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2 more stupid trades!

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Old
02-28-2007, 10:45 AM
  #51
in the hall
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Originally Posted by TheRedressor View Post
Don't be so sure yet Manny. The Rangers are not out of it yet. It looks like Montreal is going to flop out of the playoffs and Toronto nor Carolina don't really scare anyone.

The Rangers have a 6 game stretch now where if they go 4-2 or higher they can really shock a lot of people and do a lot of damage. These two home and home games against the Islanders will make or break the season.

As for the Dupuis trade, Sather must have had some serious blackmail on Don Waddell to fleece him like that.

Bourret is going to be a 1st line RW in the NHL.
well what i'm saying is till this point, this season has been a disappointment

bottom line, we should not be in the position we are this year


also, i do not equate GOOD trades and good drafts to complete success.. its not enough to give sather all the praise certain people are dieing to give him.. these prospects can turn to nothing, for all the talk and hype hell the most we've gotten out of them this season is a couple failures (although i attribute a lot of their downfall because of renney.. dawes and immo)

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Old
02-28-2007, 11:27 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by TheRedressor View Post
Don't be so sure yet Manny. The Rangers are not out of it yet. It looks like Montreal is going to flop out of the playoffs and Toronto nor Carolina don't really scare anyone.

The Rangers have a 6 game stretch now where if they go 4-2 or higher they can really shock a lot of people and do a lot of damage. These two home and home games against the Islanders will make or break the season.

As for the Dupuis trade, Sather must have had some serious blackmail on Don Waddell to fleece him like that.

Bourret is going to be a 1st line RW in the NHL.
Well we've been saying all along if the Rangers win x games out of x games we'll be right back in it...and it never happens. Hard to imagine this is the magical time everything comes together.

I don't know about the trade...I'm certainly not going to miss Dupuis, and I'm glad we didn't do something crazy like trade for Tkachuk, but I'll believe Bourret is going to be a 1st line RW in the NHL when he's a 1st line RW in the NHL.

Does anyone remember Josef Balej?

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Old
02-28-2007, 12:57 PM
  #53
DutchShamrock
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
are you serious?


2000-2004 = DISAPPOINTING

year 1 = lockout
year 2 = great year
year 3 = DISAPPOINTING
So you are only concerned with the record. The fact that we are rebuilding is irrelevant?

year 1 = the purge. The recognition that the former game plan wasn't working. We jettisoned the deadweight and rebuilt our prospect pool. We still haven't reaped those benefits but probably begin next season. This is something everyone wanted Sather to do, he did it. How can we complain about him doing what we wanted?

year 2 = great year. Record-wise and rebuilding-wise. Sather got youth into the big club, we won some games and we didn't sacrifice youth for vets.

year 3 = disappointing record-wise, but how do you blame Sather for the team he put together? He has the same squad as last season, the few new faces were regarded as upgrades almost unanimously by everyone here. Ward didn't work out but he was an upgrade over Strudwick or Poti. Hall didn't work out but Sather has more than attoned for that over the last 24 hours by turning it into a fantastic prospect. Want to tear down the Shanny deal? It's funny how we are allowed to use hindsight and say how bad the deals were, but no one wants to admit how much they loved this squad preseason.

I have a few issues with the delay in getting more rookies on the big club but that is Renney not Sather. Sather is laying the foundation down for a very bright future. We aren't great right now, but that is exactly what we were asking for when Sather opted to rebuild in '04. How can you turn your back on the guy now when he has done everything we have asked for over the last 3 years? Making the playoffs last year was a bonus, we weren't supposed to be competitive yet.

Are you seriously pissed that we aren't competing for a cup yet? Are you that impatient? Are you that much of a fairweather fan? Then go watch the Devils with all the other former Ranger fans.

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02-28-2007, 01:02 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
So you are only concerned with the record. The fact that we are rebuilding is irrelevant?

year 1 = the purge. The recognition that the former game plan wasn't working. We jettisoned the deadweight and rebuilt our prospect pool. We still haven't reaped those benefits but probably begin next season. This is something everyone wanted Sather to do, he did it. How can we complain about him doing what we wanted?

year 2 = great year. Record-wise and rebuilding-wise. Sather got youth into the big club, we won some games and we didn't sacrifice youth for vets.

year 3 = disappointing record-wise, but how do you blame Sather for the team he put together? He has the same squad as last season, the few new faces were regarded as upgrades almost unanimously by everyone here. Ward didn't work out but he was an upgrade over Strudwick or Poti. Hall didn't work out but Sather has more than attoned for that over the last 24 hours by turning it into a fantastic prospect. Want to tear down the Shanny deal? It's funny how we are allowed to use hindsight and say how bad the deals were, but no one wants to admit how much they loved this squad preseason.

I have a few issues with the delay in getting more rookies on the big club but that is Renney not Sather. Sather is laying the foundation down for a very bright future. We aren't great right now, but that is exactly what we were asking for when Sather opted to rebuild in '04. How can you turn your back on the guy now when he has done everything we have asked for over the last 3 years? Making the playoffs last year was a bonus, we weren't supposed to be competitive yet.

Are you seriously pissed that we aren't competing for a cup yet? Are you that impatient? Are you that much of a fairweather fan? Then go watch the Devils with all the other former Ranger fans.
Well said. or even better watch the Wolfpack. Seriously, watch them and tell me this team doesnt have a bright future.

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Old
02-28-2007, 05:15 PM
  #55
DutchShamrock
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
well what i'm saying is till this point, this season has been a disappointment

bottom line, we should not be in the position we are this year


also, i do not equate GOOD trades and good drafts to complete success.. its not enough to give sather all the praise certain people are dieing to give him.. these prospects can turn to nothing, for all the talk and hype hell the most we've gotten out of them this season is a couple failures (although i attribute a lot of their downfall because of renney.. dawes and immo)
I know I already addressed some of your argument, but to take this one on specifically:

You can't have it both ways. We can't ask Sather to finally rebuild and simultaniously compete for the cup. So you are either pissed that he traded away all the vets in '04, cause that killed our chances of condending (heh) or you are pissed that we aren't rebuilding enough.

And you are right, this isn't a complete success. But if that is your standard than you have to give him at least a few more years to let his plan play out. You have to let his good trades and drafts develop into a good NHL team, and then see if it becomes a Stanley Cup contending team.

We are happy right now because the organization is staying the course... this was a big test. We could have sold alot of youth off to make a run, a long shot at that. And you are right in that these prospects and youth could turn into nothing, but that is something we had to accept when the fan base demanded that the Rangers stop trying to buy teams and start building teams. What's a fair turnaround on a draft pick? 3 years? 5 years? So we're at the 3 year mark of the new era, the verge of fruition, not the end.

Maybe you got excited by the success of last season, but we have to start admiting some things. Alot of the success last season was in the first half. That can be attributed to the vets that our team wisely acquired who took full advantage of the new rules which currently are being loosened up to favor the NA game again. The other advantage is that alot of our players actually played during the lockout, but that advantage dried up when the rest of the league caught up to the pace and conditioning of our Euros. So I don't really see this season as a huge step back, but I tend to look at the first half of last year as an anomaly

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Old
02-28-2007, 05:33 PM
  #56
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If your fear was that the Rangers would revert to the old way of doing things and try vainly to make this into a playoff team, then I think the results certainly will give you some solace. That's not to say that the Rangers weren't trying to do that, it just happened that either they weren't willing to pay the price, or a particular team like other options better...which is perhaps less appetizing to some extent.

But if you were like me, then you were hoping that the Rangers would take advantage of a seller's market and add a little value to the franchise by selling off particularly the two high value guys Shanahan and Nylander. I understand that the team probably wants to bring them both back next year, but that can be dealt with the same way that Weight came back to the Blues. Ultimately the Rangers have no leverage over them anyway seeing as they're both UFA's this summer.

I would have also been interested to hear if there were any offers on the table for Pock and Rachunek. It doesn't seem as if either really fits into the long term plans of this club so if there's offers there I'd certainly listen to them

Also curious as to whether the Rangers might have claimed Brian Boucher if the Blue Jackets hadn't. Word was that they sent Valiquette down yesterday, which suggested they may have been looking at a goalie.

Finally, I'm not sure what to expect of Mara, but I did see the comment that "he's only played on bad teams". Well all I have to say is that he'll probably feel at home on the Rangers then

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Old
02-28-2007, 05:38 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HVPOLARBEARS19 View Post
This is the first time I've been legitimately happy with our trades. What awesome moves. Mara for Ward...wow talk about a steal. And Bourett, Atlanta's best prospect for Pascal Dupuis???
Damn if only we could've dumped a few more pieces of our dead wood, but this is a terrific start.
I don't know if I would call Mara a steal. I've heard he's a bit of a defensive liability at times, but he sticks up for his teammates and will drop the gloves when needed, it was a good pickup. Bourret, on the other hand, was definitely a steal.

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Old
02-28-2007, 05:43 PM
  #58
RGY
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Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER View Post
Sather did not trade young players for old farts. In fact he's done exactly what he & maloney have been saying for a long time. They will trade, but it will to benefit the team long term. They will not take on salary. We turned a player, Duprey, who we have plenty of duplicates of on the farm and in Jrs for a quality young player, barely over 20 who plays with an edge and more importantly north/south kind of player.

Mara is 7 years younger than Ward whom we got for zero. He's bigger and will address the PP point issue. His contract is not a killer. He enters his contract year next year and based off of the prices this year could fetch a #1 should we decide to deal him next year at the trade deadline. The positive is maybe no more Rozsival on the point.
So basically AR, you were being sarcastic with the thread title, gotcha now.

Look I would have been fine if they added Bertuzzi or whoever as long as they didnt overpay like EVERYONE else seems to be doing. I was in shock when i saw what was being given up for players like Guerin, Tkachuk, Smyth, etc., guys who are UFA's at the end of the year. The Blues unless i'm mistaken now have 3 1st round picks! Every team seemed to be trading away 1st round picks as if they were 3rd round picks, they were being traded left and right which is why I am extremely content with management.

Mara is 7 years younger than Ward, bigger, better skater, and just as physical, to me thats an upgrade.

And I saw a thread at the bottom with the title basically wondering if Avery was the reason Dupuis was traded. Really thats ridiculous and has nothing to do with why he was traded. Really he was traded because we got a top prospect back, a guy liked in the 05 draft and wanted, who isnt that far off from the NHL IMO. He has a lot to offer with the scouting reports having sense of great optimism for this kid. He's a former 1st round pick and well we all know how Hossa is working out another former 1st round pick. Lets just hope Bourret doesnt take as long to develop.

We kept our picks mostly except for that 3rd rounder and we have cap space to sign all the UFA's that will be available this summer and there is a plethara of them.

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Old
02-28-2007, 05:49 PM
  #59
NYR957
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
Why does everyone want Nylander back so bad? And I would def. not sign him to a multi-year deal. I understand the team will probably sign him back, because of the whole Jagr friendship non-sense...but please, I don't need multiple years of this guy circling anymore.
Yeah, well anyone who can put up 70 plus points as he can is welcome on my team. You cannot breakup that trio of Straka, Nylander, and Jagr, although you can put them on different lines. If you put them on the same line, they are one of, if not thee most potent line in the NHL. No other line in the NHL right now can say they have three players in the top 25 in points. Nylander has 65 points right now with 19 games to go.

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Old
02-28-2007, 07:21 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
If your fear was that the Rangers would revert to the old way of doing things and try vainly to make this into a playoff team, then I think the results certainly will give you some solace. That's not to say that the Rangers weren't trying to do that, it just happened that either they weren't willing to pay the price, or a particular team like other options better...which is perhaps less appetizing to some extent.

But if you were like me, then you were hoping that the Rangers would take advantage of a seller's market and add a little value to the franchise by selling off particularly the two high value guys Shanahan and Nylander. I understand that the team probably wants to bring them both back next year, but that can be dealt with the same way that Weight came back to the Blues. Ultimately the Rangers have no leverage over them anyway seeing as they're both UFA's this summer.

I would have also been interested to hear if there were any offers on the table for Pock and Rachunek. It doesn't seem as if either really fits into the long term plans of this club so if there's offers there I'd certainly listen to them

Also curious as to whether the Rangers might have claimed Brian Boucher if the Blue Jackets hadn't. Word was that they sent Valiquette down yesterday, which suggested they may have been looking at a goalie.

Finally, I'm not sure what to expect of Mara, but I did see the comment that "he's only played on bad teams". Well all I have to say is that he'll probably feel at home on the Rangers then
Even though I said that "he's only played on bad teams", I'm of the same opinion as you, we really don't know what to expect. But, I think we will agree that he still has an upside and that is what you look for in a trade. he may be the second coming of Tom Poti. Or maybe he is at the age where it comes together and we end up with a decent player. I honestly don't think we lose here. If after playing most of next season the organization comes to the conclusion that he doesn't fit or that we have a younger, equally adapt player coming up from within, we flip him into something else, a pick another prospect.

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02-28-2007, 07:48 PM
  #61
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The one issue...

with Mara, is how much PP time will he get. Boston did a classic Ranger move - they signed a guy with 8 PP goals last season who averaged 5+ minutes of PP time per game and play him less than 3 minutes per game and are disappointed with the results. If Mara is played properly, this could be a good trade. If not, we may see a guy who struggles offensively and isn't that good defensively and thus will be a less Ward. That's the key.

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Old
02-28-2007, 07:54 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by HVPOLARBEARS19 View Post
This is the first time I've been legitimately happy with our trades. What awesome moves. Mara for Ward...wow talk about a steal. And Bourett, Atlanta's best prospect for Pascal Dupuis???
Damn if only we could've dumped a few more pieces of our dead wood, but this is a terrific start.
For the record, Atlanta's best prospect is Bryan Little.

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02-28-2007, 08:10 PM
  #63
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For the record, Atlanta's best prospect is Bryan Little.
Bourret was listed yesterday and the Thrashers #1 prospect according to Hockey's Future.

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Old
03-01-2007, 05:41 AM
  #64
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Bourret was listed yesterday and the Thrashers #1 prospect according to Hockey's Future.
people down here are really PO'd. They feel Waddel is trying to save his job. Some I talked to were upset about the Duprey trade and what they gace up. He struggled at the start of the season in the AHL because he spoke little, if any english and went from asmall french canadian city to Chicago! He wasin and out, up and down in his play and playing in games. Word is that since late Nov, early Dec he has been a completely different player finally getting acclimated.

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Old
03-01-2007, 09:07 AM
  #65
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I guess you'd have a good feeling for the sentiment in ATL, wouldn't you?

Forgive me if this can be equated to kicking a man when he's down, but it's nice to hear that most ATL fans (save the ones in denial) are as upset about this trade as we are happy.

I will say ATLRANGER, I've been critical of Sather in the past (and I still am - still don't fully trust him), but you've always supported the guy unequivocably. It must have been hard at times, because lets face it he's made some dumb, dumb moves. As I've said in other places, however, just like Tom Renney, Sather is also learning, and also improving. This game is all about continuous improvement - the new CBA has ensured that this will continue within management for another long period of time - and I'm glad to see that our management is picking things up quickly.

Now, if we could just train Sather to hire some GOOD help this off-season, we'll be fine come next April. The foundation is almost there...

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