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Old
03-01-2007, 10:42 PM
  #1
WhipNash27
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Some Ref Stats

Since the other ref thread turned into a flame war between Pittsburgh/Devils/Rangers fans, I thought I'd make a new post.

This is a list of the referees who reffed in each of the games the Rangers have lost this season. First off I never knew there were so many refs. Second Fraiser seems to be the main guy out there whenever the Rangers lose. They've lost 7 games with him out there. 5 with Spada, 4 with Furlatt and a bunch with 3. There seem to be some refs that don't call very much at all (Fraiser) and then some that call a lot (Marouelli, McCreary, Rooney, etc.). Just thought it'd be interesting to compile this list. Maybe if I have some time over the weekend I'll add in the wins too.

Stephane Auger
12/01 vs. BUF 3-4 (SO) 4
01/20 vs. ATL 1-3 10
2 Game Average 7.00

Gord Dwyer
11/26 vs. BUF 2-3 (OT) 20
1 Game Average 20.00

Kerry Fraser
12/03 vs. NYI 4-7 6
12/26 vs. NYI 0-2 14
12/29 vs. OTT 0-1 13
01/16 vs. NJD 0-1 8
02/05 vs. DET 3-4 8
02/06 vs. NJD 2-3 (SO) 8
02/24 vs. CBJ 2-3 9
7 Game Average 9.43

Eric Furlatt
12/19 vs. NYI 3-4 14
01/16 vs. NJD 0-1 8
01/20 vs. ATL 1-3 10
02/24 vs. CBJ 2-3 9
4 Game Average 10.25

Chris Lee
10/10 vs. PHI 2-4 14
10/18 vs. NAS 0-3 14
02/17 vs. PHI 3-5 26
3 Game Average 18.00

Mike Leggo
11/26 vs. BUF 2-3 (OT) 20
12/17 vs. NJD 1-6 17
2 Game Average 18.50

Mike Hasenfratz
11/28 vs. ATL 4-5 (OT) 4
01/11 vs. OTT 4-6 4
02/06 vs. NJD 2-3 (SO) 8
3 Game Average 6.00

Dave Jackson
10/18 vs. NAS 0-3 14
10/25 vs. FLA 2-4 4
2 Game Average 9.00

Marc Joannette
10/10 vs. PHI 2-4 14
11/05 vs. BUF 3-4 (OT) 8
2 Game Average 11.00

Greg Kimmerly
02/20 vs. NJD 1-2 15
02/22 vs. NJD 2-3 (SO) 12
2 Game Average 13.50

Don Koharski
12/23 vs. TAM 3-4 10
02/03 vs. TAM 2-3 18
02/05 vs. DET 3-4 8
3 Game Average 12.00

Tom Kowal
10/30 vs. LAK 1-4 14
1 Game Average 14.00

Steve Kozari
11/28 vs. ATL 4-5 (OT) 4
1 Game Average 4.00

Rob Martell
12/23 vs. TAM 3-4 10
1 Game Average 10.00

Dan Marouelli
11/18 vs. PIT 1-3 25
12/16 vs. TOR 2-9 17
02/22 vs. NJD 2-3 (SO) 12
3 Game Average 18.00

Wes McCauley
02/20 vs. NJD 1-2 15
1 Game Average 15.00

Bill McCreary
11/11 vs. WAS 1-3 21
12/03 vs. NYI 4-7 6
02/17 vs. PHI 3-5 26
3 Game Average 17.67

Mick McGeough
12/17 vs. NJD 1-6 17
1 Game Average 17.00

Dean Morton
11/05 vs. BUF 3-4 (OT) 8
01/09 vs. NYI 3-5 6
2 Game Average 7.00

Dan O'Rourke
10/30 vs. LAK 1-4 14
12/21 vs. FLA 2-3 8
2 Game Average 11.00

Tim Peel
01/11 vs. OTT 4-6 4
1 Game Average 4.00

Brian Pochmara
10/12 vs. PIT 5-6 18
1 Game Average 18.00

Chris Rooney
10/12 vs. PIT 5-6 18
11/18 vs. PIT 1-3 25
2 Game Average 21.50

Rob Shick
01/09 vs. NYI 3-5 6
03/01 vs. PIT 3-4 (SO) 8
2 Game Average 7.00

Craig Spada
10/14 vs. BUF 4-7 17
11/11 vs. WAS 1-3 21
12/19 vs. NYI 3-4 14
02/03 vs. TAM 2-3 18
03/01 vs. PIT 3-4 (SO) 8
5 Game Average 15.60

Kelly Sutherland
12/16 vs. TOR 2-9 17
1 Game Average 17.00

Ian Walsh
10/25 vs. FLA 2-4 4
12/21 vs. FLA 2-3 8
12/29 vs. OTT 0-1 13
1 Game Average 8.33

Dean Warren
10/14 vs. BUF 4-7 17
12/01 vs. BUF 3-4 (SO) 4
2 Game Average 10.50

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Old
03-01-2007, 10:43 PM
  #2
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Fraser calls fair games though, i cant think of a single game this year (off the top of my head) where he was the reason we lost.

btw, excellent work

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Old
03-01-2007, 10:45 PM
  #3
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I wonder if the Rangers are smart enough to keep a league-wide list like this? You know, check out which refs on average tend to call less penalties and also what kind of penalties they tend to call more of.
Then you know how much you can probably get away with during the game. Like based on this list, when a ref like Marouelli is out there, you're probably going to want to be more conservative because he tends to call more. Of course, this is also including fights. I'd just hope that the Rangers would keep tabs on this stuff. I know many teams in the NFL do this.

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Old
03-01-2007, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Fraser calls fair games though, i cant think of a single game this year (off the top of my head) where he was the reason we lost.

btw, excellent work
The game against the debbies that we lost 1-0. There was not one single penalty called against the Devils. The Devils had 4 powerplays.

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Old
03-01-2007, 10:47 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyF27 View Post
Since the other ref thread turned into a flame war between Pittsburgh/Devils/Rangers fans, I thought I'd make a new post.

This is a list of the referees who reffed in each of the games the Rangers have lost this season. First off I never knew there were so many refs. Second Fraiser seems to be the main guy out there whenever the Rangers lose. They've lost 7 games with him out there. 5 with Spada, 4 with Furlatt and a bunch with 3. There seem to be some refs that don't call very much at all (Fraiser) and then some that call a lot (Marouelli, McCreary, Rooney, etc.). Just thought it'd be interesting to compile this list. Maybe if I have some time over the weekend I'll add in the wins too.

Stephane Auger
12/01 vs. BUF 3-4 (SO) 4
01/20 vs. ATL 1-3 10
2 Game Average 7.00

Gord Dwyer
11/26 vs. BUF 2-3 (OT) 20
1 Game Average 20.00

Kerry Fraser
12/03 vs. NYI 4-7 6
12/26 vs. NYI 0-2 14
12/29 vs. OTT 0-1 13
01/16 vs. NJD 0-1 8
02/05 vs. DET 3-4 8
02/06 vs. NJD 2-3 (SO) 8
02/24 vs. CBJ 2-3 9
7 Game Average 9.43


Eric Furlatt
12/19 vs. NYI 3-4 14
01/16 vs. NJD 0-1 8
01/20 vs. ATL 1-3 10
02/24 vs. CBJ 2-3 9
4 Game Average 10.25


Chris Lee
10/10 vs. PHI 2-4 14
10/18 vs. NAS 0-3 14
02/17 vs. PHI 3-5 26
3 Game Average 18.00

Mike Leggo
11/26 vs. BUF 2-3 (OT) 20
12/17 vs. NJD 1-6 17
2 Game Average 18.50


Mike Hasenfratz
11/28 vs. ATL 4-5 (OT) 4
01/11 vs. OTT 4-6 4
02/06 vs. NJD 2-3 (SO) 8
3 Game Average 6.00


Dave Jackson
10/18 vs. NAS 0-3 14
10/25 vs. FLA 2-4 4
2 Game Average 9.00


Marc Joannette
10/10 vs. PHI 2-4 14
11/05 vs. BUF 3-4 (OT) 8
2 Game Average 11.00

Greg Kimmerly
02/20 vs. NJD 1-2 15
02/22 vs. NJD 2-3 (SO) 12
2 Game Average 13.50

Don Koharski
12/23 vs. TAM 3-4 10
02/03 vs. TAM 2-3 18
02/05 vs. DET 3-4 8
3 Game Average 12.00


Tom Kowal
10/30 vs. LAK 1-4 14
1 Game Average 14.00

Steve Kozari
11/28 vs. ATL 4-5 (OT) 4
1 Game Average 4.00

Rob Martell
12/23 vs. TAM 3-4 10
1 Game Average 10.00

Dan Marouelli
11/18 vs. PIT 1-3 25
12/16 vs. TOR 2-9 17
02/22 vs. NJD 2-3 (SO) 12
3 Game Average 18.00


Wes McCauley
02/20 vs. NJD 1-2 15
1 Game Average 15.00

Bill McCreary
11/11 vs. WAS 1-3 21
12/03 vs. NYI 4-7 6
02/17 vs. PHI 3-5 26
3 Game Average 17.67

Mick McGeough
12/17 vs. NJD 1-6 17
1 Game Average 17.00


Dean Morton
11/05 vs. BUF 3-4 (OT) 8
01/09 vs. NYI 3-5 6
2 Game Average 7.00

Dan O'Rourke
10/30 vs. LAK 1-4 14
12/21 vs. FLA 2-3 8
2 Game Average 11.00

Tim Peel
01/11 vs. OTT 4-6 4
1 Game Average 4.00

Brian Pochmara
10/12 vs. PIT 5-6 18
1 Game Average 18.00

Chris Rooney
10/12 vs. PIT 5-6 18
11/18 vs. PIT 1-3 25
2 Game Average 21.50

Rob Shick
01/09 vs. NYI 3-5 6
03/01 vs. PIT 3-4 (SO) 8
2 Game Average 7.00


Craig Spada
10/14 vs. BUF 4-7 17
11/11 vs. WAS 1-3 21
12/19 vs. NYI 3-4 14
02/03 vs. TAM 2-3 18
03/01 vs. PIT 3-4 (SO) 8
5 Game Average 15.60


Kelly Sutherland
12/16 vs. TOR 2-9 17
1 Game Average 17.00

Ian Walsh
10/25 vs. FLA 2-4 4
12/21 vs. FLA 2-3 8
12/29 vs. OTT 0-1 13
1 Game Average 8.33

Dean Warren
10/14 vs. BUF 4-7 17
12/01 vs. BUF 3-4 (SO) 4
2 Game Average 10.50


red=bad ref, blue=good ref, the rest are mediocre/average refs in my opinion.

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Old
03-01-2007, 10:47 PM
  #6
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If the Rangers did not blow three 2 goal leads in a week, and were sitting in the 8th playoff spot, no one would give a damn about the reffing.

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Old
03-01-2007, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hour View Post
The game against the debbies that we lost 1-0. There was not one single penalty called against the Devils. The Devils had 4 powerplays.
Fraser is a "let em play" kinda guy, i remember that game in question, and i even remember being pissed that we didnt get a single call, but i can attribute that to the guy just having a bad game. ive got a lot of respect for Fraser, to me hes the best in the business.

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Old
03-01-2007, 10:49 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Monglobster View Post
If the Rangers did not blow three 2 goal leads in a week, and were sitting in the 8th playoff spot, no one would give a damn about the reffing.
You're probably right, but it's been a problem for years, so I can't really say it wouldn't be a problem. It's just that when the Rangers win, we don't tend to care much about bad reffing than when it costs us an important game.

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03-01-2007, 10:50 PM
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I think based on fact that penalties are called so inconstantly in the first place makes this league a joke in a way. A team plays a certain way one day and get called for 1 or 2 penalties, then go out and play exactly the same the next game and get called 10 times. This type of thing just seems way too common nowadays

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03-01-2007, 10:54 PM
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That has to do with
1. Being so many new refs in the league - many of which call everything they see that looks like obstruction.
2. The two ref system being flawed - A ref in the neutral zone calling a penalty that the ref who's 10 feet away doesn't call.
3. Bias
4. Inconsistant reffing teams - In the NFL you normally see the same reffing crews together. In the NHL every game has two new refs. Sometimes you'll see one ref do two games in a row while his partner is someone different the next game.

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03-01-2007, 11:03 PM
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i think there are 2 pretty major problems that are the root of everything else.

1)Players and Coaches can't say much about the reffing lest they get large fines.
2)Refs don't get fined/disciplined for calling a bad game.

Its their job. if they do it bad, there should be recourse. if a coach is terrible, he gets fired, if a player dogs it, he gets benched. if a ref calls 10 penalties to europeans for every 1 penalty against canadians, he should be reprimanded.

to me thats the problem.

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Old
03-01-2007, 11:08 PM
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That too. Unfortunately in North American sports you can't bash the refs. If this was Europe the teams would be calling for the ref's head after the game.

Unfortunately, you're right, when the refs blow a big time call especially, the most the team gets is an appology. No fine to the ref, no suspension. The refs shouldn't be there to decide the game only to make sure the players don't get out of line and play a fair game. Unfortunately, all too often in the NHL the refs make game changing calls.

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Old
03-01-2007, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
red=bad ref, blue=good ref, the rest are mediocre/average refs in my opinion.
Take Eric Furlatt off your blue list.

The "subjective" penalties:
Out of all 36 NHL referees...

5th most hooking penalties
1st most tripping penalties
15th most holding penalties
6th most interference penalties

Not bad because he calls a lot of penalties, bad because he is so far out of line with the other referees.

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03-01-2007, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abev View Post
Take Eric Furlatt off your blue list.

The "subjective" penalties:
Out of all 36 NHL referees...

5th most hooking penalties
1st most tripping penalties
15th most holding penalties
6th most interference penalties

Not bad because he calls a lot of penalties, bad because he is so far out of line with the other referees.
just going by how i see the guy calling stuff. i like that he tends to call fair/unbiased games. i just dont see the guy going out of his way to call the game against one team or the other. to me thats a good ref.

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Old
03-01-2007, 11:29 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abev View Post
Take Eric Furlatt off your blue list.

The "subjective" penalties:
Out of all 36 NHL referees...

5th most hooking penalties
1st most tripping penalties
15th most holding penalties
6th most interference penalties

Not bad because he calls a lot of penalties, bad because he is so far out of line with the other referees.
is there a list with all this stuff somewhere?

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Old
03-02-2007, 11:45 AM
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