away from being the problem.

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Old
02-28-2007, 10:00 AM
  #88
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It's no secret Allaire and Lundqvist go through every goal scored on him and analyze them, don't worry.

Now, this is crappy quality, but watch Sundin's OT goal vs Kiprusoff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDKsrlVFqR0

Slapper over the shoulder. It's nothing new that goalies go down early, basically every goalie in the league do it, including last season's Vezina. So did Norrena, but we tried to scramble it in along the ice instead, an area were butterfly goalies excel.

If you expect Lundqvist to save shots over the shoulder, you better ask him to grow two more arms. What do you prefer him to do, letting in softies because he is standing up longer and covering the perfect shots (and perhaps not even saving them then either), or covering the most common shots and letting in the lasers? It is the job of the defense not to let offensive players have to opportunity to make the perfect shots. If a shooter can fire a perfect shot from a good position, the defense has failed, not Lundqvist. You can hope for him to save the impossible shot, but not expect it.

If you let shooters fire perfect shots, no goalie in the world will look good and that's a fact.


Last edited by Chimp: 02-28-2007 at 10:20 AM.
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Old
02-28-2007, 10:14 AM
  #89
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The way to stop shots over the shoulder is to come further out of the net, something I assume Lundqvist will be doing more of in the future but until then we will have to settle for merely excellent goaltending.

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02-28-2007, 10:19 AM
  #90
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Well, there I can agree with you chosen. Lundqvist could become better at challenging a lone shooter by coming out of the net a little bit more often. But, as soon as there are two attackers in the zone, I prefer him not to, not until he has a defense he can trust to cut off the passing lane.

Lundqvist's style of staying deep in net does not rely on the defense to do their job, which is kind of perfect for NYR.

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02-28-2007, 11:11 AM
  #91
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Heard a interesting interview with Lundqvist a few weeks ago. He said that he were scrambling last year high on adrenaline, said that this season he just started to learn the trade.

I really like that attitude, cause I think there always are a risk with players who have a huge success early in their careers that they just try to perform, instead focusing on their development. Lundqvist is still only a soapmore, he is 25 y/o, but only broke through after he turned 20. He weren't spectacular during his WJC for example. Most goalies reach their prime 7-8 years into their NHL career.

At times last season, and in Europe, I felt Lundqvist could have a perfect balance in his game. In Europe I think it was because he simply owned the shooters, here last season I think it were because he kind of weren't "exposed". Though now I do sense a few flaws, that keeps him from getting into that zone, where he can play with a perfect balance.

During all Lundqvists tentures in the WCH, or against big name NHL goalies in the SEL, I didn't once feel he played against a more talented goalie, not even gooing up against Loungo, for me Lundqvist always outplayed thoose guys. I think Lundqvist defenitly have fell behind thoose guys, like Brodeur and Luongo. Though I defenitly have hopes, and I think we all should, that Lundqvist in 3-4 years can start competing with the best.

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02-28-2007, 11:41 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
The way to stop shots over the shoulder is to come further out of the net, something I assume Lundqvist will be doing more of in the future but until then we will have to settle for merely excellent goaltending.
Lundqvist, his last season in Europe, really owned all players that went high. It were harder to score high on him then low. I am not worried at all that high shots will be a long term problem with Lundqvist.

You are 100% right that the only way to constantly stop high shoots are to stay up longer and go out further of the net.

But shooting high shots, also got its limitations. I mean, I don't see us picking the top corners on Broduer all that often, when we get into the attacking zone we got one NJD whacking at the puck, and another NJD between the puck and the goal, the shots we get off are often through a ton of legs, or while the shooter are really pressured, and very seldom even can finnish the shooting motion without getting obstructed.

I don't belive Lundqvist are as good as Brodeur or Luongo this season, not even when playing his best hockey. But his problems on high shots origns from the fact that our D have played a really irregular game. Opertunitys to shoot the puck can arise all the time against us, from all angles ect.

Lundqvist needs to get better rythem to his game, when to come out, when to stay in, when to go down, when to stay up, but inorder to do that, he must also play behind a more consistant D.

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02-28-2007, 11:44 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
He said that he were scrambling last year high on adrenaline, said that this season he just started to learn the trade.
The way I read it: he no longer takes the stuff that made him high last year.

My suggestion: whatever it was keep on taking it! Learning how to play goal is too late...

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02-28-2007, 01:06 PM
  #94
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Question for you guys: how are the Rangers likely to handle Weekes' injury, as far as how often Lundqvist gets a rest? I've noticed he's played a ton of games in a row. Is the plan to bring in the (3rd string) goalie only when the Rangers are playing weak teams? On the one hand Lundqvist gives you a much better shot at winning every night, on the other he could be totally fried by the time the playoffs arrive if he plays too many consecutive games in Feb-March.

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02-28-2007, 01:14 PM
  #95
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Question for you guys: how are the Rangers likely to handle Weekes' injury, as far as how often Lundqvist gets a rest? I've noticed he's played a ton of games in a row. Is the plan to bring in the (3rd string) goalie only when the Rangers are playing weak teams? On the one hand Lundqvist gives you a much better shot at winning every night, on the other he could be totally fried by the time the playoffs arrive if he plays too many consecutive games in Feb-March.
From what I can see, their strategy has become ride Hank until he collapses. At this point we have nothing to lose. If by some miracle the team does make the playoffs, then he might be so worn down that he lays an egg. But there are no other options right now when every game is so crucial.

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02-28-2007, 01:43 PM
  #96
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Boy Lundqvist really sucks. That shutout is just a fluke.

I can't fathom the reasons to blame a goalie for perfect shots into the top corner just under the crossbar. You give them that area, if the shooter hits it you tip your hat to him and admit it was a nice goal. If you simpletons want him to protect the top freakin shelf then just be ready for buckets and buckets of 5 hole goals and shots along the ice. This is a butterfly goaltender (one who has been at the top of the league for over a month), and it is his style to go down... it's about percentages. Have an ounce of patience with a second year goaltender for god's sake. Let him adjust to the best league in the world.

This is so annoying considering the play we are talking about had a sniper put the puck through a defenseman's legs (who tried to keep Nash from going down the boards and behind the net because why?) move towards the middle from his off wing. He as allowed to move in alone on our goalie and he put the puck where it had to go. This is Lundqvist's fault? If Rachunek just kept him to the outside where his right handed shot would be ineffective along the left wing boards this wouldn't be a discussion.

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02-28-2007, 01:50 PM
  #97
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Anyone see him intentionally block a shot with his head yesterday? I guess he finally found a way to fight off those pesky risers

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02-28-2007, 08:45 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Boy Lundqvist really sucks. That shutout is just a fluke.
Yes. That's exactly what was said: "Lundqvist sucks!"

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02-28-2007, 11:06 PM
  #99
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Yes. That's exactly what was said: "Lundqvist sucks!"
Wow, thanks for reading that entire post and responding to just that. Thank you for addressing the issues and spurring debate.

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Old
02-28-2007, 11:37 PM
  #100
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Note his arm is still sore on that side...as a goalie that shot is stoppable, but 2 conditions are needed....

1) the shot has to be slow enough to see the puck
2) some damn good instinct/luck to move your glove BEHIND your shoulder

...5 out of 100 times i can stop those

If lundy stopped those shots he will truly be a goalie god

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