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Old
04-10-2014, 10:33 PM
  #226
PsychoticHab
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Who knows. This league is a joke when it comes to enforcing rules against dangerous plays like shoving someone into the boards head first.

If it was just me, he would be banned for the rest of the season. I would have banned Jones also and Chara as well.
The problem though is that Murray played the puck first and looked to finish his hit shoulder to shoulder. Sundstrom bailed away from Murray and, as Murray is built like a fridge, lost the contact. Some responsibility has to go to the victim.

This is a lesser case than Wilson on Schenn which received no suspension as the league ruled Schenn chose against making the hockey play and bailed turning his back to Wilson while facing the board.

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04-10-2014, 10:40 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by PsychoticHab View Post
The problem though is that Murray played the puck first and looked to finish his hit shoulder to shoulder. Sundstrom bailed away from Murray and, as Murray is built like a fridge, lost the contact. Some responsibility has to go to the victim.

This is a lesser case than Wilson on Schenn which received no suspension as the league ruled Schenn chose against making the hockey play and bailed turning his back to Wilson while facing the board.
I don't give a damn! When you kill someone with your car and you didn't do it on purpose we still throw your ass in jail for involuntary man slaughter. You understand?

2 measure rulings is a pathetic failure in the NHL and there isn't a single day where you don't hear commentators complain about it and yet they hypocritically flip-flop whenever their team is the wrong-doers. I trust this kind of crap will happen for several years to come, until someone decides to cut it and systematically impose suspensions on every dangerous play regardless of circumstances and excuses.

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04-10-2014, 10:47 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
I don't give a damn! When you kill someone with your car and you didn't do it on purpose we still throw your ass in jail for involuntary man slaughter. You understand?

2 measure rulings is a pathetic failure in the NHL and there isn't a single day where you don't hear commentators complain about it and yet they hypocritically flip-flop whenever their team is the wrong-doers. I trust this kind of crap will happen for several years to come, until someone decides to cut it and systematically impose suspensions on every dangerous play regardless of circumstances and excuses.
...And when someone jumps in front of a moving car it is ruled suicide and the responsibility lies with the victim. Do YOU understand?

Sundstrom chose to give up the hockey play and put himself in the compromising position.

There's a reason why there is two sides to the argument. The problem with your systematic idea is that nothing in life is black and white and different situations call for different punishments.

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04-10-2014, 10:49 PM
  #229
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...And when someone jumps in front of a moving car it is ruled suicide and the responsibility lies with the victim. Do YOU understand?

Sundstrom chose to give up the hockey play and put himself in the compromising position.

There's a reason why there is two sides to the argument. The problem with your systematic idea is that nothing in life is black and white and different situations call for different punishments.
That's ****ing pathetic and I'll leave at that...

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04-10-2014, 10:59 PM
  #230
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On a related note Kostka is back and notched two assists tonight for TB.

Re tonight I don't understand why people say it's "pathetic" to suggest Sundstrom might share responsibility. NHL has ruled that way many times.

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04-10-2014, 11:11 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
That's ****ing pathetic and I'll leave at that...
I take it criminal law isn't something you've personally studied recently then? Or at least not properly if you have any background in it.

I'll try to simplify it for you then:

If you put yourself in a position where a normal action from someone else (that is safe under normal circumstances) puts you at risk, you have to bare at least some of the responsibility.

Whether it happens while driving (your example), hunting, playing hockey, or any other action that does involve some risk, the rule remains the same and that is:

If the person that commits in the infraction followed every safety guideline possible within reason but the actions of the victim still allowed an accident to occur, the victim must share some of the blame for the final outcome.

In this case, Murray played the puck off Sundstrom's stick and went to finish his check shoulder to shoulder like he normally does. You can then see Sundstrom catch a glimpse of who is about to hit him at the last second and he makes the choice to bail on the hockey play and exposes his back to Murray at a point where Murray is past the point of no return.

This is a much lesser example of the Wilson/Schenn hit that the league has already ruled on.

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04-10-2014, 11:23 PM
  #232
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Sundström is a freakin rookie. He has to learn ti keep his head up. Murray was playing on the edge and hits like that happen if the hitter is playing on the edge an the rookie doesn't keep his head up.

That said I think it should be at least a 5 game suspension. It could be more becsuse of murrays history.

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04-11-2014, 12:03 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by PsychoticHab View Post
I take it criminal law isn't something you've personally studied recently then? Or at least not properly if you have any background in it.

I'll try to simplify it for you then:

If you put yourself in a position where a normal action from someone else (that is safe under normal circumstances) puts you at risk, you have to bare at least some of the responsibility.

Whether it happens while driving (your example), hunting, playing hockey, or any other action that does involve some risk, the rule remains the same and that is:

If the person that commits in the infraction followed every safety guideline possible within reason but the actions of the victim still allowed an accident to occur, the victim must share some of the blame for the final outcome.

In this case, Murray played the puck off Sundstrom's stick and went to finish his check shoulder to shoulder like he normally does. You can then see Sundstrom catch a glimpse of who is about to hit him at the last second and he makes the choice to bail on the hockey play and exposes his back to Murray at a point where Murray is past the point of no return.

This is a much lesser example of the Wilson/Schenn hit that the league has already ruled on.
Since when pushing someone when you're near the boards is considered safe.

It is true that Sundstrom put himself in a bad position. But looking at the reply, Murray could have eased up a little. Murray gave Sundstrom an extra push while Sundstrom was facing the boards. That's freaking dangerous and reckless.

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04-11-2014, 12:31 AM
  #234
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Since when pushing someone when you're near the boards is considered safe.
Since they started allowing body contact in hockey.

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04-11-2014, 01:33 AM
  #235
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Seems there is no suspension in this case.
I don't see how this can happen.
In this case it is an unfortunate event.
Sundstrum was in a bad position and Murray was doing his play.

To be frank, I understand that Murray can get a penalty but I do not understand why Carkner did not get one after dropping his gloves...

Seems to me that Murray was not overdoing it.
He was just trying to put Sundstrum out of the play.

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04-11-2014, 01:39 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Seems there is no suspension in this case.
I don't see how this can happen.
In this case it is an unfortunate event.
Sundstrum was in a bad position and Murray was doing his play.

To be frank, I understand that Murray can get a penalty but I do not understand why Carkner did not get one after dropping his gloves...

Seems to me that Murray was not overdoing it.
He was just trying to put Sundstrum out of the play.
Carkner did get a roughing minor on the play though.

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04-11-2014, 01:54 AM
  #237
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Murray sees Sundström and lines up the check Sundtröm turns away at the last second. 5+20 was fair cause it might look bad but no suplementary penalty should come from this. Not a dirty hit, Sundtröm just did the idiotic and turned his back on Doug.

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04-11-2014, 06:41 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Masuli View Post
Murray sees Sundström and lines up the check Sundtröm turns away at the last second. 5+20 was fair cause it might look bad but no suplementary penalty should come from this. Not a dirty hit, Sundtröm just did the idiotic and turned his back on Doug.
Agreed, don't mind the 5 in a meaningless game, but it was hardly a viscious hit by Murray, just a player who didn't protect himself and turned his back the last instant.

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04-11-2014, 06:42 AM
  #239
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie · 4m
MTL's Douglas Murray is NOT expected to face any supplementary discipline for his 5-minute major vs NYI last night.

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04-11-2014, 10:27 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie · 4m
MTL's Douglas Murray is NOT expected to face any supplementary discipline for his 5-minute major vs NYI last night.
Glad to hear it's good to have a wall available on D.

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04-11-2014, 10:50 AM
  #241
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The problem with Murray is people judged him in Nov-Dec trying to get up to speed after missing about 6 weeks injured. He was -11 and had some rough nights.

Since Jan 1st he's only -1 even though he had a stretch where he played more before Weaver got comfortable.

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04-11-2014, 11:00 AM
  #242
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I think Tinordi and Beaulieu have provided sufficient margin for me on being comfortable with them that I would no longer support re-signing Murray. Or ever putting him back in a fully healthy lineup either, for that matter. I will shift my preference to re-signing Weaver instead.

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04-11-2014, 11:06 AM
  #243
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Too bad he wasn't suspended.

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04-11-2014, 02:20 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Since Jan 1st he's only -1 even though he had a stretch where he played more before Weaver got comfortable.
He's not actually gotten better. Price has been saving his butt more. Otherwise he still bleeds chances against.

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04-11-2014, 03:02 PM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticHab
...And when someone jumps in front of a moving car it is ruled suicide and the responsibility lies with the victim. Do YOU understand?

Sundstrom chose to give up the hockey play and put himself in the compromising position.

There's a reason why there is two sides to the argument. The problem with your systematic idea is that nothing in life is black and white and different situations call for different punishments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
That's ****ing pathetic and I'll leave at that...
It may be F?%*#! pathetic but it's true...

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04-11-2014, 03:04 PM
  #246
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He's not actually gotten better. Price has been saving his butt more. Otherwise he still bleeds chances against.
Exactly. His inability to cover the distance from his position to where the puck is before opposing players tends to keep him in the defensive zone. It's like a sad game of monkey in the middle watching him play sometimes.

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04-11-2014, 03:16 PM
  #247
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It was not Murray's fault that the player turned at last minute. Seriously, Lucic took a half ice rink run at Miller and never got suspended for it.

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04-11-2014, 04:45 PM
  #248
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Doug Murray has defied the odds, being the 241st pick in 1999 by San Jose's Doug Wilson, himself an All-Star dman recognized the worth of Murray in the rough and rumble Western Division. Bergevin joins Wilson & Shero as GM's that realize his worth, as a teacher and enforcer on an otherwise small Hab defence, Doug can be instrumental in the growth of both Emelin & Tinordi into punishing net clearing Dmen.

Tinordi still looks thin, compared to his father when he was an elite defensive force with Minnesota. It might be wise to add Murray or Hal Gill as tutors for our young Dmen like Tinordi, Pateryn & Beaulieu (Nathan has shown a nasty edge to his game also). It truly would have been great IMO, to have signed Larry Robinson to be the defensive coach, or possibly rescue Guy Lapointe (Always underrated IMO) from obscurity scouting for Minnesota.

The worth of players like Murray & Weaver isn't confined to just play, but what they bring in character, their presence has a calming effect, earned from playing in every circumstance in veteran careers.

Bergevin doesn't come by these pickups by chance, like I've read about him, his work for the Habs is 24/7 and with the staff he's surrounded himself with, very little of any consequence in the hockey world can allude his prying eyes. The Murray signing has been one of many moves that have brought the Habs to being a serious threat in the Eastern Conference Playoffs.

My hat's off to both Bergevin & Murray for their work in making the Habs a hard team to beat.

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04-11-2014, 05:21 PM
  #249
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If Wilson and Shero value Murray they have an odd way of showing it. Wilson moved him out during a playoff run, and Shero let him walk after using two 2nd rounders on him.

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04-11-2014, 09:20 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
He's not actually gotten better. Price has been saving his butt more. Otherwise he still bleeds chances against.
Price must be pissed off at PK then for letting more goals in lately when PK is on the ice.

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