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NFL Discussion Thread V (Surgery for Eli; Jets sign CJ2K)

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Old
04-08-2014, 05:34 PM
  #901
Bird Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
If no one picks the QB by Giants pick, you either draft the BPA non QB, or trade down to the team that wants him.

The Giants are committed to Eli the same way NYR are to Henrik. Perhaps more.
If only Eli was on Hank's level.

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04-08-2014, 05:54 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Bird Law View Post
If only Eli was on Hank's level.
I'd call Eli the Chris Osgood of football.

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Old
04-09-2014, 08:46 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I'd call Eli the Chris Osgood of football.
I get the comparison, but don't really think it's fair. It was on the strength of his arm that we scored 2 touchdowns in the 4th quarter against NE in 2007. In 2011, he basically carried the team as they had no running game to speak of.

This past year was a down year for him, no question, but lets fix our offensive line issues and then see how it goes.

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04-09-2014, 08:50 AM
  #904
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As a Jet Fan, I don't like ODB over Cooks and Lee. I'd rank the WRs

1. Watkins
2. Evans
3. Lee
4. Cooks
5. ODB

I think there's a large gap between Evans and Lee, and a gap between Cooks and ODB. I prefer Lee over Cooks, but I would understand if the Jets took Cooks instead if both were on the board.

I'd be livid if they took ODB over both.

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Old
04-09-2014, 12:18 PM
  #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
As a Jet Fan, I don't like ODB over Cooks and Lee. I'd rank the WRs

1. Watkins
2. Evans
3. Lee
4. Cooks
5. ODB

I think there's a large gap between Evans and Lee, and a gap between Cooks and ODB. I prefer Lee over Cooks, but I would understand if the Jets took Cooks instead if both were on the board.

I'd be livid if they took ODB over both.
It's definitely a possibility, considering our special teams coordinator is from LSU and could give a glowing recommendation if he liked him and was asked about him.

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04-09-2014, 12:27 PM
  #906
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I'm really starting to think we don't take a WR in the first round unless Evans slips.

There is so much talent associated with this year's draft at the WR spot. To believe that ODB jumped ahead of Lee and Cooks in terms of hype and draft projection is absurd.

Just 3 months ago, I watched a few LSU games in succession, and liked Jarvis Landry more than Beckham. Landry is a 3-4 rd pick.

I love Jordan Matthews too, and he's projected to go mid 2nd, early 3rd. Ripe for the Jets 2nd round pick.

Not to mention, skill players oftentimes get unrealistically projected, every year.

Lee is slipping. He's out of the top 10, out of the top 20, and found in the latter half of the 20's right now - for now. He could slip all the way to the Jets at 48 at this pace.

The point is, the Jets have more than WR need, and taking a guy in the first round that might not be deserve of that tag, would be foolish. I can't see the Jets passing on Watkins or Evans, if they slip to 18... somehow... but in the probability that they do not slip, the Jets will still likely take BPA, whether it be defense or offense.

Ebron, Dennard, Barr (if he slips).

They might even trade back to the later part of the 1st round and get another pick in the process.

Cooks, ODB, Lee are all stretches at 18 and if none of those 3 players I listed above are available... I'd imagine we trade back.

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04-09-2014, 12:36 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
It's definitely a possibility, considering our special teams coordinator is from LSU and could give a glowing recommendation if he liked him and was asked about him.

I like Beckham and would be ok with the Jets taking him. That all depends on who is on the board with Beckham. If Ebron is available at 18 (and I doubt he is) I'd take him over any receiver besides Watkins or Evans. (Neither will be available at 18)

I think it's possible the Jets take a CB in the 1st round. I saw Cimini write about it yesterday and other Jet beat writers speculate that the Jets might go corner in the 1st round. If I was selecting players I would really consider drafting Darqueze Dennard if he is on the board at 18. It really could set the Jets up for the next 5 to 8 years at CB with both Dennard and Milliner.

The Jets can go a million different ways. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets moved down in round 1 but I would be surprised if they moved up in the 1st round.

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04-09-2014, 12:42 PM
  #908
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ODB is much better than Landry IMO.

I'd take him way before Lee too.

Cooks is a different animal. I think that depends what you're looking for in a WR.

ODB has a great catch radius which helps a young QB.

I think ODB is clearly the 3rd best WR.

I can totally understand not taking a WR at 18 though. The draft is so deep at WR it may cause every WR but Watkins/Evans to plummet.

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Old
04-09-2014, 12:43 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I like Beckham and would be ok with the Jets taking him. That all depends on who is on the board with Beckham. If Ebron is available at 18 (and I doubt he is) I'd take him over any receiver besides Watkins or Evans. (Neither will be available at 18)

I think it's possible the Jets take a CB in the 1st round. I saw Cimini write about it yesterday and other Jet beat writers speculate that the Jets might go corner in the 1st round. If I was selecting players I would really consider drafting Darqueze Dennard if he is on the board at 18. It really could set the Jets up for the next 5 to 8 years at CB with both Dennard and Milliner.

The Jets can go a million different ways. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets moved down in round 1 but I would be surprised if they moved up in the 1st round.
I think there are several players that warrant them keeping their 18 pick.

Evans, Barr, Ebron, Dennard. In that order.

After that, they can get who they want, later in the round. Trading down seems like a likelihood after that.

I think Ebron will slip to us, and then we will draft him. That's what I think will ultimately happen. But if Anthony Barr slips? That's another guy I'd be completely on board for to take. Last year, several players that were constantly projected to go top 5 and top 10 completely slipped out of the first 15 picks taken. It happens every year. Ebron, Barr, Evans? Who knows. Only time will tell.

But i'd be happy with any of those 4 listed, at 18.

After that, I'd be happy with trading for a later 1st and an additional 3rd and just loading up on talent.

So much talent available this year.

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Old
04-09-2014, 04:38 PM
  #910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
As a Jet Fan, I don't like ODB over Cooks and Lee. I'd rank the WRs

1. Watkins
2. Evans
3. Lee
4. Cooks
5. ODB

I think there's a large gap between Evans and Lee, and a gap between Cooks and ODB. I prefer Lee over Cooks, but I would understand if the Jets took Cooks instead if both were on the board.

I'd be livid if they took ODB over both.
I don't see how you could be "livid" at all. It's a pick 'em between the three guys. Beckham is the best compromise between polish and speed.

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Old
04-09-2014, 04:40 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Bird Law View Post
I don't see how you could be "livid" at all. It's a pick 'em between the three guys. Beckham is the best compromise between polish and speed.
My jury is still out on Beckham. I think the Eagles will grab Cooks in the early 20s.

I read an article today claiming that many front offices are split on Evans. Some think he's a top 2 receiver, others think he's not a top 20 pick.

Recipe for slipping in a draft.

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04-09-2014, 04:42 PM
  #912
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I've seen Cooks plenty. He's a very good receiver, but he has the same issues Jackson does. He can't run routes for his life. He's all speed and nothing else and he's kind of a *****.

Beckham is far from a *****, has almost the same speed, and knows how to run routes.

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04-09-2014, 04:46 PM
  #913
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No idea why what the Big 12 had to do with anything there. Edited that out.

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04-09-2014, 04:48 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Bird Law View Post
I've seen Cooks plenty. Remember, I'm a Big 12 guy. He's a very good receiver, but he has the same issues Jackson does. He can't run routes for his life. He's all speed and nothing else and he's kind of a *****.

Beckham is far from a *****, has almost the same speed, and knows how to run routes.
I think selecting a WR based on combine time is a recipe for picking a bust.

I've watched some game tape on him, he has solid hands, but he got away with a lot due to piss poor secondaries.

Cooks can't run routes well, but he's coming from O-State, and was likely recruited by Kelly himself. He fits DeSeans role, and much more cheaply.

I'm not sold on ODB. Don't know why, I'm just not.

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04-09-2014, 04:48 PM
  #915
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i think evans is the real deal. while he may not be really fast he is tall and physical and will box out defenders. He can make the difficult catches. Strong after the catch and has good hands. Sort of reminds me of nicks. Nicks really wasn't that fast either. If he is available at 12 i really do hope the giants pick him. Him and cruz would make a great 1-2 combo. I just have a feeling though that tampa is going to pick him up now after that trade they made with buffalo.

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Old
04-09-2014, 04:50 PM
  #916
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Quote:
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I think selecting a WR based on combine time is a recipe for picking a bust.

I've watched some game tape on him, he has solid hands, but he got away with a lot due to piss poor secondaries.

Cooks can't run routes well, but he's coming from O-State, and was likely recruited by Kelly himself. He fits DeSeans role, and much more cheaply.

I'm not sold on ODB. Don't know why, I'm just not.
I had him as a solid first round pick well before his combine. I had him in the 20s range.

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04-09-2014, 04:53 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Bird Law View Post
I had him as a solid first round pick well before his combine. I had him in the 20s range.
I think he would be poor value @ 18. I think Cooks would poor value at 18 too. At first, I thought Lee could be adequate value, but at this point, he would also be poor value.

Ebron @18 would be adequate value. I slotted Evans 14-18 before the combine. He'd be adequate value too. I think before 15, he's poor value for whichever team takes him. Same w/ Ebron.

Barr would be a steal at 18. Dennard is a stretch there but could work too. Other than those 4 guys, i'd trade down, if the plan is to get a guy like Cooks or ODB or Lee.

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Old
04-09-2014, 04:55 PM
  #918
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I think he would be poor value @ 18. I think Cooks would poor value at 18 too. At first, I thought Lee could be adequate value, but at this point, he would also be poor value.

Ebron @18 would be adequate value. I slotted Evans 14-18 before the combine. He'd be adequate value too. I think before 15, he's poor value for whichever team takes him. Same w/ Ebron.

Barr would be a steal at 18. Dennard is a stretch there but could work too. Other than those 4 guys, i'd trade down, if the plan is to get a guy like Cooks or ODB or Lee.
None of those guys are poor value at all. They are just average value.

Ebron and Evans are both average value guys before 15 and great value guys after 15.

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04-09-2014, 11:05 PM
  #919
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I've never heard anything negative about Cook's toughness. In fact, I've heard quite the opposite. I've heard for a player of his stature and playing style, he is quite tough.

Obviously, I respect your own opinions, but I personally do not have ODB ranked all that high. I think Landry becomes the better WR, personally.

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04-09-2014, 11:37 PM
  #920
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I've never heard anything negative about Cook's toughness. In fact, I've heard quite the opposite. I've heard for a player of his stature and playing style, he is quite tough.

Obviously, I respect your own opinions, but I personally do not have ODB ranked all that high. I think Landry becomes the better WR, personally.
Cooks avoids physical play like it's the plague. He'd rather go out of bounds than ever take a hit. The exact same as Jackson. He's remained healthy, but he hardly ever gets hit.

And I have no idea how you can think Landry will be better. No offense at all, but that's just utterly ludicrous to me.

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04-10-2014, 06:26 AM
  #921
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Weeks later and I'm still disgusted with the jets. I feel sickened just trying to talk about the damn draft. Oh well. I'll get over it and move on from the NFL. Doesn't mean it doesn't suck now though. At least if Vick continues to donate to causes (with his time or money) to inform people about how wrong dog fighting is than it actually does a ton of good, but I still want no part of rooting for him. Dog fighting continues with or without him no matter what so hopefully he put a dent in that by bringing awareness to it directly and indirectly.

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04-10-2014, 09:07 AM
  #922
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Cooks avoids physical play like it's the plague. He'd rather go out of bounds than ever take a hit. The exact same as Jackson. He's remained healthy, but he hardly ever gets hit.

And I have no idea how you can think Landry will be better. No offense at all, but that's just utterly ludicrous to me.
I disagree. He doesn't try to truck people because that's not what his skill is. That being said, he fights for the ball 100x better than Jackson does. He'll go up to make the tough catch. He'll go across the middle. After the catch, he's not going to try to run someone over. Why would he? He's small, extremely fast, and elusive. You didn't see Barry Sanders trying to run people over because that's not what his strong point was (to clarify, I'm not saying Cooks is anywhere near as good as Sanders). I don't think that makes Cooks soft.

In regards to Landry, he reminds me of Jerricho Cotchery. Runs good routes, isn't overly fast, but has some of the softest hands I've ever seen. I believe he had the lowest drop percentage of any WR in the NCAA this year (someone could stat check that). When I watched the film, I saw LSU throw to Landry when they needed a big play. He always came down with the contested ball, fought like hell for every ball and every yard. I just see a very solid #2 with Landry.

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04-10-2014, 03:21 PM
  #923
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I disagree. He doesn't try to truck people because that's not what his skill is. That being said, he fights for the ball 100x better than Jackson does. He'll go up to make the tough catch. He'll go across the middle. After the catch, he's not going to try to run someone over. Why would he? He's small, extremely fast, and elusive. You didn't see Barry Sanders trying to run people over because that's not what his strong point was (to clarify, I'm not saying Cooks is anywhere near as good as Sanders). I don't think that makes Cooks soft.

In regards to Landry, he reminds me of Jerricho Cotchery. Runs good routes, isn't overly fast, but has some of the softest hands I've ever seen. I believe he had the lowest drop percentage of any WR in the NCAA this year (someone could stat check that). When I watched the film, I saw LSU throw to Landry when they needed a big play. He always came down with the contested ball, fought like hell for every ball and every yard. I just see a very solid #2 with Landry.
I don't ever see him trying to make the tough play. I think we must be watching the guy on different days, to be honest.

I think he's soft as baby ****.

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04-10-2014, 03:29 PM
  #924
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I disagree. He doesn't try to truck people because that's not what his skill is. That being said, he fights for the ball 100x better than Jackson does. He'll go up to make the tough catch. He'll go across the middle. After the catch, he's not going to try to run someone over. Why would he? He's small, extremely fast, and elusive. You didn't see Barry Sanders trying to run people over because that's not what his strong point was (to clarify, I'm not saying Cooks is anywhere near as good as Sanders). I don't think that makes Cooks soft.

In regards to Landry, he reminds me of Jerricho Cotchery. Runs good routes, isn't overly fast, but has some of the softest hands I've ever seen. I believe he had the lowest drop percentage of any WR in the NCAA this year (someone could stat check that). When I watched the film, I saw LSU throw to Landry when they needed a big play. He always came down with the contested ball, fought like hell for every ball and every yard. I just see a very solid #2 with Landry.
I agree with Landry. I don't watch Cooks much so I can't comment on that.

But I did watch about half of LSU's games this year. Landry was the guy who caught my eye. ODB, not so much. Many of my reasons are the same.

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04-10-2014, 04:06 PM
  #925
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I don't ever see him trying to make the tough play. I think we must be watching the guy on different days, to be honest.

I think he's soft as baby ****.
Definitely possible.

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