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Old
04-14-2014, 08:20 PM
  #276
FLYguy3911
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Kreider waited 3 days to sign when they won 2 years ago. So if he doesn't sign tomorrow we can panic.

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04-14-2014, 08:30 PM
  #277
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Im not really sure why the Flyers fans want Flyers to desperately sign this kid NOW. Why would you want a year burned off on an entry level deal for possibly 4 games? Chances are he wouldnt get much playing time in the playoffs anyways...Wait till after the season Philly!!.. encourage Ghost to go on a binge this week and enjoy his championship!!!

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04-14-2014, 08:36 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinnyjimmy08 View Post
Im not really sure why the Flyers fans want Flyers to desperately sign this kid NOW. Why would you want a year burned off on an entry level deal for possibly 4 games? Chances are he wouldnt get much playing time in the playoffs anyways...Wait till after the season Philly!!.. encourage Ghost to go on a binge this week and enjoy his championship!!!
Nobody gave a crap until the words out of his mouth today were that as he understands, he can wait and become a FA. Nobody was thinking that he would just wait it out and pick his own destination until he uttered that thought. Now I don't care if it costs them 20 million, sign him.

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04-14-2014, 08:37 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinnyjimmy08 View Post
Im not really sure why the Flyers fans want Flyers to desperately sign this kid NOW. Why would you want a year burned off on an entry level deal for possibly 4 games? Chances are he wouldnt get much playing time in the playoffs anyways...Wait till after the season Philly!!.. encourage Ghost to go on a binge this week and enjoy his championship!!!
Just because he signs now doesnt mean he will play. He would be able to practice with the Black Aces and the team though, watch the team play, and usually college UFAs sign abit after they are done. They dont usually if ever wait till the summer. Just because he signs now doesnt mean he would lose a year.

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04-14-2014, 08:38 PM
  #280
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Nevermind...I just read over the CBA...

Apparently we only hold onto his rights for 4 years if he doesn't graduate.

Quote:
College Players.

(i) If a Player drafted at age 18 or 19 is a bona fide college student at the time
of his selection in the Entry Draft, or becomes a bona fide college student
prior to the first June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft, and
remains a bona fide college student through the graduation of his college
class, his drafting Club shall retain the exclusive right of negotiation for
his services through and including the August 15 following the graduation
of his college class. The Club need not make a Bona Fide Offer to such
Player to retain such rights.

(ii) If a Player drafted at age 18 or 19 is a bona fide college student at the time
of his selection in the Entry Draft, or becomes a bona fide college student
prior to the first June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft, and does
not remain a bona fide college student through the graduation of his
college class, his drafting Club shall retain exclusive rights for the
negotiation of his services until the later of: (a) the fourth June 1 following
his selection in the Entry Draft, or (b) thirty (30) days after NHL Central
Registry receives notice that the Player is no longer a bona fide college
student; provided that if the Player ceases to be a bona fide college student
on or after January 1 of an academic year and the Player: (1) is in his
fourth year of college and has commenced his fourth year of NCAA
eligibility, or (2) is in his fourth year of college and is scheduled to 19
graduate from college at the end of his fourth year, then in the
circumstances described in (1) or (2), the Club shall retain the exclusive
right of negotiation for such Player's services through and including the
August 15 following the date on which he ceases to be a bona fide college
student. The Club need not make a Bona Fide Offer to such Player to
retain such rights.
So yeah, if he graduates, we have through August 15th, 2015 to get him under contract. He really has all the leverage in the world.

Here's hoping he decides to join the organization.

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Old
04-14-2014, 08:40 PM
  #281
FLYguy3911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinnyjimmy08 View Post
Im not really sure why the Flyers fans want Flyers to desperately sign this kid NOW. Why would you want a year burned off on an entry level deal for possibly 4 games? Chances are he wouldnt get much playing time in the playoffs anyways...Wait till after the season Philly!!.. encourage Ghost to go on a binge this week and enjoy his championship!!!
Would you rather burn a year off his ELC or risk losing his rights?

If it does come down to burning a year off his ELC, just look at it like he was on loan for the regular season. If he were playing Junior hockey, he would have been signed last year anyway and this would have been the first year of his deal.

It's part of the process when you draft college kids. When they are as good as this kid, they hold the leverage.

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04-14-2014, 08:41 PM
  #282
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Not too worried until he announces he's not turning pro. Money won't be an issue. People were as concerned with JVR, and it took him a week or so to sign. However, once Ghost says he's staying for his senior year, he has no reason to sign until going UFA.

Only other points really are this:

Those who are worried, the thing I'd be thinking about is whether or he or his advisors/parents think this is a good situation. It may have nothing to do with playing time or money (especially money). We're always trading high draft picks and signing UFA's and not pulling defensemen from the Phantoms. We've been through all the names. We all see that Gus has been sandbagged, and Manning (from juniors) has been pushed down the depth chart. These are guys who have been signed as UFA's, told they'd get an opportunity, and then don't get it. Very rarely have the Flyers gone into a pre-season with jobs to be won on defense in recent years. They've also often tried signing other undrafted college free agent defensemen and have been unsuccessful. No one knows how word gets around and it affects others' views on the organization. If that's selfish, could be. They've already been promised the moon once before, that's how they ended up at that college.


The other point is, for some of those reasons, this is why the Flyers don't let draftees screw around in college. If they think they're potential NHL material, they get them in camp ASAP. Similar concerns were brought up last year when the Flyers passed on signing Ghost.

Also, burning the year off the ELC is sometimes part of the deal. Ghost would still be RFA, it's simply a minor inconvenience.


Last edited by GKJ: 04-14-2014 at 08:46 PM.
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04-14-2014, 08:42 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
Nevermind...I just read over the CBA...

Apparently we only hold onto his rights for 4 years if he doesn't graduate.



So yeah, if he graduates, we have through August 15th, 2015 to get him under contract. He really has all the leverage in the world.

Here's hoping he decides to join the organization.
Not sure I'd say he has all of the leverage, one nasty injury or concussion and his career becomes in jeopardy.

If he signs right now, he's guaranteed 3 (?) years?

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04-14-2014, 08:44 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinnyjimmy08 View Post
Im not really sure why the Flyers fans want Flyers to desperately sign this kid NOW. Why would you want a year burned off on an entry level deal for possibly 4 games? Chances are he wouldnt get much playing time in the playoffs anyways...Wait till after the season Philly!!.. encourage Ghost to go on a binge this week and enjoy his championship!!!
Well after the article that was released today people just want him signed to have him signed, they don't care where he plays. I don't pretend to know what he meant by that because only him & those close to him really know what his intentions are. I tend to think they mean nothing & he'll be signing soon but who really knows. The moment he signs it will eliminate any doubt & we can move on as he'll embarking on his career with the Flyers.

That said if this drags on past the weekend with no word of what he intends to do then I may start to get a little worried.

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Old
04-14-2014, 08:47 PM
  #285
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It's just a weird comment/reply. That's obviously on his mind or he wouldn't have said it.

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04-14-2014, 08:54 PM
  #286
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It's just a weird comment/reply. That's obviously on his mind or he wouldn't have said it.
I dunno, the question sort of led him there. He was just honest.

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Old
04-14-2014, 09:18 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I dunno, the question sort of led him there. He was just honest.
See that's the thing; the question didn't lead him there at all IMO.

The question was about leverage on contract negotiations, obviously in wake of the championship win, nothing was even said, in that particular question, about returning or not returning to college. He just kind of threw that in there, when graduating, becoming a free agent and choosing a different team had little to do with negotiation leverage.

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04-14-2014, 09:31 PM
  #288
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See that's the thing; the question didn't lead him there at all IMO.

The question was about leverage on contract negotiations, obviously in wake of the championship win, nothing was even said, in that particular question, about returning or not returning to college. He just kind of threw that in there, when graduating, becoming a free agent and choosing a different team had little to do with negotiation leverage.
There's leverage there too.

"I demand you burn a year off my ELC or I return to Union, graduate and sign with someone else on August 15, 2015."

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04-14-2014, 09:37 PM
  #289
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There's leverage there too.

"I demand you burn a year off my ELC or I return to Union, graduate and sign with someone else on August 15, 2015."
Yes but he chose to bring that up. The question was obviously in reference to him having more leverage after the championship win, and he chose to suggest that scenario as an option; it's obviously something he's thought about is my point.

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04-14-2014, 09:38 PM
  #290
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I hate to enter this level of analysis of a quote from a 20 year old, but it's not like he gave a very confident or assertive response, either: "...you can pick a different team sometimes...".

Instead, I'd be worried if he said, "I guess you could look at it like that, but you also have the opportunity to explore free agency if you graduate, so there's benefits both ways". That's a much more direct statement that shows an actual understanding of his options that he can only get by considering them. His actual statement is much less worrisome to me.

I think he's just parroting what his agent has told him. That's is pretty natural. All hockey players are parrots. Part of the "aw shucks" charm they have, I guess.

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04-14-2014, 09:40 PM
  #291
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And how does he have more leverage now?

He gets the same amount either way, right? Pretty stupid question. Wouldn't surprise me if he just heard the reporter ask about the benefit of signing now, and he gave a parroted statement of what he remembered his agent telling him.

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04-14-2014, 09:52 PM
  #292
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And how does he have more leverage now?

He gets the same amount either way, right? Pretty stupid question. Wouldn't surprise me if he just heard the reporter ask about the benefit of signing now, and he gave a parroted statement of what he remembered his agent telling him.
Technically speaking, he has no agent.

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04-14-2014, 09:54 PM
  #293
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Technically speaking, he has no agent.
Agent/advisor, they're the same thing, and it doesn't change that he's been telling Ghost his options from the start.

Just saying it's very possible that he's just giving an answer that he remembers his agent telling him about even if he hasn't given it a second's consideration.

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04-14-2014, 09:58 PM
  #294
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Well after the article that was released today people just want him signed to have him signed, they don't care where he plays. I don't pretend to know what he meant by that because only him & those close to him really know what his intentions are. I tend to think they mean nothing & he'll be signing soon but who really knows. The moment he signs it will eliminate any doubt & we can move on as he'll embarking on his career with the Flyers.

That said if this drags on past the weekend with no word of what he intends to do then I may start to get a little worried.
what article was released today?

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04-14-2014, 09:59 PM
  #295
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And how does he have more leverage now?

He gets the same amount either way, right? Pretty stupid question. Wouldn't surprise me if he just heard the reporter ask about the benefit of signing now, and he gave a parroted statement of what he remembered his agent telling him.
He could be making sure the Flyers come with the max offer of $900K because they can offer lower if the want to but I'd wager that wouldn't be the case.

He could want to get some performance bonuses in there.

Lastly he could want a year burnt off his ELC so he only has to wait two years until his second contract as opposed the standard three.

He has some options to potentially get himself more money but my guess is the last option would interest him the most if he indeed was trying to pull a power move here.

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04-14-2014, 10:00 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Agent/advisor, they're the same thing, and it doesn't change that he's been telling Ghost his options from the start.

Just saying it's very possible that he's just giving an answer that he remembers his agent telling him about even if he hasn't given it a second's consideration.
Yeah, it's nitpicking on my part, but it could be an important distinction. We don't know who's advising him...if it's someone at his school, or his mom with a PDF of the CBA.

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04-14-2014, 10:14 PM
  #297
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So the thought now is that because Orr...I mean Gus doesn't play is the reason Ghost made this comment?

Yikes - taking the gus love to a whole new level.

FTR - he was pretty below to average the last 2 games.

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04-14-2014, 10:16 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
He could be making sure the Flyers come with the max offer of $900K because they can offer lower if the want to but I'd wager that wouldn't be the case.

He could want to get some performance bonuses in there.

Lastly he could want a year burnt off his ELC so he only has to wait two years until his second contract as opposed the standard three.

He has some options to potentially get himself more money but my guess is the last option would interest him the most if he indeed was trying to pull a power move here.
Right, but all those options are available next year for him except the last one, but I'm not sure how that's considered "financial leverage".

When I think of financial leverage in terms of NHL contracts, I'm thinking of negotiating salary figures. I guess I just think it's an odd way of asking a question.

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Yeah, it's nitpicking on my part, but it could be an important distinction. We don't know who's advising him...if it's someone at his school, or his mom with a PDF of the CBA.
True, but from my experiences in hockey, many college players have a person they pay for advice.

Regardless, whoever it is has probably presented him with all his options:

A) Sign now
B) Sign over the summer
C) Sign after next season
D) Don't sign and become a FA

So my thinking is he just quickly recalled the the option that contrasted the most with the one he was asked about to illustrate how his position doesn't really change between now and next year as far as negotiation goes.

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04-14-2014, 10:16 PM
  #299
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I really think its about where his heart is.

He wants to play in the NHL thats for sure.

Does he want the minutes and a big pay day, or does he want to be on a successful team.

Justin Schultz could of been on a playoff bound/stanley cup contender in Anaheim. Maybe as a 5th or 6th defensemen. He chose to go to Edmonton, knowing full well they werent a SC conteder.

Does Ghost want the playing time and money, or does he want to compete.

The choice is up to him, and there is no point in fretting until its made.

edit: Obviously Alt before Wilcox. All I am saying is, we do have other D prospects that could benefit our team greatly. I doubt Holmgren lets Ghost hit FA without trading his rights, if it were to come to that.

We still have Morin and Hagg available. And from all accounts I've heard, Wilcox might be a solid defensive D'man down the road. Plus there is Alt to consider.

I dont think the Flyers let his rights go for nothing, if that would be the case.


Last edited by CerpinTaxt: 04-14-2014 at 10:26 PM.
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04-14-2014, 10:19 PM
  #300
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When did the Flyers fan base become 90% 14 yr old girls?

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