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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
04-11-2014, 01:29 PM
  #26
Treb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Just as obvious people can't read between the lines to see that the Rangers don't have any interest in moving Kreider unless the other team can blow them away. Lars Eller doesn't do it. The Rangers don't need Josh Gorges. Personally for the Rangers needs Kreider fits better than Galchenyuk. Take a look at our wingers--in terms of size and speed and talent there's not a lot of that combination.
There is a difference between asking for an overpayment and asking for a gomez-payment. You proposed the later.

I understand that Eller+Gorges wouldn't be worth it to you, but saying Subban/Patches almost aren't enough is crazy. At worst, accept the trade and then trade the received player for a clear upgrade on Kreider, since the value aren't in the same level at all.

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Old
04-11-2014, 01:40 PM
  #27
eco's bones
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Originally Posted by Treb View Post
There is a difference between asking for an overpayment and asking for a gomez-payment. You proposed the later.

I understand that Eller+Gorges wouldn't be worth it to you, but saying Subban/Patches almost aren't enough is crazy. At worst, accept the trade and then trade the received player for a clear upgrade on Kreider, since the value aren't in the same level at all.
FWIW Kreider fits into the Rangers scheme of things as their future pwf 1st line LW. The Rangers are small on the wing. He's probably the fastest skater in our entire organization--he is 6'3 230 lbs. and a fitness fanatic. We don't need to get exponentially even more smaller on the wing. His progression from prospect to NHL player might not have been the fastest but he's getting there.

Not trading Kreider unless the trade blows off the doors. Simple as that. He is not an entirely developed player. I expect him to get a lot better.

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Old
04-11-2014, 02:14 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
FWIW Kreider fits into the Rangers scheme of things as their future pwf 1st line LW. The Rangers are small on the wing. He's probably the fastest skater in our entire organization--he is 6'3 230 lbs. and a fitness fanatic. We don't need to get exponentially even more smaller on the wing. His progression from prospect to NHL player might not have been the fastest but he's getting there.

Not trading Kreider unless the trade blows off the doors. Simple as that. He is not an entirely developed player. I expect him to get a lot better.
You keep him, we'll keep our "exponentially smaller" Pacioretty and his already developed goal scoring.

I think Kreider is a very good young player with potential but not worth making a trade for due to the crazy prices that would be asked for.

The OP may not be a significant enough package for hfboard posters to want a deal, but the offer isn't the usual insulting offer that kicks off most threads.

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Old
04-11-2014, 02:15 PM
  #29
Alexandre SheaWeber
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Anytime. Please take the job in NY and propose this trade to Bergevin. Trust me.

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Old
04-11-2014, 04:31 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
You keep him, we'll keep our "exponentially smaller" Pacioretty and his already developed goal scoring.

I think Kreider is a very good young player with potential but not worth making a trade for due to the crazy prices that would be asked for.

The OP may not be a significant enough package for hfboard posters to want a deal, but the offer isn't the usual insulting offer that kicks off most threads.
FWIW--my comment was on the original trade--not Pacioretty making us exponentially smaller in a Kreider deal but even so it seems to me that you and the OP are not even bothering to look and see what our roster is like when he comes along with such a proposal of higher priced veterans for our younger higher end players and you shoot down any idea of trading something that's going to be really painful. Nor does it seem to register with either of you that the Rangers don't have a lot that is all that worthwhile as far as prospects in the first place. The above proposal was made with the idea of improving your team over the long run without giving up very much really but with some semblance of 'fair value' entirely dependent on how good the players in question are now and **** how good they might be in the future.


...And your not happy with the counter proposal but I'd rather not give you a potential Pacioretty 2 for a bunch of junk.

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Old
04-11-2014, 05:08 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomboom View Post
To Montreal:

Chris Kreider
Dylan McIlrath
2nd round pick

To Rangers:

Lars Eller
Josh Gorges
1rst round pick
Uhhhh. No. Kreider is a little offensive consistency away from being star power forward in this league. McIlrath is exactly what the Rangers need as their 6th defenseman to stop being a sissy team.

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Old
04-11-2014, 06:28 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
FWIW--my comment was on the original trade--not Pacioretty making us exponentially smaller in a Kreider deal but even so it seems to me that you and the OP are not even bothering to look and see what our roster is like when he comes along with such a proposal of higher priced veterans for our younger higher end players and you shoot down any idea of trading something that's going to be really painful. Nor does it seem to register with either of you that the Rangers don't have a lot that is all that worthwhile as far as prospects in the first place. The above proposal was made with the idea of improving your team over the long run without giving up very much really but with some semblance of 'fair value' entirely dependent on how good the players in question are now and **** how good they might be in the future.


...And your not happy with the counter proposal but I'd rather not give you a potential Pacioretty 2 for a bunch of junk.
My bad, you used Pacioretty in a prior post. And TBH...I can care less of the Rangers roster makeup. It makes no difference. I made it pretty clear that I like Kreider, but not at the price that would be demanded.

As for the OP I did say it is not likely significant enough....but it isn't the usual insultinly lowball crap that is seen.

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Old
04-12-2014, 09:23 AM
  #33
BPD
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
My bad, you used Pacioretty in a prior post. And TBH...I can care less of the Rangers roster makeup. It makes no difference. I made it pretty clear that I like Kreider, but not at the price that would be demanded.

As for the OP I did say it is not likely significant enough....but it isn't the usual insultinly lowball crap that is seen.
It's pretty bad, dude. It's "Habs don't need these guys" without thinking about "Do the Rangers need these guys?"

It's victim to HFBoards Commandment #1 - Thou shalt consider the trade partners' needs adequately.

Be real - look at the Rangers and ask yourself what Josh Gorges or Lars Eller bring us that we don't already have?

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Old
04-12-2014, 09:28 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by cespedesrules View Post
Uhhhh. No. Kreider is a little offensive consistency away from being star power forward in this league. McIlrath is exactly what the Rangers need as their 6th defenseman to stop being a sissy team.
If that's all McIlrath is, you can find others to fill that role. One would think the Rangers organization and fans would have higher aspirations for him.

With that said, Rangers say no.

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Old
04-12-2014, 11:00 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
If that's all McIlrath is, you can find others to fill that role. One would think the Rangers organization and fans would have higher aspirations for him.

With that said, Rangers say no.
as of right now our top 4 is filled, with John Moore as our 5th. McIlrath and Conner Allen will be vying for 6th spot come training camp. McIlrath will be a rookie so 6th D is where he is slotted presently. A lot can happen in off season, but until Stralman is traded or signed or becomes a FA McI is slotted at 6; so I am sure that is what was meant by 6th D. Raffy Diaz will be in mix also;

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Old
04-12-2014, 11:09 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
If that's all McIlrath is, you can find others to fill that role. One would think the Rangers organization and fans would have higher aspirations for him.

With that said, Rangers say no.
I think the idea is that McIlrath will eventually become a top 4. He's a possibility to make the Rangers next year--if not at the beginning sometime during the season. He's a ways away from being a top 4 NHL defender.

He's still very young. He's huge and skates for the most part pretty well for someone his size. Good speed --some mobility though he needs to work more on his edging and positioning. He's progressed okay for a young defensemen--slowed down somewhat by injuries especially last year--his first pro season when he dislocated a kneecap in a development camp and missed almost the first half of the year.

The thing with McIlrath is if he can get all the elements of his game together he should be a real beast. Even if he can take a regular bottom pairing defenseman's minuted of 10-15 a night he would be a real asset. He is heavyweight tough. Can't say he's fought all the heavy's in the AHL but Hartford like all other teams doesn't play a schedule that covers the entire league. He's pretty much fought anyone with any real reputation that his team has faced and wins/draws almost all the time--mostly wins.

He's being groomed by Jeff Beukeboom. He has the potential to be not only a better player but a tougher player and as devastating a hitter as Beukeboom was.

Rangers have invested a lot of time and effort into McIlrath. It's been a bit of slow going but he continues to get better. I don't think they're inclined to dump him anytime soon. They might trade him but I'd expect they'd want something very substantial back in terms of young players and/or draft picks. Don't know about the Canadiens but they have a somewhat similar prospect in Tinordi.

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Old
04-12-2014, 12:45 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BPD View Post
It's pretty bad, dude. It's "Habs don't need these guys" without thinking about "Do the Rangers need these guys?"

It's victim to HFBoards Commandment #1 - Thou shalt consider the trade partners' needs adequately.

Be real - look at the Rangers and ask yourself what Josh Gorges or Lars Eller bring us that we don't already have?
I'll say it again (3rd time BTW) I like Kreider, pissed we picked Leblanc instead of him. But, he isn't worth to the habs what we would have to give up to get him. It would set back the teams progression guaranteed.

Honestly, it isn't terrible. A 3rd line C and a top4 D....there has been worse. What do they do for the Rangers? Nothing....I never argued that part. But saying the habs don't need them is untrue. And, again, as I've said before, it isn't enough to make it happen but it isn't the typical terrible lowball crap either.

My whole point is that these aren't "scaps" as others have said. Just because they are packaged together in a deal that doesn't meet the value needed doesn't make them scraps, just insufficient (value, needs,etc).

And HFBoards Commandment #1 is 1st rd picks trump anything in value. Even other 1sts. And a 1st next year trumps even a 1st overall.....because he'll be younger.

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Old
04-12-2014, 06:22 PM
  #38
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Weird proposal.

Would the Rangers even be interested in acquiring Eller? Doesn't sound like a fit to me.

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Old
04-12-2014, 06:43 PM
  #39
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IMO (biased, obviously) the value isn't terrible, but it satisfies Montreal's needs, while doing little or nothing for NY.

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