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Old
02-28-2007, 09:34 AM
  #1
bleedrngrblue
 
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Proof is in the patience...

Don't want to piss anybody off, but with all the negativity that has been hanging over this team, thought I would start a more positive thread. Its pretty apparent now that Tom Renney can be called to the carpet for alot of things, lineups,in game management,etc. In that same regard, it seems he should not be called to task on why he plays certain guys anymore, at least not nearly as often.Over the past 2 seasons, I've read alot of negative posts and comments on Marcel Hossa, and why Renney continued to stick with him. Now we all know why. Its funny though, the same folks who have NO patience for Hossa, talk about trading all the veteran players for youth. I'd hate to see these boards then. Point of fact, young players make lots of mistakes early on, and we'd see lots of em.
Alot of you saw Hossa as a waste of a roster spot, a player who would never live up to his abilities, and he still may well be that in the end, none of us knows for sure. But we do know this, for this last third of the 06-07 season, we are being treated to development camp 101....the maturation of Marcel Hossa. I want to thank Tom Renney, for sticking to his guns with a player who certainly had his difficulties adjusting, but gave small glimpses none the less, of his strength on the puck and along the boards. If nothing else good happens the rest of the way, we'll all remember this season as the season Marcel Hossa became an NHL player, and the season Tom Renney proved he knows talent, regardless of what we all think we know.

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02-28-2007, 09:39 AM
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Anthony Mauro
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Give Ranger fans a break. 9 times out of 10, the player doesn't turn out. Like we saw with Malhotra, Brendl, Lundmark etc. Hossa is proving to be a rare case. And it only helps us in the end, I don't think there is one fan out there that would rather have a protected ego than a producing machine in Hossa.

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02-28-2007, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bleedrngrblue View Post
Don't want to piss anybody off, but with all the negativity that has been hanging over this team, thought I would start a more positive thread. Its pretty apparent now that Tom Renney can be called to the carpet for alot of things, lineups,in game management,etc. In that same regard, it seems he should not be called to task on why he plays certain guys anymore, at least not nearly as often.Over the past 2 seasons, I've read alot of negative posts and comments on Marcel Hossa, and why Renney continued to stick with him. Now we all know why. Its funny though, the same folks who have NO patience for Hossa, talk about trading all the veteran players for youth. I'd hate to see these boards then. Point of fact, young players make lots of mistakes early on, and we'd see lots of em.
Alot of you saw Hossa as a waste of a roster spot, a player who would never live up to his abilities, and he still may well be that in the end, none of us knows for sure. But we do know this, for this last third of the 06-07 season, we are being treated to development camp 101....the maturation of Marcel Hossa. I want to thank Tom Renney, for sticking to his guns with a player who certainly had his difficulties adjusting, but gave small glimpses none the less, of his strength on the puck and along the boards. If nothing else good happens the rest of the way, we'll all remember this season as the season Marcel Hossa became an NHL player, and the season Tom Renney proved he knows talent, regardless of what we all think we know.
Yes and no.

Hossa's talent was never an issue or ever questioned. It was his heart and how hard he worked on the ice that were. And if you don't have that, talent doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to results. Now that he seems to be matching the two together, it's a joy to watch.

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02-28-2007, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Yes and no.

Hossa's talent was never an issue or ever questioned. It was his heart and how hard he worked on the ice that were. And if you don't have that, talent doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to results. Now that he seems to be matching the two together, it's a joy to watch.
Agreed SBOB.

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02-28-2007, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
Give Ranger fans a break. 9 times out of 10, the player doesn't turn out. Like we saw with Malhotra, Brendl, Lundmark etc. Hossa is proving to be a rare case. And it only helps us in the end, I don't think there is one fan out there that would rather have a protected ego than a producing machine in Hossa.
I am a Ranger fan. What is your point? Mine is that Renney has done a far better job of assessing talent than we've given him credit for. Balej.........a bust,Garth Murray.....fringe NHLer,................Lundmark...., Fed Fed..... all shipped off after Renney got a look at them,need I say more. He put alot of faith in Hossa, and most of us questioned it. He obviously saw something. As to your 9 times out of 10 theory, I beg to differ, Renney hasn't been wrong yet as far as I can tell, with one exception, Umberger, and that was a character issue, so I can't even fault him for that.

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02-28-2007, 11:25 AM
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Hossa has 10 goals this year. His MO is to go on hot streaks like this and then disappear for 20 games. I wish him all the luck in the world, and playing on a line with JJ is an oppurtunity of a lifetime for him. That said, I will stay unconvinced of "Hossa turning the corner" until the end of the season. He sure has looked real good this month though. His work along the boards and his willingness to go to the dirty areas has been very impressive. Keep it up Marcel!!!

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02-28-2007, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by happy hour View Post
Hossa has 10 goals this year. His MO is to go on hot streaks like this and then disappear for 20 games. I wish him all the luck in the world, and playing on a line with JJ is an oppurtunity of a lifetime for him. That said, I will stay unconvinced of "Hossa turning the corner" until the end of the season. He sure has looked real good this month though. His work along the boards and his willingness to go to the dirty areas has been very impressive. Keep it up Marcel!!!
This doesn't look like a hot streak to me. And he's NEVER been this hot as a Ranger. Add to that the fact that he's been a bull along the boards all season, and I think its the real payoff here. I don't expect him to score 50 goals, but there is no reason this guy can't be a 25-30 goal scorer, if he continues to work hard on the ice and put himself in a position to succeed. He is finally , I believe, breaking out of his brothers shadow.

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02-28-2007, 11:53 AM
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Jagr started playing?

Clearly Jagr played differently last night and there was an impact. He was back-checking a bit, skating hard to the puck and even getting into the low-slot.

I've been wondering for weeks (months?) if he was hurt, because he just has not been the same player as last year. Watching last night it became obvious that he has the werewithal to change the momentum of a game, as he did often last season.

So, why now? Has he been sulking because of Ward? Did he get a fire under his butt because of some unsubstantiated trade talk?

What gives? And what is it going to take to get the consistent greatness required for us to make the playoffs?

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02-28-2007, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TrappedinNJ View Post
Clearly Jagr played differently last night and there was an impact. He was back-checking a bit, skating hard to the puck and even getting into the low-slot.

What gives? And what is it going to take to get the consistent greatness required for us to make the playoffs?
Sometimes Jagr plays hard, sometimes he doesn't. Last night he played hard. Next game? Roll the dice, your guess is as good as anyone's.

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02-28-2007, 12:13 PM
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jagr played hard last night?

fooled me.. he kept waiting by the habs blue line while they were on a rush

jagr is easy to figure out.. he only turns it on when he has the pick, probably why its been much easier to neutralize him this year

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02-28-2007, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Yes and no.

Hossa's talent was never an issue or ever questioned. It was his heart and how hard he worked on the ice that were. And if you don't have that, talent doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to results. Now that he seems to be matching the two together, it's a joy to watch.

Do you watch the games? Hossa's effort could not be questioned this year. He continued to work hard even when his output suffered. That is a joke that you question his work ethic. He is one of the handful of rangers that went to the net and continually played the puck in the corners as tough as anyone on the team. He wasn't given a chance to play on the top line, how much could he do with betts centering him.

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02-28-2007, 12:18 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
Give Ranger fans a break. 9 times out of 10, the player doesn't turn out. Like we saw with Malhotra, Brendl, Lundmark etc. Hossa is proving to be a rare case. And it only helps us in the end, I don't think there is one fan out there that would rather have a protected ego than a producing machine in Hossa.
My only quibble with you is that I think Malhotra has turned into a nice player that I wish we still had.

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02-28-2007, 12:25 PM
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I can vouch for SBoB...

he doesn't watch any games (sorry, it's one of my favorite lines people use in this forum and still makes me chuckle).

I think you can question Hossa's desire at times this season, much less obvious than last season though - very much less. Glad to see he's paying off currently.

I never thought his greatest weakness is his ability to recognize a bust or talent. It seems very often that balancing youth with vets and realizing that talent at times and getting the best out of his lineup have been his greatest weakness.

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02-28-2007, 12:31 PM
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Hossa is one of if not the only player on the Rangers that I notice night in and night out. He uses his size and works harder down deep than anyone on the team and draws a good amount of penalties. I've been reading this board for about half of this season and even when Hossa was playing on the 3rd line and not scoring very often I still noticed how good he was down along the boards, but for some reason it seemed that everyone hated him because he wasn't scoring i guess. Now he gets put on the top line and he starts scoring and he's everyones favorite player. If you haven't noticed he's been doing this all along, he just wasn't playing with the caliber of players as nylander and jagr. Another thing that the majority of people on this board seem to forget is that the Rangers SUCKED and I mean they were terrible for about 7 years. Last season Mr. Renney came in and we finally made the playoffs and were at least competitive once again. Just because hes made some stupid decisions this year, don't forget he was the guy that got us back on the map again.

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02-28-2007, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
he doesn't watch any games (sorry, it's one of my favorite lines people use in this forum and still makes me chuckle).

I think you can question Hossa's desire at times this season, much less obvious than last season though - very much less. Glad to see he's paying off currently.

I never thought his greatest weakness is his ability to recognize a bust or talent. It seems very often that balancing youth with vets and realizing that talent at times and getting the best out of his lineup have been his greatest weakness.
Thanks Fletch. I responded but then thought better of it.

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02-28-2007, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post

It seems very often that balancing youth with vets and realizing that talent at times and getting the best out of his lineup have been his greatest weakness.
That could be sad about any coach. Those with ability usually make an excellent GMs.
In all fairness MTL didn't have patience either. Or they wanted Kovy badly, it's hard to say. Hossa reminds Kovalev a lot to me, BTW. I hope his tenure at NYR will be by far more productive...

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02-28-2007, 12:48 PM
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Not sure about any coach...

Nolan's an example I've used of a guy who gets the most out of his players. He gets them to play everynight, and gets them to play his style. Julien's another. Ruff is another, among many others. Renney doesn't get that every night. We're so often quick to blame the players, but at some point the coach needs to be somewhat responsible. Like the coach saying, we need to shoot more on the PP, and in the next several games the PP looks exactly the same. Not sure if that's coaching or just hoping things go right with what he's got.

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02-28-2007, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Nolan's an example I've used of a guy who gets the most out of his players. He gets them to play everynight, and gets them to play his style. Julien's another. Ruff is another, among many others. Renney doesn't get that every night. We're so often quick to blame the players, but at some point the coach needs to be somewhat responsible. Like the coach saying, we need to shoot more on the PP, and in the next several games the PP looks exactly the same. Not sure if that's coaching or just hoping things go right with what he's got.
It's deferring to your captain and star player, who doesn't want them to shoot more on the power play.

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02-28-2007, 12:50 PM
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Fletch
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On Hossa, 94...

I think MTL had patience, but had Hossa for a longer period of time. He was a guy who had the skill level and size and that should've translated into better results if he played with the desire necessary. After a couple seasons, it was the same-ol, same-ol and they thought they had enough of that type of player and moved him for a different type (who's actually starting to work out for them of late too, funny enough). Had Hossa not broken out now, I doubt we see next season and he could still flourish. You gotta cut the strings at some point, and that's the key, at which point.

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02-28-2007, 12:51 PM
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dave..

I understand what it 'is', just suggesting that a coach still needs to coach. If he's a babysitter, then he's not a coach.

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02-28-2007, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
It's deferring to your captain and star player, who doesn't want them to shoot more on the power play.
Speaking of our captain and leadership skills...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2781178

"Tonight would not have been the same without Wayne being here," Messier said. "Wayne was our leader. He was our inspiration. He was the guy we leaned on and he never let us down and never put himself above anybody."

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02-28-2007, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Nolan's an example I've used of a guy who gets the most out of his players. He gets them to play everynight, and gets them to play his style. Julien's another. Ruff is another, among many others. Renney doesn't get that every night.
I disagree. The success of those coaches is based on... yes, good goaltending. somehow you managed to pick up a group with good netminders on the roster. Once you've got a goal taken care of, once team is winning then coaching looks great, lineup seems balanced and players look motivated.
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Like the coach saying, we need to shoot more on the PP, and in the next several games the PP looks exactly the same.
No one knows what he actually says to players. Lots of what Renney says is a PR. I can bet my money that most hockey pros know that fans are ignorant about the game, so the best way to deal with them is just treat them like a mushrooms: keep'em in the dark, feed'em crap. Fans want more shooting. It is entertaining. It is boring to watch passes. We make sure that we send their message to the players. That's it.
It is counterproductive if not plain stupid to jeopardize the puck possession by shooting it at defender. If the defending team plays correctly, the is no way for the puck to reach the open part of the net. You need to move the puck up until defenders give you that opening. Those who want players to shoot the puck on PP I suggest go watch some high school or even college hockey. Renney will loose his job if he says what I sad.

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02-28-2007, 01:58 PM
  #23
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94...

in reference to the PP, I don't care what he said to his players. It's the actions on the ice and the players are not 100% responsible for their actions on the ice - a coach is somewhat responsible. If Pock goes out there and makes bonehead play after bonehead play, I don't expect Renney to say stop doing that and it happens, I expect a replacement. If the PP is not working how he wants to work it, then he needs to change it around, or change the personnel around, or change the way he allocates the PP ice time. Not go out there with the same group of give night-in and night-out and wait until the same PP gets it right finally. He did change it around, and it seemed to get better - I credit Renney for the better PP of late, not the players involved in it.

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02-28-2007, 03:37 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
in reference to the PP, I don't care what he said to his players. It's the actions on the ice and the players are not 100% responsible for their actions on the ice - a coach is somewhat responsible. If Pock goes out there and makes bonehead play after bonehead play, I don't expect Renney to say stop doing that and it happens, I expect a replacement. If the PP is not working how he wants to work it, then he needs to change it around, or change the personnel around, or change the way he allocates the PP ice time. Not go out there with the same group of give night-in and night-out and wait until the same PP gets it right finally. He did change it around, and it seemed to get better - I credit Renney for the better PP of late, not the players involved in it.
I agree wholeheartedly Fletch. As to the point I was trying to make earlier, while Renney is not really a good strategist in game, he seems to have a good feel for talent, and in that regard, maybe he should be moved upstairs and a new coach brought in at some point. He has had alot of strategic failures wether its lineups or in game adjustments, he just seems to be lacking in those areas. I think guys like Ruff and Nolan not only get the most out of their players, they also make the necessary adjustments to lineups etc in game.

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Old
02-28-2007, 04:04 PM
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I said something similar...

somewhere, although I'm not sure where or exactly what (it's been a long day). Renney can recognize problems. He sees and analyzes the game very well. His solutions may not always be right, his ability to get people to do what he asks isn't always great, and his adjustments during the game could be better. But like with so many things in this organization, people aren't always used to their best potential.

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