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So the quebecois vs. Europeans debate is brought back again...

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Old
03-03-2007, 12:40 AM
  #26
Senateurs
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
Dandenault is not a good player. He cant make a first pass, he cant shoot and his speed is overrated.
And his partner is a 5'7'' dwarf that creates more turnovers than Patrice "Breeseby" Brisebois. Bouillon wasn't good enough to crack the Preds lineup when they weren't making the playoffs. He comes back here, hits a couple of guys along the board and he's rewarded with a 3year 5,4M$ contract.

I heard a lot of people in the medias and 110% say that they won the cup in 93 because they had 13 québécois in the line-up... What they seem to forget is that they were first and foremost great players before beeing francos or from QC. The best forward was Damphousse, the best D-man was Desjardins and Roy was in net. Nowadays, only the support cast is from Qc (Bégin, Lapierre, Bouillon, etc).

MTL needs to go after Brière this summer, not Marc Chouinard or Alain Nasreddine..

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03-03-2007, 12:52 AM
  #27
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The Habs need Quebecois players like Martin Lapointe and Ian Lapperiere that already battle hard for their respective teams and would probably give that little extra for the Habs.

Overall the Habs need more Canadian grit, be it from Quebec, Ontario, Alberta or elsewhere.

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03-03-2007, 01:01 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by chaditude View Post
And his partner is a 5'7'' dwarf that creates more turnovers than Patrice "Breeseby" Brisebois. Bouillon wasn't good enough to crack the Preds lineup when they weren't making the playoffs. He comes back here, hits a couple of guys along the board and he's rewarded with a 3year 5,4M$ contract.

I heard a lot of people in the medias and 110% say that they won the cup in 93 because they had 13 québécois in the line-up... What they seem to forget is that they were first and foremost great players before beeing francos or from QC. The best forward was Damphousse, the best D-man was Desjardins and Roy was in net. Nowadays, only the support cast is from Qc (Bégin, Lapierre, Bouillon, etc).

MTL needs to go after Brière this summer, not Marc Chouinard or Alain Nasreddine..
Exactly. If you are going to get a quebec player....get a good one. Not a frigging name just to shut up the media.

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03-03-2007, 02:16 AM
  #29
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What's with Bouillon this year? Seriously he used to be one of my favorite. But he keeps making mystakes after mystakes. It has become ridiculous. The thing is, he skates better than ever, he has more jump to his play than last year. On the other hand he's nervous as Hell. It's like he's on crack.

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03-03-2007, 02:31 AM
  #30
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Habs need some tough Quebecers like Scott Melanby and Matt Lombardi.

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Old
03-03-2007, 02:51 AM
  #31
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Doesn't matter to me where they are from as long as they can play

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03-03-2007, 03:29 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Doesn't matter to me where they are from as long as they can play
Exactly. I don't give a **** where they are from, as long as they are good. People have to realize that there will continue to be less Quebec players on the Canadiens simply because their player ratio is shrinking due to the increased number of Americans and Europeans coming into the league.

Logically, the arguement that players should play for Montreal only because they are Quebecois is rediculous. When you think about it, is sounds alot like discrimination towards Europeans.

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03-03-2007, 05:03 AM
  #33
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Problem when they talk about it in the medias is they always endup mentionning names like Dupuis, Bélanger, Hamel, etc... bunch of 3rd and 4th liners


the Other thing is, when they talk about Euros, it's always Samsonov and/or Kovalev... I mean, do you think coaches have issues with guys like Vanek, Frolov, Kopitar, Malkin, Hossa, etc...

Bring us the good ones, the ones that put points on the board and this ridiculous debate will end.

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03-03-2007, 08:07 AM
  #34
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It's never been a Francos VS Euros debate. It's always been a question of having a better mix of guys. Anyway, we'll see who makes it far in this year's playoff and draw our own conclusions.

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03-03-2007, 08:28 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Jean-Guy Drouin View Post
It's imperative to have more Canadians in that team. Including lot of quebecois. We wont win anything with that kind of ethnicity in that team.
Yes, multiculturalism is certainly a very bad thing...

(This is assuming you were not sarcastic)

And by the way, I'm French Canadian as well.

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Old
03-03-2007, 08:49 AM
  #36
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The anglos vs frenchies stuff is garbage and for simple minded who can't speak of anything else. Now it's being rejuvenated as a frenchies vs euros, what a diffrence.
Why is it this debate only happens with the Canadiens fans? I never hear the Calgary fans saying we need more Westerners. Or God forbid a Phoenix Coyotes fan saying we need more Americans.

This kind of thinking should've been done away with 100 years ago. And I'm astonished that it's still even discussed. And I've always thought on Montreal as an open minded city.

You Canadiens fans should receive any good player with open arms, regardless of ethnicity. Especially as a number of players want to sign with teams in warmer climates, or in cities with less taxes.

Could it be that the media and fans who only want Quebecois on the Canadiens handcuffed Gainey before the trading deadline? Or have even handcuffed management since 1993? Would all the close minded media and fans have been screaming at Gainey if he traded for Zubrus? Tkuchuk? et al?

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Old
03-03-2007, 09:02 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by caseygraves View Post
Why is it this debate only happens with the Canadiens fans? I never hear the Calgary fans saying we need more Westerners. Or God forbid a Phoenix Coyotes fan saying we need more Americans.

This kind of thinking should've been done away with 100 years ago. And I'm astonished that it's still even discussed. And I've always thought on Montreal as an open minded city.

You Canadiens fans should receive any good player with open arms, regardless of ethnicity. Especially as a number of players want to sign with teams in warmer climates, or in cities with less taxes.

Could it be that the media and fans who only want Quebecois on the Canadiens handcuffed Gainey before the trading deadline? Or have even handcuffed management since 1993? Would all the close minded media and fans have been screaming at Gainey if he traded for Zubrus? Tkuchuk? et al?
I can't tell for western Canada but it happens in different shape and forms in the US. A lot of people will tell you that black QBs can't win and black coaches couldn't win before this year. To me this is all horse ****.

Then again the european vs canadian thing still is going on in Canada. I'm not sure if it's such a big deal in the west but you still hear about it once in a while. To me a geat european player = a great north american player and a terrible euro = a terrible north american.

Quebec media know fully well that this debate works well all the time and sells a whole lot.

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03-03-2007, 09:14 AM
  #38
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It's pretty simple. The same people who hate Don Cherry and his love for good ol' Canadian boys do the exact same thing for good ol' Québec boys.


Both are ********.

And so is anyone characterizing a few bad apples as the french media.

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Old
03-03-2007, 09:15 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
What's with Bouillon this year? Seriously he used to be one of my favorite. But he keeps making mystakes after mystakes. It has become ridiculous. The thing is, he skates better than ever, he has more jump to his play than last year. On the other hand he's nervous as Hell. It's like he's on crack.
Bouillon is kinda like that deep safety in football that hits people but gets beat all the time in the passing game.

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Old
03-03-2007, 09:22 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by caseygraves View Post
Why is it this debate only happens with the Canadiens fans? I never hear the Calgary fans saying we need more Westerners. Or God forbid a Phoenix Coyotes fan saying we need more Americans.
'Cause in reality knowing that we're definately in a minority compared to the rest of Canada and US that they want to protect our guys by giving them the chance. By the way, would there be as many Francophone coaches in the league right now if it wasn't because they were given the chance by the Habs first?

Obviously, in our case we choose to remember what we want. Either that we had a large number of francos in 93, or that the Canes didn't have that much Euros when they won. I think that we love hitting on the same people and they usually deserve it but then I think the debate has evolved in the "we want only francos" to we would like more North American that would care about the franchise". Again, it should evolve to "we would like to have players that cares", but step by step we might come there.

But as dumb as some "journalists" are we're obviously not talking about the Ovechkin, Elias and others type of players like we're not playing about the Francos that openly stated they didn't want to play here.

It started with the absence of real full time scouts in Quebec and the acknowledgment that some were discovered by other teams while we went another way. But then, understand that since 93, we've made 1 step forward, 2 steps back and it's pretty normal to start questioning what might happening, and in the process find something interesting but then find something not so either.

But it's all about winning. If we had won something for the past 10 days, that debate would be stupid. Now, well the ones who brought it back have at least some reason to do so.

For me, it's players who cares, plain and simple. Players with grit and character and obviously we're definately not there yet.

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Old
03-03-2007, 09:25 AM
  #41
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I personally don't care much for the scouting thing in Quebec. I wish the Canadiens would do like the Sabres and get game tapes rather spending huge dollars following players on the road for no reason.

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03-03-2007, 09:28 AM
  #42
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i wouldn't make it analogous to a black QB. that is clearly prejudice. the argument being blacks aren't smart enough or qualified enough to be leaders. the smarter ones in the mtl media AND they do include anglophones saying this BTW - is that the habs have always been most successful with a healthy contingent of local and NA players. the argument is (and it's based on what we've all seen on the ice) , is that based on the passion and history of this team and this place -european players may not have the same desire / drive / pride to win this team, a cup. Is it a correct observaton? perhaps not but results show there is indifference and lack of leadership on this team.

pj stock all last week kept repeating 'european player just don't get it, they don't get the importance of the cup, of playing here' and this from a guy who played on the fringes in the NHL. i think he is generalizing but they are not comments to be completely dismissed

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03-03-2007, 09:30 AM
  #43
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What's the big deal about wanting local talent on your favourite club? It's not racism. Having a guy who grew up cheering for the team he is now playing for is a great idea. You don't have to assume that someone hates Europeans because he would prefer a Quebecer to play for the Habs. Just as long as you don't make generalisations about Europeans (i.e. soft, no heart). I guess what I'm saying is I'm all in for bringing in local (Quebecois) talent to the Habs.

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Old
03-03-2007, 09:35 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Haddock View Post
It's pretty simple. The same people who hate Don Cherry and his love for good ol' Canadian boys do the exact same thing for good ol' Québec boys.


Both are ********.

And so is anyone characterizing a few bad apples as the french media.
Agree and don't. I believe that when you're beginning to say that all french guys are sissies 'cause they were visors and all european players don't care 'cause they have no heart, that's diffamatory and should be reprimanded. But being Pros locals and talking about having a greater mix, I don't think it's that bad. I understand they might be missing the point, but I can see why they would bring it. Cause obviously something for the past 10 years haven't worked that well.

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Old
03-03-2007, 09:39 AM
  #45
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I wouldn't mind rounding up 20 french canadians to play for the habs only because it seems like they always play their best hockey against montreal. It never fails. Then again when we get french players they tend to play like garbage for us. So I say we get 20 players from Ontario-->west and maritimers.

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Old
03-03-2007, 09:40 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by emb24 View Post
i wouldn't make it analogous to a black QB. that is clearly prejudice. the argument being blacks aren't smart enough or qualified enough to be leaders. the smarter ones in the mtl media AND they do include anglophones saying this BTW - is that the habs have always been most successful with a healthy contingent of local and NA players. the argument is (and it's based on what we've all seen on the ice) , is that based on the passion and history of this team and this place -european players may not have the same desire / drive / pride to win this team, a cup. Is it a correct observaton? perhaps not but results show there is indifference and lack of leadership on this team.

pj stock all last week kept repeating 'european player just don't get it, they don't get the importance of the cup, of playing here' and this from a guy who played on the fringes in the NHL. i think he is generalizing but they are not comments to be completely dismissed
I don't see how that's different from the black QB perspective. Guys like Forsberg and a bunch of other europeans have shown that hey care more about the cup than a bunch of north americans. Just like a bunch of Quebec and Canadian players seem to not get it either as PJ says.

Watching Dandenault play makes you wonder if he really gets it. It's easy to blame Koivu and Markov all the time. That's why a lot of people come to the conclusion that europeans don't have IT. Repeat this over and over again that europeans don't get the job done and you'll get a lot of people who believe it.

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03-03-2007, 09:51 AM
  #47
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Exactly. If you are going to get a quebec player....get a good one. Not a frigging name just to shut up the media.
I agree.

Whether there is such thing as local player intensity or not, the problem is simply a question of demographics. With the globalization of hockey, the Habs would be shooting themselves in the foot to disproportionately look for what local (quebecois? canadian ?) hockey players are left on the market while other teams go after the top talent everywhere in the world.

Here a 3 Football League Championships:

1) Spain:
1st place- F.C. Barcelone: 15 foreign players
Last place- Nastic Tarragona: 7 foreign players

2) Italy:
1st place-Inter Milan: 21 foreign players
Last place- Ascoli: 8 foreign players

3) France:
1st place- Lyons: 12 foreign players
Last place- Sedan: 7 foreign players


Habs management would act at their own peril to follow the advice of a couple of whiners on 110% who make Don Cherry look like the Humanitarian of the Year Award Winner.

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Old
03-03-2007, 09:59 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB View Post
I agree, how about we ban Europeans in Montreal?
Or have a maximum of 2 and they need to speak French with a Quebec accent, and able to say ******** more often than J. Demers.
That's tabarouette or tabarnouche

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Old
03-03-2007, 10:00 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Do you think it could help the team with more homeboys?

Its weird that the french media brought back this debate after this game. Kovalev, Kots, Bonk, Plekanec, Streit played really well tonight and Bouillon, Begin, Dandenault and even tender didnt do much.
It's not a debate it's actually just called a waste of time. People that can think for themselves understand that just because members of the media discuss things, it has no impact on managements decisions. It's like HF except they sadly get paid to do what they do while we spend our time here for free.

The simple answer is the team would benefit from better players, no matter where they are from. If you get better players and they are from Quebec then all the better.

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03-03-2007, 10:18 AM
  #50
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That's tabarouette or tabarnouche
I think Demers is cute

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