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NFL Discussion Thread V (Surgery for Eli; Jets sign CJ2K)

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Old
04-03-2014, 03:30 PM
  #876
slipknottin
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Originally Posted by Bird Law View Post
Sure you did.

By saying that the media is always behind the scouts and the media is always wrong and that the scouts always knew Bortles was a top pick presupposes that you know what the scouts are saying and that you have some special insight into the scouting world.
The media is always behind, thats obvious. Unless you think the media has positioned themselves inside all the teams draft rooms.

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Scouts do change opinions quite often. You can look at the ISS and Redline in hockey for that if you want. There's normally quite a bit of movement over the course of a season. Scouts do not have static rankings for players. They will change their views on a player over the course of a year.
They do change their opinions over the course of the year (years)

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Funnily enough, Bortles improved quite a bit during the year. He took a big step forward as a legitimate NFL prospect. So it's absolutely logical to think that scouts' opinions of Bortles changed as he progressed. And he played even better on a national stage in his bowl game. Everything Bortles did over the course of the year raised his stock. He went from a horrendous conference to a below average one and his play actually improved quite a bit.
Correct, and the media lagged behind in recognizing that, keeping him as a 2nd rounder or perhaps worse until just recently.

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This isn't something crazy. Bortles has raised his stock in the eyes of everyone significantly. Scouts included.
And bridgewater has lowered his.

This is not some mystery that guys cant change. I never said otherwise.

What I did say is if post combine/proday a guy magically goes from top 5 to 2nd round pick, then it didnt happen like that on scouts boards. Scouts were already higher or lower on him than the media was reporting, and the change in the media represents that.

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04-04-2014, 12:04 AM
  #877
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If Bridgewater falls to 12 I hope Reese takes him.

I think he's clearly the best QB in the draft & 2nd best player available.

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04-04-2014, 12:19 AM
  #878
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What anonymous scouts say, a lot of the time, is posturing. If you want to take Bridgewater but you're picking late in the first round, it would only make sense to put out information that you weren't impressed, so you can potentially lower his value. We can only know what teams really think on draft day.

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04-04-2014, 12:43 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by NYGBleedBlueNYR View Post
If Bridgewater falls to 12 I hope Reese takes him.

I think he's clearly the best QB in the draft & 2nd best player available.
I'd be shocked if we picked him even if he is BPA.

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04-04-2014, 07:44 AM
  #880
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Originally Posted by NYGBleedBlueNYR View Post
If Bridgewater falls to 12 I hope Reese takes him.

I think he's clearly the best QB in the draft & 2nd best player available.
even if he was the best qb in the draft, hes still not better than robinson or clowney.

Robinson may be the best OL prospect in the past 10 years, its rather stunning how underrated he is, even though he is often counted as a top 5 prospect

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04-04-2014, 08:29 AM
  #881
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
even if he was the best qb in the draft, hes still not better than robinson or clowney.

Robinson may be the best OL prospect in the past 10 years, its rather stunning how underrated he is, even though he is often counted as a top 5 prospect
There is always "the best OL prospect in the past 10 years" in every draft.

He's an athletic freak and has all the tools to be a dominant OL. Still a bit raw, however.

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04-04-2014, 10:07 AM
  #882
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Kiper has the Jets grabbing Cooks, Amaro and Purifoy in the first three rounds. I'd be really happy with that.

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04-04-2014, 10:10 AM
  #883
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
even if he was the best qb in the draft, hes still not better than robinson or clowney.

Robinson may be the best OL prospect in the past 10 years, its rather stunning how underrated he is, even though he is often counted as a top 5 prospect
I love Robinson but

I have a real hard time anointing him that high historically with the fact that he rarely pass blocked & usually had opponents that were confused & reacting more than attacking him.

He's still an unknown quantity of sorts.

Don't get me wrong, he's a stud prospect.

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04-04-2014, 10:13 AM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Bird Law View Post
I'd be shocked if we picked him even if he is BPA.
I would be shocked as well.

Reese clearly is trying to win now.

But with them not extending Eli he can be cut after this season if he plays like last year.

I'm hoping Eli really shines with a new OC but I wouldn't be mad if drafted the future.

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04-04-2014, 11:12 AM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYGBleedBlueNYR View Post
I love Robinson but

I have a real hard time anointing him that high historically with the fact that he rarely pass blocked & usually had opponents that were confused & reacting more than attacking him.

He's still an unknown quantity of sorts.

Don't get me wrong, he's a stud prospect.
There's no way Robinson is he best LT prospect in a decade, anyway. That's just absurd. He's very good, but he's not even much better a prospect than Lewan or Matthews. I like Robinson's upside the best, but Lewan is a better player now AND more athletic now. Matthews is much more polished than either. They are all great prospects and it's hard to say who will be best.

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04-04-2014, 11:13 AM
  #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
There is always "the best OL prospect in the past 10 years" in every draft.

He's an athletic freak and has all the tools to be a dominant OL. Still a bit raw, however.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Kiper has the Jets grabbing Cooks, Amaro and Purifoy in the first three rounds. I'd be really happy with that.
That's a hell of a draft if it comes out that way.

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04-04-2014, 11:58 AM
  #887
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Any chance the Giants grab Chris Johnson?

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04-04-2014, 12:17 PM
  #888
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NYG signed vet TE Kellen Davis. I always thought he was a bit underrated all around TE. A bit old though.

Supposedly interested in Johnson. I'd hate to tie up much more $ in RB situation.

This draft can't get here soon enough. Can't believe it's another month still.

Bucs traded Williams so everyone thinks they're eyeing Evans.

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04-04-2014, 12:57 PM
  #889
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The Giants are a really good DE or DT prospect away from being a potential top defense.

But I think they go TE or WR at 12.

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04-04-2014, 12:59 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Any chance the Giants grab Chris Johnson?
I hope not.

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04-04-2014, 01:05 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by Bird Law View Post
There's no way Robinson is he best LT prospect in a decade, anyway. That's just absurd. He's very good, but he's not even much better a prospect than Lewan or Matthews. I like Robinson's upside the best, but Lewan is a better player now AND more athletic now. Matthews is much more polished than either. They are all great prospects and it's hard to say who will be best.
Lewan is not even in the same ballpark.

Lewan despite his reputation as a nasty player is nowhere close to being a mauler. He's a finesse player who is dirty.

Lewan being more athletic is just flat wrong.


Robinson will be a hall of fame guard.

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04-04-2014, 01:08 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Any chance the Giants grab Chris Johnson?
Not unless Wilson doesn't get cleared and Johnson is still available

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04-04-2014, 05:22 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
The Giants are a really good DE or DT prospect away from being a potential top defense.

But I think they go TE or WR at 12.
Don't forget a LB who can cover.

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04-08-2014, 10:31 AM
  #894
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http://www.bigblueview.com/2014/4/8/...ckham#comments

I picked Odell Beckham Jr. for the Jets in the BBV community mock. Selected him over Lee and Cooks.

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04-08-2014, 03:57 PM
  #895
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Chris Johnson flying to Newark to meet with Jets and Giants. Has meeting with Jets first.

It would definitely be incredibly demoralizing to have two potential solid free agents come in for meetings only to leave the following day to sign with cross town rivals.

Johnson is an incredibly electric running back. He shies away from contact, rarely attacks the hole because of this, but has an incredible ability to break open and make big time plays.

I'd love a Johnson-Ivory backfield.

It would be sad watching the Giants, who apparently had 0 cap space to begin with this offseason, come in and steal him away.

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04-08-2014, 03:59 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by Bird Law View Post
http://www.bigblueview.com/2014/4/8/...ckham#comments

I picked Odell Beckham Jr. for the Jets in the BBV community mock. Selected him over Lee and Cooks.
He's short. He projects as a slot receiver. We have a guy who is already a very serviceable slot receiver.

I'd love a bigger guy. Evans really escalated his draft stock. I was hoping he'd slip to us. No chance now.

Lee is 6'0. He'd have been a top draft pick if he had been able to enter the draft last year. I'm higher on him, as a need that we need to fill, rather than Cooks/ODB.

Then again, be wary of USC guys, right?

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04-08-2014, 04:27 PM
  #897
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He's short. He projects as a slot receiver. We have a guy who is already a very serviceable slot receiver.

I'd love a bigger guy. Evans really escalated his draft stock. I was hoping he'd slip to us. No chance now.

Lee is 6'0. He'd have been a top draft pick if he had been able to enter the draft last year. I'm higher on him, as a need that we need to fill, rather than Cooks/ODB.

Then again, be wary of USC guys, right?
You already have a big guy. Decker.

And OBJ isn't necessarily a slot guy. He's a guy you can line up all over the field and is a big time speed threat. He's only slightly slower than Cooks, for example.

Lee doesn't have the athleticism of OBJ. He's a bit more polished, but OBJ has a fair bit more potential.

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04-08-2014, 04:33 PM
  #898
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You already have a big guy. Decker.

And OBJ isn't necessarily a slot guy. He's a guy you can line up all over the field and is a big time speed threat. He's only slightly slower than Cooks, for example.

Lee doesn't have the athleticism of OBJ. He's a bit more polished, but OBJ has a fair bit more potential.
I think there is one prospect that solidifies your opinion of ODB being a better fit for the Jets than a guy like Evans or Lee.

Marty Morninghweg and also the Seahawks offense. Eagles had a fast and durable offense under MM. McCoy, Jackson, Maclin, Cooper, Vick. Fast guys, not necessarily big, speed kills mentality.

Seattle, built their receiver corps through the like of speed guys like Tate and Harvin.

Seems like the mold that the GM came from and that the OC is familiar with is that of smaller, speedier, receivers.

ODB and Cooks fit that mold better than Lee and certainly better than Evans. Decker helps with physicality, I doubt they go for another guy.

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04-08-2014, 04:50 PM
  #899
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets drafted a player other than a WR in the first round.

Last year, many mocks projected the Jets selecting Geno Smith with one of their picks. By the time the draft rolled around, he was still projected as the 1st overall QB taken off the board, by many, but other QB prospects had began to move up in hype.

A similar phenomenon is happening with some WR's, Marquise Lee being one of the guys slipping.

Lee is in a similar position to Geno last year. Loads of potential on a team that underperformed with him at the helm.

And he's slipping.

The Jets were linked to a QB at the draft all year last year. Geno was the guy that many predicted. They picked two defensive players before they even went on to Geno at the 2nd round last year. He slipped right to them.

Jets could take a guy we aren't even expecting. An OLB perhaps? A TE? An offensive lineman? I think it's highly unlikely that we find ourselves taking a WR in the first. And I think Marquise Lee is slipping to the point where he may even be available in the middle of the 2nd round.

Many WR's are moving up boards. Allen Robinson, Jordan Matthews, Odell Beckham, Brandon Cooks. Lee isn't being talked about in the same light anymore.

I'm expecting the Jets to draft either a OLB, CB, or TE in the first round, depending on who slips. Lee (or another WR), I expect, will be taken by them in the 2nd round.

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04-08-2014, 04:53 PM
  #900
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If no one picks the QB by Giants pick, you either draft the BPA non QB, or trade down to the team that wants him.

The Giants are committed to Eli the same way NYR are to Henrik. Perhaps more.

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