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Sean Couturier is already one of the better defensive forwards in the NHL

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Old
04-14-2014, 03:37 PM
  #726
Classicnamesup
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Despite the fanboyism, nobody has had a quality response to the offensive numbers.

If you guys would read the posts you could have saved yourselves the outrage

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04-14-2014, 03:38 PM
  #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Despite the fanboyism, nobody has had a quality response to the offensive numbers.

If you guys would read the posts you could have saved yourselves the outrage
..and you've yet to say anything that makes any sense...

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04-14-2014, 03:40 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
..and you've yet to say anything that makes any sense...
Guy said he will be on pace for 51 points in a couple weeks.

Never came into fruition. Not even close in fact.

Not sure how much more I can simplify. 39 <<< 51.

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04-14-2014, 03:41 PM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Guy said he will be on pace for 51 points in a couple weeks.

Never came into fruition. Not even close in fact.

Not sure how much more I can simplify. 39 <<< 51.
Wow, great observation! A guy on HFboards made a false prediction, guess that means Couturier's offensive game will never get there. Well done, man. Don't think we would have realized how ****** Couturier is without you to help.

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04-14-2014, 03:43 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by whatthef View Post
Have you never heard of Toews, Datsyuk, or Forsberg? (all great players don't get me wrong but not the Gods HFboards would have you believe)
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Originally Posted by Steve Holt View Post
Except Couturier isn't nearly as good as the players you just mentioned. Their performance actually merits the level of praise they get.
This. Made me laugh

Proves how overrated Couturier is when someone compares him to to those players. Datsyuk can score 13 goals (Couturier's career high) with the knob of this stick.

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04-14-2014, 03:44 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Wow, great observation! A guy on HFboards made a false prediction, guess that means Couturier's offensive game will never get there. Well done, man. Don't think we would have realized how ****** Couturier is without you to help.
To be fair, I am sure you would have realized. You do get to watch him not put up points in 75% of his games, not me.

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04-14-2014, 03:50 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
To be fair, I am sure you would have realized. You do get to watch him not put up points in 75% of his games, not me.
You should try watching sometime

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04-14-2014, 03:51 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by THall4 View Post
This. Made me laugh

Proves how overrated Couturier is when someone compares him to to those players. Datsyuk can score 13 goals (Couturier's career high) with the knob of this stick.
Who the **** compared him to Datsyuk offensively? Defense, yes, he is just as good/better. Not one single, sane, person would ever say he is even on the same planet as Datsuyk offensively. I don't know where that is coming from.

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04-14-2014, 03:55 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by THall4 View Post
This. Made me laugh

Proves how overrated Couturier is when someone compares him to to those players. Datsyuk can score 13 goals (Couturier's career high) with the knob of this stick.
?

No one compared him to any of those players. Someone said he was the most overrated player on the site, the other poster said "Have you never heard of Toews, Datsyuk, or Forsberg? etc"

Meaning they're the most overrated on the site, not comparing Couturier to them...

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04-14-2014, 03:55 PM
  #735
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Couturier 1,179:01 ES TOI, 31 ESP, +1 is close to or better than these players in even strength scoring per minute at one even strength point every 38.03 minutes.

Zajac, 1,265:06, 33 ESP, +3

Ennis 1,245:45, 27 ESP, -25

Backstrom 1,243:08, 34 ESP, -20

Kesler 1,241:02, 26 ESP, -15

Jordan Staal 1,235:38, 26 ESP, +2

Zubrus 1,230:36, 26 ESP, +1

B Richards 1,228:14, 32 ESP, -8

Killorn 1,206:00, 33 ESP, +8

Plekanec 1,205:43, 30 ESP, +11
Gionta 1,200:12, 32 ESP, +1

Vrbata 1,180:00 ES TOI, 30 ESP, - 6
Vermette 1,192:50, 29 ESP, Even

D Sedin 1,175:09, 29 ESP, Even

Kadri 1,159:16, 32 ESP, -11

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Old
04-14-2014, 03:56 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Pacioretty has the same ESTOI and has far, far better numebers
Cool story, bro. We all know that. Why do you keep bringing up Pacioretty? Because someone mentioned Eller? He's a player who plays a somewhat similar style, and people were comparing a lot last offseason to Couturier. I am super confused. You are being ridiculous.

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04-14-2014, 04:54 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Despite the fanboyism, nobody has had a quality response to the offensive numbers.

If you guys would read the posts you could have saved yourselves the outrage
Not every player starts producing at the young age of 21 in the best league in the world. He literally just turned 21 too a few months ago. If he is still putting up 39 points/season by age 24-25, then I might be a little worried about his offensive potential. But beings that he plays on the third line and gets just about all of his special teams minutes on the PK while still shutting down top lines, I'm sure most flyers fans could live with that.

However, in a few years I really believe that he puts up north of 50 while still playing in the same role. Just my $.02

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04-14-2014, 05:11 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by PensBandwagonerNo272 View Post
Overrated, plain and simple.
Oh you don't say??? Care to explain why? You've neglected to do that when every Flyers fan has asked you.

Hmmmmmmm.

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04-14-2014, 05:17 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
Not every player starts producing at the young age of 21 in the best league in the world. He literally just turned 21 too a few months ago. If he is still putting up 39 points/season by age 24-25, then I might be a little worried about his offensive potential. But beings that he plays on the third line and gets just about all of his special teams minutes on the PK while still shutting down top lines, I'm sure most flyers fans could live with that.

However, in a few years I really believe that he puts up north of 50 while still playing in the same role. Just my $.02
No argument here. I wanted him at the draft. Have been disappointed with the offensive numbers so far but he is already a quality player and presumably will get better.

This guy just told me to "come back in a couple weeks when he is on pace for 51 points" and I gave him all season to get there. Flyers fans seem to be offended by this for some reason.

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04-14-2014, 05:19 PM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
No argument here. I wanted him at the draft. Have been disappointed with the offensive numbers so far but he is already a quality player and presumably will get better.

This guy just told me to "come back in a couple weeks when he is on pace for 51 points" and I gave him all season to get there. Flyers fans seem to be offended by this for some reason.
Nah. What's upsetting are your nonsense arguments, like "Look at ESTOI!"

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04-14-2014, 05:22 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Nah. What's upsetting are your nonsense arguments, like "Look at ESTOI!"
In response to "look at his TOI!"

So I looked and you guys didn't like what I found.

Praise Couturier or GTFO in this thread it seems. You guys should move this topic to the Flyers board if that is the case

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04-14-2014, 05:24 PM
  #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
In response to "look at his TOI!"

So I looked and you guys didn't like what I found.

Praise Couturier or GTFO in this thread it seems. You guys should move this topic to the Flyers board if that is the case
No, what you found makes zero sense because you weren't adding any situational context to his ESTOI. You weren't looking at zone starts or competition. All it does is make you look desperate to crap on Couturier in any way you can.

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04-14-2014, 05:34 PM
  #743
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He plays against the weakest defensive players?

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04-14-2014, 05:39 PM
  #744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
He plays against the weakest defensive players?


If that's how you want to spin "plays against he strongest offensive players in the league while starting in his own end," sure, go for it. You seem to be in denial about how difficult a situation that is. There aren't any other players of his age who are doing that and also producing 39 points.


His most common competition this year: Sidney Crosby. I guess you think playing Crosby to a standstill is a ho-hum achievement?

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04-14-2014, 05:40 PM
  #745
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No response to evidence showing his ES scoring this season is very similar to a lot of good players and better than Kesler, Staal and Plekanec?

Thought not.

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04-14-2014, 05:58 PM
  #746
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The three centres Couturier played the most vs this season:

Crosby
Backstrom
Tavares

His Ozone starts were 41.7%. (19th hardest amongst centres.)

His Rel QoC was 1.423. (7th hardest amongst centres.)

And he was a + player.

He played the most PK minutes of any forward in the NHL this year; 5th most of any NHL player including Dmen. (having the best Corsi on of any PKer with more than 2 minutes a game... and being joint 4th in SH scoring.)

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04-14-2014, 06:24 PM
  #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post


If that's how you want to spin "plays against he strongest offensive players in the league while starting in his own end," sure, go for it. You seem to be in denial about how difficult a situation that is. There aren't any other players of his age who are doing that and also producing 39 points.


His most common competition this year: Sidney Crosby. I guess you think playing Crosby to a standstill is a ho-hum achievement?
Just to be technical, Crosby had 3 goals 1 assist and a +2 vs Philly this year. Little better than a standstill.

My post was about points though. You can tell because the guy I was responding to mentioned points and then in my response I mentioned points.

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04-14-2014, 06:41 PM
  #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Just to be technical, Crosby had 3 goals 1 assist and a +2 vs Philly this year. Little better than a standstill.

My post was about points though. You can tell because the guy I was responding to mentioned points and then in my response I mentioned points.
Now tell me how many of those goals came while Couturier was on the ice.


I'm simply urging you to apply even a shred of critical thinking here instead of cherry picking stats and assuming we'll be fooled by the exceptionally flawed picture you're painting.

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04-14-2014, 06:51 PM
  #749
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Haven't read through the thread, so this probably has been commented on a million times already ...

But I come away impressed with Couturier's defensive zone work every time I see him. He's good at the subtle stuff that disrupts the offense, whether it be simply positioning himself in the right spot or anticipating where the puck is going to go to take away that passing lane. He's what I'd hoped Sutter could be for the Pens (not huge offense, but great defensive ability).

Offensively, though, I can't say I've ever seen a game of his where he displayed the kind of skills that suggested a big offensive upside. Jordan Staal-type production looks to be his upper most offensive potential. And even then, he doesn't seem to have Staal's goal scoring ability.

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04-14-2014, 07:18 PM
  #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Now tell me how many of those goals came while Couturier was on the ice.


I'm simply urging you to apply even a shred of critical thinking here instead of cherry picking stats and assuming we'll be fooled by the exceptionally flawed picture you're painting.
What is flawed or cherry picked? Or is points a flawed and cherry picked stat? This is a revolutionary discovery if true.

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