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jagr worship ... or what happened to him?

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Old
03-02-2007, 05:53 PM
  #26
BigE
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I'm not really in favor of trading Jagr unless there is some unforseen return.

At some point you need guys that are here a while to build around and while Jagr might not ever be a 50 goal, 120 point player again I think you'd still be hard pressed to find a 30 goal, 100 point player for $4.5 million a season.

I don't know if continuing to stock pile younger players is really going to change anything and I'm not in favor of the whole mercanaries for higher routine either.

Plus I'm still not convinced that a lot of the guys we have should just be thrown into a fire together. A lot of our kids are going to need development time. I think at this point you go ahead and keep certain guys and look to add youth around them.

I agree that you need players to bridge the gap between now and "the future."

However, any player that "needs the spotlight" and has to be the only show in town is not the type of guy I want on my team while I'm trying to turn it around. If we're trying to change what this team stands for and eliminate that country club atmosphere, a leader that refuses to share this club - whether through explicit or implicit action - needs to be ousted.

I need not even say how tremendous of a talent Jagr is, but at this point I don't think he's worth the trouble. It's almost as if he's brought a "my way or the highway" attitude to the club; we've seen it this year with Ward, and to some extent he and Shanahan's subliminal war in the media.

If I have to choose, I choose Shanny. Something tells me there isn't room for the two of them on this team. Furthermore, it begs an intriguing set of questions:

If Jagr stays are we bringing in more players with that "follower" type mentality? And as a result, do we become so one-dimensional that Jagr (our greatest strength) becomes our greatest weakness?

I've half-heartedly entertained the thought of dealing Jagr at the draft this June. Then again, I wonder if we won't just be better served dealing him next deadline.

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03-02-2007, 06:03 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
I agree with this is as well.

It's not as if Jagr is a problem, it's just that the rest of the team is not deep enough or capable enough to pick up the slack when he doesn't have it.
But you've got an offense that's designed around and dependant on Jagr. At the same time, he wouldn't have it any other way. So if the player demands a strategy that isn't beneficial to the team as a whole, is he indeed "the problem"?

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03-02-2007, 06:09 PM
  #28
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He became the problem, because he is not fully recovered from his surgery. You can see it in his play. He's not 100%. He dosen't dominate games like he used to, his shots don't have power or accuracy. He's playing frustrated and it shows.

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03-02-2007, 06:59 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
But you've got an offense that's designed around and dependant on Jagr. At the same time, he wouldn't have it any other way. So if the player demands a strategy that isn't beneficial to the team as a whole, is he indeed "the problem"?
On his own line, yes, but whatever line he has been on has been the most productive one.

You can't fault him for a lack of offensive production when he's not on the ice.

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03-02-2007, 07:27 PM
  #30
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His shoulder is still hurting, His weight is dowm, which may not be a bad thing, give him a full offseason to re-hab and get stronger i think he will be fine A 100 point season is nothing to sneeze at.
Shanster is not the prolbem Jagr shared the spot light with Mario, so thats not an issue

I think the C is an issue that can reslove itself if we win.
We are not a good team this year, we have been lacking somthing all year.
LAst but not least, GodForbid someone protects the guy when he gets run hard into the boards, Shannahan was the only player who stuck up for anyone this year, that has to stop. We need a policemen. I'm still waiting for someone to go after Hatcher for hitting Jagr in December.

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03-02-2007, 09:13 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by tyuts View Post

and for bonus points ... how has jagr changed from the jagr of old? classic jagr:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDX0p...elated&search=

Damn, Jags used to have the dangles... But he clearly isn't the same player from those highlight videos as he is now. Obviously this means that he needs to grow that nasty mullet back and start doing that salute after he scores goals.

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03-02-2007, 09:28 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
I need not even say how tremendous of a talent Jagr is, but at this point I don't think he's worth the trouble. It's almost as if he's brought a "my way or the highway" attitude to the club; we've seen it this year with Ward, and to some extent he and Shanahan's subliminal war in the media.

If I have to choose, I choose Shanny. Something tells me there isn't room for the two of them on this team. Furthermore, it begs an intriguing set of questions:

If Jagr stays are we bringing in more players with that "follower" type mentality? And as a result, do we become so one-dimensional that Jagr (our greatest strength) becomes our greatest weakness?
I feel the same way about Jagr, couldn't have said it better.

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03-03-2007, 12:21 AM
  #33
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However, any player that "needs the spotlight" and has to be the only show in town is not the type of guy I want on my team while I'm trying to turn it around. If we're trying to change what this team stands for and eliminate that country club atmosphere, a leader that refuses to share this club - whether through explicit or implicit action - needs to be ousted.
Be perfectly honest with you I don't think that's the problem here. I think that's the media's juicy story but I don't think that's the real problem here. The problem here isn't attitude, it's talent. Simply put this team never had a second line center, never had a good defense and never had scoring from the bottom lines.


I don't care if this team is running a boot camp or day care, if you're struggling to get scoring outside of 4 guys and don't have a defense to back it up, you're screwed.

The real problem here is that the NY reporters, like they do with everything else, loves to turn sports into tabloid trash. It's gotten to the point where more than ever the NY media is canablizing it's stars. From ARod to Jagr to whoever, there's more fiction in their work their research. Maybe I'm jaded from working with them for so many years but when stories start looking eerily similar (Arod and Jeter, Jagr and Shanny, etc.) I starts to scream of the same old BS to me.

Quote:
I need not even say how tremendous of a talent Jagr is, but at this point I don't think he's worth the trouble. It's almost as if he's brought a "my way or the highway" attitude to the club; we've seen it this year with Ward, and to some extent he and Shanahan's subliminal war in the media.
Their is no war and plenty of teams win with stubborn stars. However plenty of teams don't win if they no one can score. With all due respect to Nylander and Straka, their magical chariots revert back to the pumpkins of 60 points without Jagr and Shanahan still doesn't have a center and isn't getting any younger.

Jagr is not the problem, the problem with this team is their defense can't score or defend very well, their checkers can't score, their backup can't stop a puck and their prospects, despite the claims of some, weren't really ready.

If This team doesn't have holes, no one gives a crap because we are winning. But we aren't, so now all the psychoanalyzing, all the guessing, all the theories come out and while everyone is so busy trying to read between the lines they aren't actually paying attention to the statements.

Quote:
If I have to choose, I choose Shanny. Something tells me there isn't room for the two of them on this team. Furthermore, it begs an intriguing set of questions:

If Jagr stays are we bringing in more players with that "follower" type mentality? And as a result, do we become so one-dimensional that Jagr (our greatest strength) becomes our greatest weakness?

I've half-heartedly entertained the thought of dealing Jagr at the draft this June. Then again, I wonder if we won't just be better served dealing him next deadline.
In theory yes, but a 38 (going to be 39) year old player is not a better choice to build around and I say that as a HUGE Shanahan fan. Until this team actually has a top young talent, it's got nothing to build around but mirages, no matter how much nicer they might look from a distance.

I don't think the issue is a team of followers, but at the same time you can't have too many cooks in the kitchen either. I think we are overanalyzing Jagr's play with a bunch of theories about what is going on in his head and the fact is the guy obviously isn't 100% healthy and obviously doesn't have a lot of scoring behind him. Those things to me are obvious, everything else is just overthinking.

Now if a killer deal for Jagr came up, sure I'd trade him. But you're not going to get a young stud for him. You're going to get late first round picks (because afterall a team drafting at the top of the draft doesn't want Jagr and a team that is trying to acquire a final piece isn't planning to draft very high).

In theory it all makes sense if we're getting top ten picks and young players, but for a 35 year old Jagr that's not going to happen so that theory goes out the window. To me it's far easier to try and get a better defense (or build one) and try and add some depth than it is to tear the whole thing down again, get some not so amazing picks and try and replace the production that Jagr brings.

Not every team in the league has a complete package superstar/leader. Sometimes instead of trying to make everything perfect you simply go out and try to maximize your strengths and minimize your weakness. This team has not done that yet.

Get some defense, get a healthy Jagr, get some scoring depth and I think we can make a more accurate test for what the problem is. Without those elements, we're just not working with everything we need to make a fair statement.


Last edited by Edge: 03-03-2007 at 12:27 AM.
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03-03-2007, 11:56 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Be perfectly honest with you I don't think that's the problem here. I think that's the media's juicy story but I don't think that's the real problem here. The problem here isn't attitude, it's talent. Simply put this team never had a second line center, never had a good defense and never had scoring from the bottom lines.


I don't care if this team is running a boot camp or day care, if you're struggling to get scoring outside of 4 guys and don't have a defense to back it up, you're screwed.

The real problem here is that the NY reporters, like they do with everything else, loves to turn sports into tabloid trash. It's gotten to the point where more than ever the NY media is canablizing it's stars. From ARod to Jagr to whoever, there's more fiction in their work their research. Maybe I'm jaded from working with them for so many years but when stories start looking eerily similar (Arod and Jeter, Jagr and Shanny, etc.) I starts to scream of the same old BS to me.
Looking back at my post I don't think I stated or implied that Jagr was the only, and most important problem, with the Rangers. He's just one of them.

The reason I chose to talk about Jagr is just because this happens to be a Jagr thread.

To some extent, yeah, the media in New York are tough on their stars, but I don't think my wording was terribly suggestive of an all-out spat between the Jagr and Shanahan. Edge, you've even commented yourself that it's a pretty tense atmosphere and that's really all that I'm getting at.

Quote:
Their is no war and plenty of teams win with stubborn stars. However plenty of teams don't win if they no one can score. With all due respect to Nylander and Straka, their magical chariots revert back to the pumpkins of 60 points without Jagr and Shanahan still doesn't have a center and isn't getting any younger.

Jagr is not the problem, the problem with this team is their defense can't score or defend very well, their checkers can't score, their backup can't stop a puck and their prospects, despite the claims of some, weren't really ready.
That, is where I believe you've largely misinterpreted my entire argument and line of thinking. I'm not focused on the problems with this team, because they're pretty bloody obvious: can't put the puck in the net, can't stop the puck from going in our net, and we don't know how to hold a lead (which is a byproduct of the first two and of the team culture that every person, not just Jagr contributes to).

Jagr is not THE problem, but he is a problem for this club going forward. And again, this is my point.

As much as we need players to build around, I don't think Jagr fits with what we're trying to build as a team. It's very much a "my way or highway" out there and you can see it with everyone he plays with. When he taps his stick he expects the puck and if he doesn't gets pissed to the point where sometimes he starts shouting at his own teammates. This isn't what is best for the future in terms of trying to bring players that are ready into the fold. It stifles everyone's creativity, it lessons their confidence, and as I said earlier it makes a team tremendously one-dimensional.

Quote:
If This team doesn't have holes, no one gives a crap because we are winning. But we aren't, so now all the psychoanalyzing, all the guessing, all the theories come out and while everyone is so busy trying to read between the lines they aren't actually paying attention to the statements.
Easy, easy, easy. You know perfectly well that I've never been on the "lets ignore our problems" bandwagon. If you're going to make comments about others you'd best do it in a separate post.

Speaking of reading between the lines though, and perhaps I'm at fault for this too, but you might have done a better job of reading my post instead of generalizing.


Quote:
In theory yes, but a 38 (going to be 39) year old player is not a better choice to build around and I say that as a HUGE Shanahan fan. Until this team actually has a top young talent, it's got nothing to build around but mirages, no matter how much nicer they might look from a distance.
I'm not saying we build around Jagr. Quite frankly I don't think we should be building around any one player. Not Shanny, certainly not Jagr, and not anybody.

I'd rather have guys in the dressing room that can help build a team, rather than guys in the dressing room that we're forced to build around.

Quote:
I don't think the issue is a team of followers, but at the same time you can't have too many cooks in the kitchen either. I think we are overanalyzing Jagr's play with a bunch of theories about what is going on in his head and the fact is the guy obviously isn't 100% healthy and obviously doesn't have a lot of scoring behind him. Those things to me are obvious, everything else is just overthinking.
But it is an issue of followers. For a guy like "Jagr" to be happy he's got to have people that will do what he says without question. If you refuse to play the way he wishes while you're playing with him he gets angry, shows you up with a look or shake of the head (I know you've seen it), and that is only deconstructive for a hockey club.

Watch Marcel Hossa play. It's like watching a guy walking on egg shells. He's so happy to be on the first line he's doing his best to stay the **** out of Jagr's way, and feed him the puck EVERY opportunity he gets.

If Hossa represents the young player in any of the countless potential examples we might see in the next few years, is that what you really want him to be learning? As I said, it's stifling.

Lastly, I will acknowledge and agree that you can't have too many strong personalities on a team. Too many cook's in the kitchen, as you say, is just asking for trouble. There are some cooks that want to cook, and others that want to run the show. You can't have too many of either. The worst is when you have both in one cook - a Jagr for example.

Quote:
Now if a killer deal for Jagr came up, sure I'd trade him. But you're not going to get a young stud for him. You're going to get late first round picks (because afterall a team drafting at the top of the draft doesn't want Jagr and a team that is trying to acquire a final piece isn't planning to draft very high).

In theory it all makes sense if we're getting top ten picks and young players, but for a 35 year old Jagr that's not going to happen so that theory goes out the window. To me it's far easier to try and get a better defense (or build one) and try and add some depth than it is to tear the whole thing down again, get some not so amazing picks and try and replace the production that Jagr brings.
The point isn't to trade him and try to get something for him, really. I'm not so much caught up in the package as I am caught up in just getting him off the team. That, I believe, is going to allow us to move forward a lot more quickly than keeping him here to bridge the gap, which will ultimately continue on for longer than most of us would like. You follow me here? This is another point I want to emphasize, and I'm sure you know what I mean.

Quote:
Not every team in the league has a complete package superstar/leader. Sometimes instead of trying to make everything perfect you simply go out and try to maximize your strengths and minimize your weakness. This team has not done that yet.

Get some defense, get a healthy Jagr, get some scoring depth and I think we can make a more accurate test for what the problem is. Without those elements, we're just not working with everything we need to make a fair statement.
I don't disagree that those are things that would help this team. However, getting rid of Jagr might get us further in terms of long term outlooks and that's what I'm concentrating on.

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03-04-2007, 01:12 AM
  #35
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...

When Jagr has problem with his shoulder this season, he is trying to make some good assists.

But he has players like Nylander and Hossa in his line and they aren't able to score from JJ passes.

In match with STL JJ could have 4 ASSITS but Nylander was out of scoring form and Hossa didn's score from break-away :-(

Jagr hadn't summer trainnig for two last summers, he is out of form, he has problems with shoulders, he hasn't natural scorer in his line this season ... and he is still in TOP 10. HOW MANY PLAYERS ARE ABLE TO PLAY AS GOOD AS JAGR WITH SO MANY BAD FACTORS?

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03-04-2007, 03:53 AM
  #36
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Jagr gave NYR playoffs after all the money spent, Messier promises etc.

He came in to a rebuilding team, and led them to the playoffs.

Rangers have other issues... Only problem with Jagr is his shoulder. Dunno how much you guys got used to it, but over the years on of his trademark moves was step-in, pop the puck over the defenseman's stick, wrist the thing at rocket speed... not seeing that this season.


Anyway, Jagr's shoulder problems would've been much easier to handle had Sather not misread the issues on this team...

- Rucinsky and Sykora were more valuable than most though on a team lacking quality scorers
- D issues were not addressed... Rozsival and Tyutin have been the only two guys who've been consistent pretty much all season. Both of them, at this point, are #3 defensemen at best (Tyutin with potential for more of course).
- Sather went in with JJ, Nylander, Straka, Shanny and Prucha as the only guys who really are top-6 players. His bottom-6, no offense, but as far as goal scoring goes, are one of the worst in the league. They can do their job defensively, but that's not enough on this team
- basically, this team has one line + Shanahan, average D and good goaltending. No depth (I mean, vs STL Avery's line was pretty much the 2nd line... who's gonan be scared of that??)

Anyway... Jagr'll get better... His body is beaten up, there is NO player over the last 15 years that took more beating than him. BUT, there're also very few players tougher than him.
Next season though, Sather's gotta make sure of a 2nd line center, some depth and an addition of a quality defenseman.

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03-06-2007, 12:00 AM
  #37
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Looking back at my post I don't think I stated or implied that Jagr was the only, and most important problem, with the Rangers. He's just one of them.

The reason I chose to talk about Jagr is just because this happens to be a Jagr thread.
No worries at all there, I gotcha. For me though I just really don't think Jagr is even a blip. As funny as it sounds I don't think personalities are the problem here, I think it's the holes the team has.

Quote:
To some extent, yeah, the media in New York are tough on their stars, but I don't think my wording was terribly suggestive of an all-out spat between the Jagr and Shanahan. Edge, you've even commented yourself that it's a pretty tense atmosphere and that's really all that I'm getting at.
You didn't word it like that at all, what I'm saying is that I think we have to be very careful that the media doesn't create a situation. Tension to me comes from not winning,


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That, is where I believe you've largely misinterpreted my entire argument and line of thinking. I'm not focused on the problems with this team, because they're pretty bloody obvious: can't put the puck in the net, can't stop the puck from going in our net, and we don't know how to hold a lead (which is a byproduct of the first two and of the team culture that every person, not just Jagr contributes to).

Jagr is not THE problem, but he is a problem for this club going forward. And again, this is my point.
I understand what you mean, I just don't think Jagr is that big of a problem going forward. To me Jagr can be far more of a helper going forward than a problem. Is there a risk? You bet, but the thing is you're not going to get a player on Jagr's level without that drawback.

Quote:
As much as we need players to build around, I don't think Jagr fits with what we're trying to build as a team. It's very much a "my way or highway" out there and you can see it with everyone he plays with. When he taps his stick he expects the puck and if he doesn't gets pissed to the point where sometimes he starts shouting at his own teammates. This isn't what is best for the future in terms of trying to bring players that are ready into the fold. It stifles everyone's creativity, it lessons their confidence, and as I said earlier it makes a team tremendously one-dimensional.
I think most of that stems more from the fact that Jagr feels the pressue of knowing that if he doesn't score, no one else will. If this team had scorers and were able to probably take some of that pressure off, I really just do not see it being an obstacle.

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Easy, easy, easy. You know perfectly well that I've never been on the "lets ignore our problems" bandwagon. If you're going to make comments about others you'd best do it in a separate post.

Speaking of reading between the lines though, and perhaps I'm at fault for this too, but you might have done a better job of reading my post instead of generalizing.
Think you're reading too much into what I'm saying there, I'm not upset. But the reality is that what we're doing is psycho analyzing Jagr. From a performance standpoint he's scoring 100 points but when we discuss what he wants/needs/what players he needs around him I think we are reading too much between the lines.

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I'm not saying we build around Jagr. Quite frankly I don't think we should be building around any one player. Not Shanny, certainly not Jagr, and not anybody.

I'd rather have guys in the dressing room that can help build a team, rather than guys in the dressing room that we're forced to build around.
Thing is you always have someone you end up building around, even if you didn't deliberatly go with the mindset of building around him. I don't think the Rangers are forced to get players Jagr wants and I think that's been seen in their moves.

An obviously unhealthy Jagr is still scoring at a 100 point pace so for all the talk about having to do things a certain way the addition of guys like Avery and Shanahan, etc. really hasn't been the cause of any decline.

So basically, my point is that for all the talk about what Jagr needs, he's going out and doing his thing and if the problems aren't based around a decline because of not giving into those needs that we're kind of debating a point that isn't really the issue.

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But it is an issue of followers. For a guy like "Jagr" to be happy he's got to have people that will do what he says without question. If you refuse to play the way he wishes while you're playing with him he gets angry, shows you up with a look or shake of the head (I know you've seen it), and that is only deconstructive for a hockey club.
Maybe so but I wonder how much of that is do to the team's struggles and the pressure he feels from knowing he HAS to score or else the team can't.

I honestly think it has less to do with what Jagr needs to be happy and more to do with the lack of scoring depth the team has. Will Jagr ever be the greatest captain ever? Probably not, but I really just do not see that as being a big problem.

Quote:
Watch Marcel Hossa play. It's like watching a guy walking on egg shells. He's so happy to be on the first line he's doing his best to stay the **** out of Jagr's way, and feed him the puck EVERY opportunity he gets.

If Hossa represents the young player in any of the countless potential examples we might see in the next few years, is that what you really want him to be learning? As I said, it's stifling.
Well Hossa is finally starting to get his act together as well so if it takes him walking on eggshells for now to learn than so be it. He's getting Jagr the puck and Jagr is setting him to score, I see little wrong with that. Hossa really isn't going to generate it on his own so if that's what it takes to get Hossa to be effective than so be it.

The thing is different players need different things to succeed. Another young player might need an approach Shanahan will take, someone like Hossa is playing the best hockey of his career with Jagr and the eggshells approach.

Once again I feel like we're trying to come up with a theory that the numbers simply don't back up. We can theorize that young players shouldn't be brought up this way and that Hossa is being stifled but when all is said and done he's playing the best hockey of his career.

We can say that Jagr needs certain things to be happy, but when all is said and done he seems more frustrated with the lack of scoring depth on the team, not necessarily that the team isn't just his buddies. On top of that the only thing seeming to stop him from more points is his shoulder, not his motivation.


Quote:
The point isn't to trade him and try to get something for him, really. I'm not so much caught up in the package as I am caught up in just getting him off the team. That, I believe, is going to allow us to move forward a lot more quickly than keeping him here to bridge the gap, which will ultimately continue on for longer than most of us would like. You follow me here? This is another point I want to emphasize, and I'm sure you know what I mean.
I got ya the first time, I just don't agree with it. I don't think Jagr is hindering this team. I also am not a fan of getting him off the team for a package to move forward. I don't see what is exactly being hindered here? The team's problem isn't that it can't move forward, it's that it can't score. Even if Jagr was gone, the kids we have aren't going to be playing with him because their lower end forward.

I have no illusions that Jagr is god's gift to the captaincy but even if I erase him from the picture the only thing that changes is that this team can't score at all and Henrik Lundqvist starts losing him mind with a 2-1, 3-2 decisions.


Quote:
I don't disagree that those are things that would help this team. However, getting rid of Jagr might get us further in terms of long term outlooks and that's what I'm concentrating on
I don't really see it E.

I see a team that has bottom 6 forward prospects and good goalie prospect and good defensive prospects. I don't think Jagr is so adversly influecing of effecting this team in the locker room that it can't intergrate those pieces and build a team.

I guess I'm just not really seeing the problems stemming from Jagr being big problems.

When we watch this team, what we see are certain problems that would not be any better if Jagr weren't on the team. In other words for what this team needs to do, Jagr to me is not of consequence to doing them.

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Old
03-06-2007, 08:39 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Corto View Post
JAnyway, Jagr's shoulder problems would've been much easier to handle had Sather not misread the issues on this team...

- Rucinsky and Sykora were more valuable than most though on a team lacking quality scorers
- D issues were not addressed... Rozsival and Tyutin have been the only two guys who've been consistent pretty much all season. Both of them, at this point, are #3 defensemen at best (Tyutin with potential for more of course).
- Sather went in with JJ, Nylander, Straka, Shanny and Prucha as the only guys who really are top-6 players. His bottom-6, no offense, but as far as goal scoring goes, are one of the worst in the league. They can do their job defensively, but that's not enough on this team
- basically, this team has one line + Shanahan, average D and good goaltending. No depth (I mean, vs STL Avery's line was pretty much the 2nd line... who's gonan be scared of that??)
1) No. I don't think this team misses Rucinsky or Sykora. They added Shanahan and Prucha is going to score 20 goals this season. Nylander and Straka are having excellent years.

2) Yes. I said all along that they did not uprgrade the defense. I do think that Mara helps and Girardi has been a nice find.

3) Yes and no. The Rangers were hoping that Hall would provide offense. They thought that Hollweg and Betts would improve offensively. They didn't.

4) Not sure what your point is. You mentioned five guys for the top six spots. The lack of a second line center was obvious early on.

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03-06-2007, 10:04 AM
  #39
SML
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I think the shoulder is keeping him from being what he was last year. I also think the Rangers utter failure to even attempt to protect him weighs in heavily in his mind. Game after game, we let the Jay Pandolfo's and Brendan Witt's of the league alter the way our superstar plays the game and it makes me sick. You saw it last night, Jagr comes down Witt's side, sees Witt, and pulls up at the blueline. C'mon... We should have somebody taking that guy to the penalty box with him so Jagr can have his space. Is Brendan Witt an All-star? Is Brendan Witt a hall of famer? No. Then why the hell are we letting this guy have his way with our guy who is?

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03-06-2007, 04:53 PM
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Its amazing. The guy is still 11th in league scoring, yet I've seen so much abuse to the guy just today alone.

One guy calls him a locker room cancer and a baby.

Another guy says he's worthless now.

Someone starts a thread saying hes the lazyest player in the NHL

A poster claims that Jagr is horrendus defensively

Another post says that Jagr does nothing to make his teammates better.


What the hell are people smoking? Just because a 35 year old Jagr with a bad shoulder can't hit 120+ points two years in a row?

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