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Old
04-14-2014, 06:39 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
I still like the idea from a previous thread of 3rd OA + Gordon (50% retained) for Hanzal + rights to Vrbata. Again, doubtful the Yotes would make a deal like this given their timeline, but I think the value is in their favour in terms of long-term gain.
I'd do it if we changed it slightly. Add Gager and we'll add a 2nd.

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04-21-2014, 08:56 PM
  #77
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The max I would go is Korpi + 2 2nds + Reider. But I would probably just try to flip Korpi for a younger more cost-controlled RFA w/ upside like Lars Eller or Jason Zucker now.
Would Phoenix be interested in this possible offer should Lupul agree to be traded to the Coyotes?




Lauri Korpikoski - $2.5m AV @ 3 years (Real Salary: 2.3M, $2.7M, $3.0M)
Michael Stone - $1.15 AV @ 2 years (Real Salary: $1.2M & 1.45M)
+
2nd round draft pick (2015)

Total Cap Hit: $3.65M
Total Real Salary: $3.5M, $4.15M, $3.0M



Joffrey Lupul @ 20% retained
$4.2M @ 4 years (Real Salary: $4.2M, $5.4M, $4.2M, $3M)

Not counting Stone, the cap hit and salary retained swap between Lupul and Korpikoski moving on would have Phoenix pay an additional:

Additional Cap hit: $1.7M @ 4 years
Additional Real Salary: $1.9M, $2.7M, $1.2M, $3.0M

Does this work for Phoenix as a financial and asset deal?

The Coyotes upgrade the offense at minimal cap hit and real salary increase over four years when moving out Korpikoski’s salary and the Leafs retaining 20% of Lupul’s salary.

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04-21-2014, 09:04 PM
  #78
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^ Certainly works from a financial sense. Not sure if I like having to give up both Korpi and Stone to get Lupul, though.

I think it's a fair proposal overall. But certainly something to ruminate on.

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04-21-2014, 09:11 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
We need a high-scoring (1st line) forward, aka Paccioretty; or a top-3/4 pick that will be there for a long time.

Not sure if you have one of those to spare; but that's what it would take.
We'll give you Rene Bourque as you can see by the playoffs he is a high quality star PF top 5 in the league essentially.

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04-21-2014, 09:15 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
What if we add Stone instead of the 2nd?

So the deal would be:

Yandle
Hanzal
Stone
Korpikoski

for

Perron
1st
Eberle
Marincin

That should improve your top-4 D by a very healthy amount, and Hanzal would give the 2nd line 2-way C that the Oilers have lacked for a long time.
Value is there but the Oilers can only afford to give up 1 of Perron or Eberle

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04-21-2014, 09:36 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
Would Phoenix be interested in this possible offer should Lupul agree to be traded to the Coyotes?




Lauri Korpikoski - $2.5m AV @ 3 years (Real Salary: 2.3M, $2.7M, $3.0M)
Michael Stone - $1.15 AV @ 2 years (Real Salary: $1.2M & 1.45M)
+
2nd round draft pick (2015)

Total Cap Hit: $3.65M
Total Real Salary: $3.5M, $4.15M, $3.0M



Joffrey Lupul @ 20% retained
$4.2M @ 4 years (Real Salary: $4.2M, $5.4M, $4.2M, $3M)

Not counting Stone, the cap hit and salary retained swap between Lupul and Korpikoski moving on would have Phoenix pay an additional:

Additional Cap hit: $1.7M @ 4 years
Additional Real Salary: $1.9M, $2.7M, $1.2M, $3.0M

Does this work for Phoenix as a financial and asset deal?

The Coyotes upgrade the offense at minimal cap hit and real salary increase over four years when moving out Korpikoskiís salary and the Leafs retaining 20% of Lupulís salary.
Korpikoski, and Stone, and a 2nd, huh? That's a tough pill to swallow, even with the 20% retention. That's a lot of cheap, cost controlled, effective assets moving out. Loops hasn't been the healthiest guy.

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04-21-2014, 09:37 PM
  #82
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Would do unspeakable things to get Hanzal on the Rangers

Pure hypothetical but would something around Kreider interest Phoenix

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04-21-2014, 09:49 PM
  #83
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Pure hypothetical but would something around Kreider interest Phoenix
Not for Hanzal, no. Maloney would want Stepan.

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04-21-2014, 09:53 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
Would do unspeakable things to get Hanzal on the Rangers

Pure hypothetical but would something around Kreider interest Phoenix
Yes, but not for Hanzal. Kreider would be a very good starting point were PHX in full rebuild mode, but we aren't and won't be for the foreseeable future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
Would Phoenix be interested in this possible offer should Lupul agree to be traded to the Coyotes?


Lauri Korpikoski - $2.5m AV @ 3 years (Real Salary: 2.3M, $2.7M, $3.0M)
Michael Stone - $1.15 AV @ 2 years (Real Salary: $1.2M & 1.45M)
2nd round draft pick (2015)


Joffrey Lupul @ 20% retained $4.2M @ 4 years (Real Salary: $4.2M, $5.4M, $4.2M, $3M)

Does this work for Phoenix as a financial and asset deal?

The Coyotes upgrade the offense at minimal cap hit and real salary increase over four years when moving out Korpikoskiís salary and the Leafs retaining 20% of Lupulís salary.
:shake head

Lupul has missed 10+ games 6 of the last 7 years. Trends like that generally don't improve as a player ages. Downgrade the pick (a lot) and retain enough cash for us to buy a bunch of that deer antler spray and we might have something.

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04-21-2014, 09:57 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
Would do unspeakable things to get Hanzal on the Rangers

Pure hypothetical but would something around Kreider interest Phoenix
Love Kreider, but we'd probably be looking more at Stepan for Hanzal.

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04-22-2014, 11:06 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Korpikoski, and Stone, and a 2nd, huh? That's a tough pill to swallow, even with the 20% retention. That's a lot of cheap, cost controlled, effective assets moving out. Loops hasn't been the healthiest guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
Lupul has missed 10+ games 6 of the last 7 years. Trends like that generally don't improve as a player ages. Downgrade the pick (a lot) and retain enough cash for us to buy a bunch of that deer antler spray and we might have something.
I was going by IPreferPi’s offer of Korpi + 2 2nds + Reider for Lupul to gauge value.

Based on this proposal the picks were downgraded to 1 second round draft pick.

Of course, both parties should be happy with the offer, so let me counter proposal. IPreferPi mentioned that he would like a more controllable RFA asset for Korpikoski such as Lars Eller.

How about the Leafs add an RFA in Peter Holland who is younger than Eller by one year to satisfy the loss of Korpikoski?

In addition, the Leafs retain further salary from Lupul at 38% to make it close to $2 million per season plus other assets to obtain Stone and the 2015 2nd round pick.

The new offer would look like this.



Lauri Korpikoski - $2.5m AV @ 3 years (Real Salary: 2.3M, $2.7M, $3.0M)
Michael Stone - $1.15 AV @ 2 years (Real Salary: $1.2M & 1.45M)
+
2nd round draft pick (2015)

Total Cap Hit: $3.65M
Total Real Salary: $3.5M, $4.15M, $3.0M



Joffrey Lupul @ 38% retained
$3.255M @ 4 years (Real Salary: $3.255M, $3.348M, $3.255, $1.86M)

Peter Holland RFA (23 year old center)
+
3rd round draft pick 2014

So the Leafs would take on $1.955 M in additional cap space/real salary over the next four years at $7.98M in total salary and cap hit.

The Leafs traded a 2014 second round pick for Peter Holland so we would include the Coyotes 2015 second round pick in this deal, and give the 3rd round pick in 2014 to the Coyotes as an additional sweetener to the deal.

The Coyotes would get some scoring up front with Lupul, and to offset his injuries the Leafs would take on the additional salary and cap hit to make it easier for the Coyotes.

The deal offered by IPreferPi’s of Korpi + 2 2nds + Reider is better for the Leafs at less retained, but for Stone the Leafs would be more fair in the salary retention and additional asset offer. Would the Coyotes be interested in the new deal with Stone included?

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04-22-2014, 11:16 AM
  #87
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Well, I did say that 2 2nds + Reider would be the *maximum* I would willing to offer - and I probably would've had to been really despondent to offer that for just Lupul, haha.

That being said

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
The new offer would look like this.



Lauri Korpikoski - $2.5m AV @ 3 years (Real Salary: 2.3M, $2.7M, $3.0M)
Michael Stone - $1.15 AV @ 2 years (Real Salary: $1.2M & 1.45M)
+
2nd round draft pick (2015)

Total Cap Hit: $3.65M
Total Real Salary: $3.5M, $4.15M, $3.0M



Joffrey Lupul @ 38% retained
$3.255M @ 4 years (Real Salary: $3.255M, $3.348M, $3.255, $1.86M)

Peter Holland RFA (23 year old center)
+
3rd round draft pick 2014

So the Leafs would take on $1.955 M in additional cap space/real salary over the next four years at $7.98M in total salary and cap hit.

The Leafs traded a 2014 second round pick for Peter Holland so we would include the Coyotes 2015 second round pick in this deal, and give the 3rd round pick in 2014 to the Coyotes as an additional sweetener to the deal.

The Coyotes would get some scoring up front with Lupul, and to offset his injuries the Leafs would take on the additional salary and cap hit to make it easier for the Coyotes.

The deal offered by IPreferPi’s of Korpi + 2 2nds + Reider is better for the Leafs at less retained, but for Stone the Leafs would be more fair in the salary retention and additional asset offer. Would the Coyotes be interested in the new deal with Stone included?
I think this amended deal gives us quite a bit more to think about. Holland is an intriguing prospect that definitely fits the criteria of what Maloney wants to acquire this offseason - 23-24 young, cost-controlled forward with upside.


Last edited by IPreferPi: 04-22-2014 at 11:23 AM.
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04-22-2014, 11:48 AM
  #88
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That proposal is extremely reasonable. It's fair.

I personally don't like it much.

The point of acquiring Eller is to move Ribeiro to wing. Getting a top PKer on one of the top PK units in the league, who's big, throws a lot of hits, wins face-offs and brings a lot of what Ribeiro is missing to the center position for the Coyotes.

Acquiring Lupul would be in order to put him on Ribeiro's wing. Which is fine. Getting Ribeiro (as a center) better linemates is definitely a good strategy, too (and probably more realistic than moving him to wing, honestly).

However, if we keep Ribeiro at C, then there is no room for Holland. Plus, Holland doesn't really bring anything we're lacking up front. He's not really of any interest to me. I can't see any way in which he'd improve our situation. As a result, his addition to the proposal, even if it improves "value" doesn't make it any more appealing to me (personally speaking).

I'd say drop Holland and the third, and we'll drop one of our assets. But then I know such changes move the value too heavily into Arizona's favor. Ultimately, I guess I just don't see Lupul as a solution, and as a result, I'm hesitant to give up fair value.

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04-22-2014, 12:03 PM
  #89
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However, if we keep Ribeiro at C, then there is no room for Holland. Plus, Holland doesn't really bring anything we're lacking up front. He's not really of any interest to me. I can't see any way in which he'd improve our situation. As a result, his addition to the proposal, even if it improves "value" doesn't make it any more appealing to me (personally speaking).
Leafs HFers, has Holland been utilized at wing this year? If so, I think his speed, good shot, and shoot-first mentality would be a good compliment to Vermette + Boedker.

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04-22-2014, 12:32 PM
  #90
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I would be interested in Korpikoski on the Jets for the right price. I'm guessing that not getting salary back is important?

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04-22-2014, 01:07 PM
  #91
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I would be interested in Korpikoski on the Jets for the right price. I'm guessing that not getting salary back is important?
Not necessarily, but it depends on the roster player. I would prefer a younger player and/or pick coming back.

What would you offer?

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04-22-2014, 01:17 PM
  #92
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How About

To Toronto Maple Leafs:
Lauri Korpikoski
Michael Stone


To Phoenix:
Jeoffrey Lupul
Prospect (Sam Carrick or Tyler Biggs)

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04-22-2014, 01:37 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by IPreferPi View Post
Not necessarily, but it depends on the roster player. I would prefer a younger player and/or pick coming back.

What would you offer?
I'm finding it hard to come up with a comparable. The Jets picked up Frolik last off season and I would consider them somewhat similar. Frolik put up 3 seasons in Florida averaging close to 40 points, but then played on the 3rd or 4th line for the Hawks and focused on defense and PK.

I wouldn't be looking for LK to fill a defensive or PK role, but would want him for that 3/4 line role to improve the bottom 6.

Frolik cost a 3rd and a 5th, so I would want to start around there. I don't think the Coyotes are looking for D, so guys like Postma and Redmond are likely not important. On the prospects side I would be looking to include guys like Cormier, Klingberg, Olsen, etc. And balance the picks accordingly.

Not sure if this would be worth it to Phoenix or not though. Frolik seems like a comparable trade so that's where I would start. Maybe there is another, I don't know.

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04-22-2014, 01:59 PM
  #94
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I'm finding it hard to come up with a comparable. The Jets picked up Frolik last off season and I would consider them somewhat similar. Frolik put up 3 seasons in Florida averaging close to 40 points, but then played on the 3rd or 4th line for the Hawks and focused on defense and PK.

I wouldn't be looking for LK to fill a defensive or PK role, but would want him for that 3/4 line role to improve the bottom 6.

Frolik cost a 3rd and a 5th, so I would want to start around there. I don't think the Coyotes are looking for D, so guys like Postma and Redmond are likely not important. On the prospects side I would be looking to include guys like Cormier, Klingberg, Olsen, etc. And balance the picks accordingly.

Not sure if this would be worth it to Phoenix or not though. Frolik seems like a comparable trade so that's where I would start. Maybe there is another, I don't know.
Frolik is a fine comparable. I don't know too much about Olsen, and Cormier always seems to be injured. But how about Klingberg and a 3rd/4th for Korpi?

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04-22-2014, 02:13 PM
  #95
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I'd do it if we changed it slightly. Add Gager and we'll add a 2nd.
What if it were just changed to Gagner instead of Gordon? Gagner at 33% retention (3.2 mil, basically same hit as Hanzal) + 3rd overall for Hanzal and UFA rights to Vrbata?

Again, fully realize the timeline situation in terms of competitiveness, but for all of Gagner's flaws he should be able to put up 45-50 points. Nowhere near the defensive presence, average on a good day, but there'd be no drop off offensively.

Legit question, what would a realistic guess be as to the chances Vrbata re-signs? 80%? And for what? Given age and productivity, would 4 years x 4.75 be a decent guess?

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04-22-2014, 02:20 PM
  #96
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Frolik is a fine comparable. I don't know too much about Olsen, and Cormier always seems to be injured. But how about Klingberg and a 3rd/4th for Korpi?
That would be something that I would personally go for.

As an aside, why would he be available?

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04-22-2014, 02:23 PM
  #97
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Legit question, what would a realistic guess be as to the chances Vrbata re-signs? 80%? And for what? Given age and productivity, would 4 years x 4.75 be a decent guess?
Right now I'd say it's 50/50. Maloney didn't say anything specific about Vrbata in his presser, but said in general that the entire team needs more hunger, more energy, and that some players may have gotten complacent from being in Phoenix for too long. This is just speculation, but I'm thinking Maloney may be gearing up to hold a harder line with Vrby during contract negotiations, especially since his offense disappeared during crunch time and has already been historically streaky.

My hope is that Vrby resigns for no more than 4.5M AAV for 4-5 years. I think if he demands more than 5M he'll be on the market.

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04-22-2014, 02:30 PM
  #98
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That would be something that I would personally go for.

As an aside, why would he be available?
Despite having a down year on offense and being not as effective overall, Korpi isn't a bad player - he's still a very good defensive forward who's very valuable on the PK, and ordinarily should be a 30-40 point winger. But he's a complimentary piece that may be redundant now with the arrival of Erat and McMillan.

With our need to somehow get more offense and energy into our forward group (either through trade or through bringing up youngsters like Lessio and Domi), and with Maloney's comments in his end-of-the-year presser about longtime Coyotes who may have gotten too complacent being in Phoenix, we might as well try to move Korpi while he still has decent trade value.

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04-22-2014, 02:42 PM
  #99
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Despite having a down year on offense and being not as effective overall, Korpi isn't a bad player - he's still a very good defensive forward who's very valuable on the PK, and ordinarily should be a 30-40 point winger. But he's a complimentary piece that may be redundant now with the arrival of Erat and McMillan.

With our need to somehow get more offense and energy into our forward group (either through trade or through bringing up youngsters like Lessio and Domi), and with Maloney's comments in his end-of-the-year presser about longtime Coyotes who may have gotten too complacent being in Phoenix, we might as well try to move Korpi while he still has decent trade value.
Thanks Pi, that's great. I like Korpi, and think he would be a nice add to the Jets bottom 6. If the Coyotes have some guys though coming up on ELC's though, that can change things. Are those guys ready do you think?

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04-22-2014, 02:52 PM
  #100
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Thanks Pi, that's great. I like Korpi, and think he would be a nice add to the Jets bottom 6. If the Coyotes have some guys though coming up on ELC's though, that can change things. Are those guys ready do you think?
Samuelsson needs a year in Portland to get his skating up to par, and to adjust to pro speed. The two likeliest candidates are Lessio and Domi; Lessio ended up making the team out of TC this season but was sent down after an early 3 game losing streak, while Domi was like the final cut IIRC. Reider is also a possibility.

With Lessio having a good year on a bad Portland team and Domi improving his offensive production across the board in London (and not being AHL-eligible means he'd have to return to the OHL next season if he doesn't make the Yotes roster), I think they're both ready. However, Tippett is notoriously very conservative with his usage of forward prospects, while Maloney reiterated that the Yotes are following Detroit's lead when it comes to prospect development (low and slow). So they're going to have to make a strong push for their roster spot come September. I'm hoping that Domi makes it because he really can't improve his play any further in London and the risk of him regressing due to complacency is high. But I wouldn't be surprised if Lessio again makes the squad ahead of him.

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