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my view from section 236

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Old
02-28-2007, 01:39 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
Everything renews in time but this one could take quite a bit of it.
Yeah. Its kind of like the revulsion I feel for the Eskimos under Macciocia. When you've lost all faith in the handling of the team it becomes much harder to be resilient.

Klowe has zero credibility right now.

I have that worst of all feelings as a fan where you now want this to hit bottom so real substantive changes are made.

I want Klowe fired.

I don't typically say that.

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02-28-2007, 01:39 AM
  #27
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I believe they also alluded to the idea that some teams had already stated they weren't interested in moving players that Lowe was interested in.

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02-28-2007, 01:41 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Yeah. Its kind of like the revulsion I feel for the Eskimos under Macciocia. When you've lost all faith in the handling of the team it becomes much harder to be resilient.

Klowe has zero credibility right now.

I have that worst of all feelings as a fan where you now want this to hit bottom so real substantive changes are made.

I want Klowe fired.

I don't typically say that.
Lowe made the right decision in making the trade given the circumstances but a lot could have been done to mitigate those circumstances prior to this season.

As such, even though I will criticize him for making mistakes, I will also give him credit for not compounding a mistake already made by making another mistake.

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02-28-2007, 01:48 AM
  #29
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Lowe made the right decision in making the trade given the circumstances but a lot could have been done to mitigate those circumstances prior to this season.

As such, even though I will criticize him for making mistakes, I will also give him credit for not compounding a mistake already made by making another mistake.
I can't even agree with this. Especially given that the return we got for Smyth is negligible. An insult really. I fully expect little future impact of this deal. Certainly not one that makes us a better team.

Removing certain players from the locker room is done at huge cost. Klowe of all people should be more than aware of that.

This is just ugly deja vu and Klowe should have had the deal done a long time ago.

In the end is it worse at this point to pay more for smytty or blow up the goodwill faith of the team?

The good medicine isn't tasting too well in the dressingroom either I bet.

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02-28-2007, 01:50 AM
  #30
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I can't even agree with this. Especially given that the return we got for Amyth is negligible. An insult really. I fully expect little future impact of this deal. Certainly not one that makes us a better team.

Removing certain players from the locker room is done at huge cost. Klowe of all people should be more than aware of that.

This is just ugly deja vu and Klowe should have had the deal done a long time ago.

In the end is it worse at this point to pay more for smytty or blow up the goodwill faith of the team?

The good medicine isn't tasting too well in the dressingroom either I bet.
I am sure Philly fans could say the same thing.

That is what you get when you trade an UFA, you get futures.

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02-28-2007, 01:52 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I can't even agree with this. Especially given that the return we got for Smyth is negligible. An insult really. I fully expect little future impact of this deal. Certainly not one that makes us a better team.

Removing certain players from the locker room is done at huge cost. Klowe of all people should be more than aware of that.

This is just ugly deja vu and Klowe should have had the deal done a long time ago.

In the end is it worse at this point to pay more for smytty or blow up the goodwill faith of the team?

The good medicine isn't tasting too well in the dressingroom either I bet.
In the end I believe the $$ simply weren't there (that's not Lowe's fault, but the overpayment may have been) and/or the term wasn't agreed upon (props to dawgbone! ). It just may not have been possible to sign him.

I'll agree that the return may not have been the best possible.

In the end I think Lowe bit the bullet and made a trade that had to be made. Which is a shame, and that's what gets me the most. Damn.

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02-28-2007, 01:54 AM
  #32
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Look hockeyaddict101, if this team would just hit them and not look at them, everything would be fine, Smitty or no Smitty.

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02-28-2007, 02:00 AM
  #33
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Removing certain players from the locker room is done at huge cost. Klowe of all people should be more than aware of that.
I'm sure he was.

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02-28-2007, 02:01 AM
  #34
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I'm sure he was.
Then he knows he's Pocklington now.

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02-28-2007, 02:08 AM
  #35
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Then he knows he's Pocklington now.
I think it's the opposite actually.

Pocklington made a selfish deal without regard to the franchise.

Lowe basically sacrificed his "popularity" and reputation in the eyes of many fans by making a deal with complete regard to the franchise.

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02-28-2007, 02:10 AM
  #36
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Then he knows he's Pocklington now.
I'm sure he knows he's not popular. But I agree with Cloned's assessment.

He knew full well what it would mean to his reputation in the city if he traded Smyth. He alluded to it in the weeks leading up to the deadline. He also knew it meant being an observer from the shadows during the celebration of Mark Messier's career as an Oiler.

In my opinion, that adds an interesting perspective on the situation. He had a ton of emotional reasons NOT to trade Ryan Smyth, and still did it. And unlike Pocklington, there doesn't seem to be an immediate personal interest for Kevin Lowe (in the line of 15 million dollars for struggling outside businesses like Pocklington).

It seems clear Lowe was willing to put his reputation on the line to make this trade. Not bad for a guy that was accused of being a giant softy and buckling at every deal at the slightest inkling of adversity.


I'll reserve my judgement until the offseason.

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02-28-2007, 02:20 AM
  #37
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Seems pretty ironic that almost all of the people who chew Lowe's butt for overpaying what they consider hardworking grinders on the roster are upset that he's not overpaying hardworking grinder #1 (Smyth). Not much consistency here folks......I'm not a Lowe fanboy - but even I've got to say that no one will play chicken with him again any time soon again on contracts. He'll take heat again like the infamous tirades over Niinimaa and Carter - but funny how the people who were flipping out and crying gloom and doom completely forgot about that after the wheels fell of Janne's game and Carter turned into one large velvet bag of crap. A lot of people were calling Lowe a moron and inept after those trades - but hindsight cuts both ways - and we all remember who was sure that trading Janne and Carter was wrong even if they don't - and most of these same folks are squaking about the Smyth deal.......

Like I said in other threads - if we don't acquire 2 big-time players this summer given all the prospects, picks and salary space we have - then we are operating on the Blackhawak model. EIG will be the real villan in that case and I'll happily watch my college football team that has a Heisman candiate quarterback and forget about hockey for a while.


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02-28-2007, 02:57 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Asiaoil View Post
Seems pretty ironic that almost all of the people who chew Lowe's butt for overpaying what they consider hardworking grinders on the roster are upset that he's not overpaying hardworking grinder #1 (Smyth). Not much consistency here folks......I'm not a Lowe fanboy - but even I've got to say that no one will play chicken with him again any time soon again on contracts. He'll take heat again like the infamous tirades over Niinimaa and Carter - but funny how the people who were flipping out and crying gloom and doom completely forgot about that after the wheels fell of Janne's game and Carter turned into one large velvet bag of crap. A lot of people were calling Lowe a moron and inept after those trades - but hindsight cuts both ways - and we all remember who was sure that trading Janne and Carter was wrong even if they don't - and most of these same folks are squaking about the Smyth deal.......

Like I said in other threads - if we don't acquire 2 big-time players this summer given all the prospects, picks and salary space we have - then we are operating on the Blackhawak model. EIG will be the real villan in this case and I'll happily watch my college football team that has a Heisman candiate quarterback and forget about hockey for a while.
Agreed on both paragraphs, especially on the second.

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02-28-2007, 09:13 AM
  #39
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I think that the Oilers got excellent return for Smyth. I know it's tough right now, but the sun comes up tomorrow and Lowe made the right decision for the long run. Ryan Smyth is not superstar and I guarantee you would be whining if he was signed for $6million.

BTW My favorite player was traded today.

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02-28-2007, 09:49 AM
  #40
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It's not like we're getting a high end player in return either that can lessen the blow. As good as the prospects may possibly turn out, you can't replace 12 years of fans emotion like that.
I completely agree!!! It would have been nice to get players that can play now in combination with draft picks.

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02-28-2007, 10:33 AM
  #41
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i'm sure this negativity towards lowe will change if he were to acquire some solid players off the free-agent market...lets wait to see what he does there because that is his strategy...if we get nobody then lowe deserves to get destroyed...

but i believe he made the right move...on another note, i liked how lowe was hiding out in the pressbox for the ceremony...ahahaha...

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02-28-2007, 11:24 AM
  #42
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Lowe has been criticized on this board all year for overpaying Pisani and Horcoff when if he didn't the response we are witnessing today would have taken place last summer instead of now. He overpaid then because the team couldn't take another bodyblow after Pronger (that and the fact that you must always 'overpay' for players headed to UFA) and apparently he was prepared to overpay this time as well. Except Meehan and Smyth overplayed their hand.

Lowe has made it very clear that he has been wrestling with this since last summer when negotiations broke off with Meehan. Smyth made it abundantly clear that he was unwilling to play here for one cent less than market value for a UFA. Unlike Tucker in Toronto, for example.

IMO Lowe has taken one for the team. Smyth was given bad advice by his agent and this is the result. And I disagree with whoever said the team told Lowe to stay away from the ceremony. Lowe decided to stay away from the ceremony and I'll bet it really hurt that he ended up paying for this by not being able to be on the ice with his friend Mark. Sweater retirements are the pinnacle for retired players and Lowe graciously bowed out in order to make sure that him doing his job did not detract from it.

In the end Smyth let greed outweigh other considerations. Although I think that planning Messier retirement night for the tradeline showed a lack of thought and planning I don't think Lowe could have traded Smyth last summer given the Pronger debacle. And those that say Smyth should have been the number one priority ignore the fact that Lowe tried to sign Smyth last summer and in fact did sign the contracts he thought the team could live with. Smyth's wasn't on that list. Whose fault is that?

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02-28-2007, 12:56 PM
  #43
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Your post is pretty much bang on. Lowe put himself in an absolutely dreadful position. You could make strong arguments that:

a) Lowe overpayed for lesser members of this team in the offseason and that hindered his ability to sign Smyth; and

b) Lowe didn't get the best offer possible because he didn't offer Smyth to all teams

The irony is this:

If you view the Smyth deal independent of those factors, it basically had to be done. Signing him to a 5.5-6M contract would have handicapped this team with regards to budget for years to come.
How does having a 6Million dollar player handicap a team? Last i looked the flames have some high priced talent and they're doing pretty good. Heck, the ducks have 13 or 14 million tied up in 2 players on their blueline! Add in Selanne and nearly half their payroll is in 3 players!

Lowe could have signed Smytty to an inflated contract, got rid of some of his bad contracts he signed this past summer and develop our youth.

Basically he chose keeping guys like Rollie/Pisani/Moreau/Staios/Horcoff/Sykora over smyth. Either way, if we deal a couple of those guys we get prospects and are probably not as good of a team in the short run (like we are now), but we have smytty (like we don't)

everyone's making a big deal about how he's not worht it 5 years form now to pay him 5.5 or 6 mil. Well 5 years from now, the cap will be higher than it is now, and I bet he'll be looking pretty good at that price.

And the fact everyone is hanging smyth out to dry cuz Tencer said he turned down a great offer is bull. Where is Tencer getting his info? It's total hearsay. On top of all that, Lowe said it was not a financial decision! They why is everyone saying he did ok because of the finances involved!

As someone pointed out, our fanbase has been kicked in the teeth for the past 9 months ever since we went down 2-1 in game 7 basically. And we all had faith in KLowe, but now even he turned on us and kicked us in the teeth. It's like a bad wrestling storyline...

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